I want to study the 'real' Bible

[Eliyahu]

I am wrote:

like max said...time to evolve. whether the bible is even true or not is irrelevant. it's outdated even if it's true.

Infinite wisdom has no expiration date. The Torah and the New testament both contain absolute and infinite wisdom IMO ...one just has to know how to extract that wisdom..

Without knowledge of kabbalistic science I'm afriad the bible is a meaningless pile of paper.
Therefore it's pretty much no suprise to me that most people could care less about the text..
It's nothing more than a bunch of sunday school stories without the knowledge to decipher the hidden meanings within.

IMO that is what makes it so beautiful. It's the most perfectly hidden secret knowledge that exists. Cellestial jewels and treasures of wisdom LITERALLY HIDDEN right in front of everyones face.
To me it's incredible that some thing so profound could exist and in such a completely intact state and yet so many are 100% oblivious to this "secret."

To me it's pretty silly how worked up some people get over the meer mention of the word "bible"................

I'm not sure peole realize that buddhism, hinduism and Islamic religions are pretty darned strict as well. When it comes down to it all ancient texts have some questionable moralistic tones. To sight a glaring example, do buddhist, hindu or islamic cultures reguard women with any higher respect than hebrews? I think not.

For example every one is always going on about how supposedly awesome the Egyptains were....I doubt they were chill hippies though most likely they would put you to death for whatever offense they deemed worthy of such punishment.....Also, I'm pretty sure the Egyptians waged wars and commited massacres.
But somehow they are considered more peaceful and loving than hebrews.....????
:roll:

So does this mean we should just burn all the ancient texts that offend our 21st century PC sensibilities?

Perhaps we should just start over and create a new 100% politically correct religious text that just appeals to everyone and pleases every whim and desire there is? This way no ones delicate feelings will be offended.

IMO You can always tell when your dealing with something really powerful when it seems like the whole "world" is against it and it creates such a "stir". As we all know..... popular opinion is usually wrong, culture is not your friend etc.........

John 15:19:
If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

Matthew 10:22:
And you shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endures to the end shall be saved.

Maxx wrote:

**** And for those of you who still believe in the bible, if there are indeed people here who do, I challenge you to defend your bible's notion of Hell. What kind of monster would punish It's creation with ETERNAL TORTURE????????????????? Step right up, folks, defend your hell. ****

Yeah that's super easy....the word sheol in hebrew means grave or pit...in the modern bible it has been translated to render "HEll".... so another matter of misinterpretations. In other words don't believe everything your told by preachers.

There is a "gehonnim" wich is sort of like hell...it's a limbo place where impure spirit's dwell..... but hardly anyone qualifies to spend and eternity there, maybe hitler, jeff dahmner, pol pot or someone like that... Generally the sentence for gehonim is 12 months...



So HELL is just a made up, pretend greek Idea that was made up to scare people into paying money to the church...

 

[The Maxx]

I am wrote:

like max said...time to evolve. whether the bible is even true or not is irrelevant. it's outdated even if it's true.

Eliyahu is in plain text, my responses in bold:


Infinite wisdom has no expiration date. The Torah and the New testament both contain absolute and infinite wisdom IMO ...one just has to know how to extract that wisdom..

Yeah, but I'd rather not have to sift through ten billion pages of boring, mindless worship to get to the nuggets of truth. Truth is everywhere.



IMO that is what makes it so beautiful. It's the most perfectly hidden secret knowledge that exists. Celestial jewels and treasures of wisdom LITERALLY HIDDEN right in front of everyone's face.
To me it's incredible that some thing so profound could exist and in such a completely intact state and yet so many are 100% oblivious to this "secret."

Well why don't you let us all in on the secret? How did you of all the billions crack the code?

To me it's pretty silly how worked up some people get over the mere mention of the word "bible"................

Me too. I agree with you here. I think the people who get upset are the ones who had religion beat into them as a child. I was more fortunate. While we went to church for a few years and I even went to a Christian school from K-3rd grade, I never bought into it. My quest took me to the stars, which is where I remain, yet at the same time I'm firmly rooted on Earth.

I'm not sure peole realize that buddhism, hinduism and Islamic religions are pretty darned strict as well.

Sure we realize that, but this thread is on the Bible. Here's something you might not have considered: Christianity, Buddhism and Islam are not three separate religions: they were created by three Masters to work as a triad, with Christianity acting as the active side, Islam the passive, and Buddhism as the balancing force: Christians seek God, Islam surrenders to God, and Buddhists find God in the dynamic silence of meditation. It is the insidious genius of the dark rulers of the Church that keep you all separated.



So does this mean we should just burn all the ancient texts that offend our 21st century PC sensibilities?

Absolutely NOT! We should read and absorb them ALL, but we must not be so arrogant as to decide on absolute truths with a single text. It is vital to keep the Question alive, and to never give up the Search.

Perhaps we should just start over and create a new 100% politically correct religious text that just appeals to everyone and pleases every whim and desire there is? This way no ones delicate feelings will be offended.

You miss the point. Religion no longer serves us. It does not work anymore, we need to grow past religious dogma and strict rules on how to connect with the Divine. Religious texts, like government in general, only train you to live and die according to the official rules.

IMO You can always tell when your dealing with something really powerful when it seems like the whole "world" is against it and it creates such a "stir". As we all know..... popular opinion is usually wrong, culture is not your friend etc.........

I don't see how you can say the whole world is against the bible and be honest. The Western world has been controlled by the Church in various forms, with your bible, for centuries. How many BILLIONS go to church every week all over the world under the rule of some bible or other? That doesn't seem like the whole world is against you. Quite the opposite. Seems like you're all in your own mega church clubs, hating one another (Muslims hating Christians AND Christians hating Muslims, etc etc etc, ad nauseam) .

John 15:19:
If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you.

Matthew 10:22:
And you shall be hated of all men for my name's sake: but he that endures to the end shall be saved.


We could toss Bible quotes back and forth ALL DAY to serve our specific agendas, it's MEANINGLESS. And can't you see by the quote you threw down how things like this: "but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you" only serve to incite separation and anger? Like God is so petty to select a "chosen people". Ridiculous. ALL ARE CHOSEN. ALL.





So HELL is just a made up, pretend greek Idea that was made up to scare people into paying money to the church...


Really? That's interesting . . . oh, wait, what about these bible passages??????? :

Hell was designed originally for Satan and his demons (Matthew 25:41; Revelation 20:10).

Hell will also punish the sin of those who reject Christ (Matthew 13:41,50; Revelation 20:11-15; 21:8).

Matthew 13:50 “furnace of fire…weeping and gnashing of teeth”

Mark 9:48 “where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched”

Revelation 14:10 “he will be tormented with fire and brimstone”

Revelation 14:11 “the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever and they have no rest day and night”

Revelation 20:14 “This is the second death, the lake of fire”

Revelation 20:15 “If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire”

Biblical Terms Describing Where the Dead Are:
Sheol - a Hebrew term simply describing “the grave” or “death” – Does not refer to “hell” specifically
Hades - A Greek term that usually refers to hell – a place of torment (Luke 10:15; 16:23, etc.)
Gehenna - A Greek term (borrowed from a literal burning dump near Jerusalem) that always refers to hell – a place of torment (Matthew 5:30; 23:33)
“Lake of fire”- the final abode of unbelievers after they are resurrected (Revelation 20:14,15)
“Abraham’s bosom” - (Luke 16:22) a place of eternal comfort
“Paradise” - (Luke 23:43) a place of eternal comfort
“With the Lord” - a key phrase describes where church age believers are after death (Philippians 1:23; 1 Thessalonians 4:17; 2 Corinthians 5:8)
“New heavens and earth” – where believers will be after they are resurrected (Revelation 20:4-6; 21:1-4)

SOOOOOOOOOooooooooo . . . . . That was all just made up to make money, uh? They did a pretty damn good job.

And please note that those quotes are Old AND New Testaments, so you can't get out of it with the New Testament Clause modern believers love so much.


And, as Maynard James Keenan so aptly put it:

NO MORE NEED FOR THE OLD EMPIRE

 

[Spock's Brain]

This is a great thread, you get everyone's opinion about the Bible's teachings, but little as far as straightforward answer to Purge's question. Inasmuch as an objective response to:

....one of the things that has stopped me from doing this is the fact that it has been edited, parts have been removed, mistranslated or manipulated, so that what we are left with is something that is a cousin of the original texts...

Which would be, FALSE...

What would be the closest thing to the original text be, in English, that I could easily acquire?

As the closest to the original text would be any common available translation. Based upon generations of specialized academic research, every detail of manuscript evidence meticulously picked thru over and over again. To bring you nothing less than a rendition, in your own language, nearest to what the originals said according to that latest research. And from a literary science that's in a class of it's own, entirely focused on a body of texts, "The Bible," that's unlike any other ancient texts in it's abundance of manuscript evidence. No reasonable student of such would claim that such efforts have not been authoritative.

 

[Eliyahu]

The Maxx wrote:

Yeah, but I'd rather not have to sift through ten billion pages of boring, mindless worship to get to the nuggets of truth. Truth is everywhere.

It's really not that difficult.

The Maxx wrote:

Well why don't you let us all in on the secret? How did you of all the billions crack the code?

Yeah, I have already done that. It requires knowledge of the Hebrew aleph bet and kabbalistic science.


The Maxx wrote:

but this thread is on the Bible. Here's something you might not have considered: Christianity, Buddhism and Islam are not three separate religions: they were created by three Masters to work as a triad, with Christianity acting as the active side, Islam the passive, and Buddhism as the balancing force: Christians seek God, Islam surrenders to God, and Buddhists find God in the dynamic silence of meditation. It is the insidious genius of the dark rulers of the Church that keep you all separated.

Islam is passive eh? Well I suppose it is in it's original form.. From what I have studied, all 3 of these religions teach the same types of things.

Silence, humility, compassion, meditation. all common themes. Not sure what your alluding to with the 3 masters thing.

The Maxx wrote:

You miss the point. Religion no longer serves us. It does not work anymore, we need to grow past religious dogma and strict rules on how to connect with the Divine. Religious texts, like government in general, only train you to live and die according to the official rules.

Without rules I'm not sure how everyone is going to find divinity, God does go by certain rules IMO, if no one understands what God wants from us it would creat even more confusion.
Also god can be "strict" just as a good parent is strict to some degree if they truly care for the welfare of their child.

The maxx wrote

I don't see how you can say the whole world is against the bible and be honest. The Western world has been controlled by the Church in various forms, with your bible, for centuries. How many BILLIONS go to church every week all over the world under the rule of some bible or other? That doesn't seem like the whole world is against you. Quite the opposite. Seems like you're all in your own mega church clubs, hating one another (Muslims hating Christians AND Christians hating Muslims, etc etc etc, ad nauseam) .

This response is a clear example of how you have not really read anything I have written.
I am someone who claims believes God to be an Extra Terrestial being.
I believe the world was created by angels who are also E.T's
I am someone who says that God wants humans to Smoke DMT, take Ayahusca, LSD Mescaline, Smoke weed and do wht it takes to SEE THE LIGHT ON YOUR OWN.
I am saying Christ was a Shamanic Raabi that used Ergot wine and Cannabis.

So I'm sure I would be welcome with open arms into any Church in the land ????

I have discussed my views and debated with common christains before and guess what...They hate me, absolutely hate me. A modern Christian is more difficult to speak to God about than a satanic person, I know this from experience.


Maxx wrote:

Really? That's interesting . . . oh, wait, what about these bible passages??????? :

Hell was designed originally for Satan and his demons (Matthew 25:41; Revelation 20:10).

Hell will also punish the sin of those who reject Christ (Matthew 13:41,50; Revelation 20:11-15; 21:8).

Matthew 13:50 “furnace of fire…weeping and gnashing of teeth”

Mark 9:48 “where their worm does not die, and the fire is not quenched”

Revelation 14:10 “he will be tormented with fire and brimstone”

Revelation 14:11 “the smoke of their torment goes up forever and ever and they have no rest day and night”

Revelation 20:14 “This is the second death, the lake of fire”

Revelation 20:15 “If anyone’s name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire”

Biblical Terms Describing Where the Dead Are:
Sheol - a Hebrew term simply describing “the grave” or “death” – Does not refer to “hell” specifically
Hades - A Greek term that usually refers to hell – a place of torment (Luke 10:15; 16:23, etc.)
Gehenna - A Greek term (borrowed from a literal burning dump near Jerusalem) that always refers to hell – a place of torment (Matthew 5:30; 23:33)
“Lake of fire”- the final abode of unbelievers after they are resurrected (Revelation 20:14,15)
“Abraham’s bosom” - (Luke 16:22) a place of eternal comfort
“Paradise” - (Luke 23:43) a place of eternal comfort
“With the Lord” - a key phrase describes where church age believers are after death (Philippians 1:23; 1 Thessalonians 4:17; 2 Corinthians 5:8)
“New heavens and earth” – where believers will be after they are resurrected (Revelation 20:4-6; 21:1-4)

SOOOOOOOOOooooooooo . . . . . That was all just made up to make money, uh? They did a pretty damn good job.

And please note that those quotes are Old AND New Testaments, so you can't get out of it with the New Testament Clause modern believers love so much.[b/]

Well like I said, there is a Gehonim, spiritual punishment does exist, just not to the intolerable extreme it is potrayed as by the Church.

How would the spiritual world function without some form of punishment?

Similar to how if you legalized murder on earth, it might have negative effects.



Maxx wrote in bold/colored print:

And, as Maynard James Keenan so aptly put it:

NO MORE NEED FOR THE OLD EMPIRE

So your refering to Maynard of Tool? The Guy that practices Kabbalah?? The one who wrote the song parabol right? hmmmmm.

Maynard from tool sang the lyrics:

Angels on the sideline, puzzled and amused.
Why did father give these humans free will?
now their all confused
Don't these talikn' monkies know that Eden has enough to go around?
plenty in this holy garden silly monkees
where there one your bound to divide it right in two

Repungant is a creature who squanders the ability to lift an eye to heaven conscious of his fleeting time here.
-------
Your the only one that could hold your head up high, shake your fist at the gates saying
I've come home now... Fetch me the spirit the son and the father
tell them their pillar of faith has acscened it's my time, my time know give me my wings
-------
The Devil and his had me down,
In love with the dark side I fell
Dabbling all the way down,
Up to my neck soon to drown

But you changed that all for me
lifted me up turned me round
.............
Silence Legion save your poison
Silence Legion stay out of my way
----------------------
To ascend you must die, you must be crucified...Goodbye!

===============================

Spock's Brain Wrote:

This is a great thread, you get everyone's opinion about the Bible's teachings, but little as far as straightforward answer to Purge's question. Inasmuch as an objective response to:

Purges wrote:

....one of the things that has stopped me from doing this is the fact that it has been edited, parts have been removed, mistranslated or manipulated, so that what we are left with is something that is a cousin of the original texts...

Which would be, FALSE...


Purges wrote:

What would be the closest thing to the original text be, in English, that I could easily acquire?



As the closest to the original text would be any common available translation. Based upon generations of specialized academic research, every detail of manuscript evidence meticulously picked thru over and over again. To bring you nothing less than a rendition, in your own language, nearest to what the originals said according to that latest research. And from a literary science that's in a class of it's own, entirely focused on a body of texts, "The Bible," that's unlike any other ancient texts in it's abundance of manuscript evidence. No reasonable student of such would claim that such efforts have not been authoritative.

Spock's Brain..

How is a text that ommits all the names for God(72 of them) in any way accurate and true to the original translation? I'm afraid that anyone with even the most elementary knowledge of biblical Hebrew would totally disagree with the statement your making here.

It seems like an under-informed opinion as opposed to an objective and straight forward response IMO.

 

[The Maxx]

Eliyahu, to be fair, is in bold text this time, and my responses are in plain

*************************

Islam is passive eh? Well I suppose it is in it's original form.. From what I have studied, all 3 of these religions teach the same types of things.

Silence, humility, compassion, meditation. all common themes. Not sure what your alluding to with the 3 masters thing.

***********************

TO EXPAND: First, you must understand that the teachings of Buddha had reached the community of Hellenized Jews in which Jesus lived. So they form a part of Christianity. He was a spiritual revolutionary who brought the message of mercy and compassion and the dignity of man to a world of unimaginable terror. The Roman rule was blind and brutal and unspeakably greedy. Ancient knowledge was being murdered by Roman ignorance and Roman power. This knowledge consisted of how to consciously form a radiant body so that you would not recur into the physical, so that you would be free. Christ was here to preserve that this knowledge and pass it down. But even his deposit was corrupted by Roman politicians, who transformed his practice into a religion after he died.

The great error of the present era is the way your religions externalize Christ. You are always calling on Christ. But you had better call on your own heart, for it is your heart that his mansion is founded.

AND BUDDHA: He opened himself to the radiant world and gained its teaching, which he transmitted accurately. But let me rephrase it for this more informed age: the purpose of meditation is twofold. It is to organize the energetic body so that it will not lose its integrity after it can no longer depend upon the structure of the elemental body for its form. Then also, and in an interconnected manner, it is to fill the energetic body with objective sensation. Objective sensation is consciousness. You are within life, but not entirely absorbed in life. Part of you observes yourself from a distance. Remember this: if you do not watch, you do not see, and what you do not see does not impart any change in spin to the electrons that make up the energetic body. The parts of your life that you do not see are not carried with you into ecstasy, and it is ecstasy upon which the formation of the radiant body depends.

Let me rephrase this as well: The teachings of Buddha, Christ and Mohammed are interlinked. They are one system in three, NOT THREE SEPARATE RELIGIONS. This has been hidden from you for a long time.

Christianity is the active side of the triad, Islam the passive, Buddhism the reconciling. Christianity seeks God, Islam surrenders to God, Buddhism finds God. When you see these as three separate systems, you miss the great teaching of which each contains but a part. Seek the kingdom as a Christian, give yourself to God as a Muslim, find your new companion in the dynamic silence of Buddhist meditation.

You may find Buddha sleeping on a park bench, Mohammed pumping gasoline, Christ starving in the backstreet.

***********************

Without rules I'm not sure how everyone is going to find divinity, God does go by certain rules IMO, if no one understands what God wants from us it would creat even more confusion.
Also god can be "strict" just as a good parent is strict to some degree if they truly care for the welfare of their child.

*****************************

How is it that you truly can't see the problem? The fact that every religion on Earth thinks its religious text, its "Divine Rules" are the correct ones and all else are wrong is the cause of most of the suffering in the world. This separation is what your religions actively promote. Your book is the only one that speaks Divine Truth on some bullshit and arbitrary rules to get to "your reward", and everyone else is wrong. This is a problem!

********************************

This response is a clear example of how you have not really read anything I have written.
I am someone who claims believes God to be an Extra Terrestial being.
I believe the world was created by angels who are also E.T's
I am someone who says that God wants humans to Smoke DMT, take Ayahusca, LSD Mescaline, Smoke weed and do wht it takes to SEE THE LIGHT ON YOUR OWN.
I am saying Christ was a Shamanic Raabi that used Ergot wine and Cannabis.

So I'm sure I would be welcome with open arms into any Church in the land ????

*******************************

Yes, you would be. As long as you didn't advertise your beliefs. You go to church to have their ideas, not yours, pushed on you. You think everyone who goes to church actually believes that nonsense? No, they go because they have been brainwashed into thinking they'll go to hell otherwise. Fear rules the sheep of the church.

Religious "leaders" doom religions. To lead, they need political power. For this, they must invent dogma and compel belief. As soon as they say "you must believe this", their religion is over.

*********************************

Well like I said, there is a Gehonim, spiritual punishment does exist, just not to the intolerable extreme it is potrayed as by the Church.

How would the spiritual world function without some form of punishment?

*********************************

Stop thinking this way!! This is no longer the middle ages! You think as the culture of blame does: slap if slapped, punish the sinner. Be objective. Remember that all of God is in everything. The whole of creation is the matter of God. Nothing is separate from God, nor can ever be.

All life is potentially ecstatic, no matter what sin or suffering is involved. All life. Pol Pot, Hitler, and Dahmer are not to be judged by you. You should not be so arrogant as to say they rot in hell. God forgives. But this does not mean you should pray to some old graybeard in the sky. You must find who within you bears you forgiveness. An energetic body that bears such regrets bears them as areas of darkness, and if that body manifests its memory of its elemental self, the manifestation bears sores.

For example, would you like to know what happened to some of the N A Z I S ????? I will tell you: It takes great courage to enter an elemental body, because you are putting yourself in a position where the weakest part of you may imprint your energetic body eternally. Sin is that which bars us from ecstasy. How does sin actually feel? At first, after you die, you begin to taste of the most exquisite pleasure. It is extremely intimate, extremely personal, and as it builds, you begin to live in more and more of your lives. You taste the food, smell the air, you kiss you kisses and love your loves, and it gets more and more beautiful and more and more innocent. And then, suddenly, your hand is opening the gas canister--and you are swept up with all the fear that made you do it, the primitive tribalism that you indulged to monstrous and distorted proportions. You feel sick with a filthy disease, you feel agonizingly ugly, as you kneel at the feet of those you destroyed. And they see you, utterly, as you are. They glow with compassion for you, but their compassion causes you the most terrible anguish because of what it makes you see, and you fall back from ecstasy. You cannot bear to be seen or to see the glory around you, which seems to you like a searing fire, so you turn inward, shielding yourself as a man would shield himself from the burning sun. But you cannot escape. For you, the fire of ecstasy is the fire of agony.

************************

So your refering to Maynard of Tool? The Guy that practices Kabbalah?? The one who wrote the song parabol right? hmmmmm.

************************

Again, like bible quotes, we could pass Maynard quotes back and forth to match our agendas. I've followed Maynard's work from the beginning (to the point where I can say you've misquoted Maynard's lyrics a little bit, but I won't be anal enough to point them out) and it's pretty clear he advocates a radical new spirituality, not the same old tried-and-failed dogma.


God wants companions, not supplicants.

 

[blue lunar night]

I agree that Jehovah/Yahweh/Yaldabaoth is an E.T...

More specifically he is an Archon, in the Gnostic terminology - a deviant, inorganic alien mind-parasite/predator species generated in an aberrative cosmic event prior to the appearance of humans on Earth.

Catch up on the backstory here:

Alien Dreaming: The Enigma of the Archons

...
Ialdabaoth had a multitude of faces more than all of them, so that he could put a face before all of them, according to his desire... He shared his fire with them, therefore he became lord over them. Because of power of the glory he possessed of his mother's light, he called himself God. And he did not obey the place from which he came. (The Apocryphon of John, 11:35 - 12:10)

The declaration of the chief Archon that he is the only god in the cosmos is, needless to say, a defining moment in Gnostic cosmology — if not in human evolution as well. All the cosmological texts describe this event, with slight variations. Gnostics were insistent on the identification of Yaldabaoth with Yahweh or Jehovah, the tribal god of the Hebrews. This deity is not only blind, but witless and insane (Hypostasis of the Archons 89: 24-25). To Gnostics insanity is not so much unsoundness of mind as the consequence of failure to correct mental errors. The mentality of the Archons "cannot be rectified," and, what's worse, "the archontic nature is not capable of development." (Gilhus, The Nature of the Archons, p. 40) Due to the manner of their generation, Archons have no ennoia, no innate intentionality. Theirs is an Alien Dreaming, set apart from the biosphere, the intelligent life-field of Gaia.

The concept of a god who is both void of will power and insane is apparently unique to Gnosticism. Needless to say, when Gnostics expressed their views on the identity of Jehovah to devout Jews and to Christians who also revered the Jewish Father God, they were not well received.

Here is an excerpt from JLL's experience of what he initially mistook for the 'Etheric Christ':

Honeycomb Light of the Christos

Holding totally still and letting my gaze play over the facets produced the most exquisite sensation, as if the honeycomb became excited. I would compare it to the way an animal, or a herd of animals, reacts to the presence of an unidentified creature. The excitation was delicious, charged with anticipation, even suspense. With the play of my gaze ... I detected by a subliminal glimpse how a gold effect flushed the faceting of the lattice. No single facet appeared to be filled with golden light, but the entire lattice itself seemed to be flushed with gold. With this subtle effect immediately came another: the baffling impression that the clear rainwater light was really opaque, like luminous skim milk. Delightfully absorbed in its self-perfecting clarity, I had not observed this quality of the light, but now, suddenly and inexplicably, its opacity was obvious.

That is when I glimped the stately human figure, a body of translucent honey-gold gelatine clad in robes of flowing milk. It moved with subliminal stealth, swirling past me as if dancing through the lattice.

Needless to say, this was a sensational sight. Those who have seen it are inclined to identify it as Christ, and I was no exception. I remember thinking, "Holy shit, I'm in the big time now." I came out of the experience laughing to myself like the village fool savouring a private joke.

At the time of my second encounter with the honeycomb light ... I assumed that I had seen the Etheric Christ, the Inner Christ, the Resurrection Body, or something like that. It took a good many years before I was able to assess and conceptualize this experience in a different way. To be precise, it took about 22 years for me to work through the Christocentric framework in which I placed this experience. In the end, I totally dismantled the framework.

I had to blow the Christ Myth apart at the seams to get to the heart of the most intimate moments of my own mystical experience.

...

So, I got to the anti-Christian view of Gnosis by total immersion in Gnostic Christianity—which makes me, I guess, I pretty lucky boy. I now maintain that many people have had the Mesotes encounter, but most of them tend to interpret it through their religious conditioning. Consequently, they equate the luminous phantom with Jesus Christ of Roman Catholicism, or Protestantism, or Greek Orthodoxy, or Southern Baptism, or Episcopalianism, etc., and they do not recognize the cosmic provenance of the Pleromic Aeon. They do not see the "Inner Christ" in the Sophianic perspective of the Mysteries...

 

[Eliyahu]

Maxx,

From what I read.... you have done nothing besides contradict yourself.

I agree that we don't agree on this issue.
------------------------------------

People are welcome to look up the lyrics to Tools songs on Tools own website.

If I made any errors in posting their lyrics....do let me know.


The Tool Page: 10,000 Days Lyrics

 

[Eliyahu]

I agree that Jehovah/Yahweh/Yaldabaoth is an E.T...

More specifically he is an Archon, in the Gnostic terminology - a deviant, inorganic alien mind-parasite/predator species generated in an aberrative cosmic event prior to the appearance of humans on Earth.

Catch up on the backstory here:

Alien Dreaming: The Enigma of the Archons

...
Ialdabaoth had a multitude of faces more than all of them, so that he could put a face before all of them, according to his desire... He shared his fire with them, therefore he became lord over them. Because of power of the glory he possessed of his mother's light, he called himself God. And he did not obey the place from which he came. (The Apocryphon of John, 11:35 - 12:10)

The declaration of the chief Archon that he is the only god in the cosmos is, needless to say, a defining moment in Gnostic cosmology — if not in human evolution as well. All the cosmological texts describe this event, with slight variations. Gnostics were insistent on the identification of Yaldabaoth with Yahweh or Jehovah, the tribal god of the Hebrews. This deity is not only blind, but witless and insane (Hypostasis of the Archons 89: 24-25). To Gnostics insanity is not so much unsoundness of mind as the consequence of failure to correct mental errors. The mentality of the Archons "cannot be rectified," and, what's worse, "the archontic nature is not capable of development." (Gilhus, The Nature of the Archons, p. 40) Due to the manner of their generation, Archons have no ennoia, no innate intentionality. Theirs is an Alien Dreaming, set apart from the biosphere, the intelligent life-field of Gaia.

The concept of a god who is both void of will power and insane is apparently unique to Gnosticism. Needless to say, when Gnostics expressed their views on the identity of Jehovah to devout Jews and to Christians who also revered the Jewish Father God, they were not well received.

Here is an excerpt from JLL's experience of what he initially mistook for the 'Etheric Christ':

Honeycomb Light of the Christos

Holding totally still and letting my gaze play over the facets produced the most exquisite sensation, as if the honeycomb became excited. I would compare it to the way an animal, or a herd of animals, reacts to the presence of an unidentified creature. The excitation was delicious, charged with anticipation, even suspense. With the play of my gaze ... I detected by a subliminal glimpse how a gold effect flushed the faceting of the lattice. No single facet appeared to be filled with golden light, but the entire lattice itself seemed to be flushed with gold. With this subtle effect immediately came another: the baffling impression that the clear rainwater light was really opaque, like luminous skim milk. Delightfully absorbed in its self-perfecting clarity, I had not observed this quality of the light, but now, suddenly and inexplicably, its opacity was obvious.

That is when I glimped the stately human figure, a body of translucent honey-gold gelatine clad in robes of flowing milk. It moved with subliminal stealth, swirling past me as if dancing through the lattice.

Needless to say, this was a sensational sight. Those who have seen it are inclined to identify it as Christ, and I was no exception. I remember thinking, "Holy shit, I'm in the big time now." I came out of the experience laughing to myself like the village fool savouring a private joke.

At the time of my second encounter with the honeycomb light ... I assumed that I had seen the Etheric Christ, the Inner Christ, the Resurrection Body, or something like that. It took a good many years before I was able to assess and conceptualize this experience in a different way. To be precise, it took about 22 years for me to work through the Christocentric framework in which I placed this experience. In the end, I totally dismantled the framework.

I had to blow the Christ Myth apart at the seams to get to the heart of the most intimate moments of my own mystical experience.

...

So, I got to the anti-Christian view of Gnosis by total immersion in Gnostic Christianity—which makes me, I guess, I pretty lucky boy. I now maintain that many people have had the Mesotes encounter, but most of them tend to interpret it through their religious conditioning. Consequently, they equate the luminous phantom with Jesus Christ of Roman Catholicism, or Protestantism, or Greek Orthodoxy, or Southern Baptism, or Episcopalianism, etc., and they do not recognize the cosmic provenance of the Pleromic Aeon. They do not see the "Inner Christ" in the Sophianic perspective of the Mysteries...

Well then I guess I work for an Evil parasitic overlord.....:twisted:

Hail YHWH-


Seriously though-
Do you think that Lucifer is the true God then as well?

I'm sorry lunar but I cannot accept that the most divine and loving thing I have ever known (YHWH) is a parasite of some kind.....

Gnosticism began in the 2nd century CE, how does that have precedence over the Torah?

 

[blue lunar night]

From my perspective, Yahweh functionally is Lucifer - the epitome of blind arrogance. He refuses to acknowledge the existence of a Source greater than himself and sets about playing 'God' with with hapless humans, whom he despises because we have what he does not - imagination, intention, organic erotic vitality...

And I'm sorry but the current orthodox view of Gnosticism -
that it does not predate the earliest textual reference to it found in the anti-Gnostic writing of the Church Fathers, beginning with the 'First Apology' of Justin Martyr around 150 CE -
is simply incorrect.

Gnosticism has its roots in Pagan Shamanism, which is far older than the Torah, and by the time of the Torah's publication, numerous Mystery schools (including Brahminic, Druidic, Dionysian, Hermetic, Orphic, and Osirian, among others) were operating throughout the Near East, Egypt, the Mediterranean, and the British Isles.

These schools were not exactly sects as they were all founded and united in the shared numinous & interactive experience of the Organic Light, vouchsafed by the Goddess Sophia.

The Pagan world was vast in its learning and accomplishments, before the Christians torched all the libraries and genocided those who practiced the Old Ways.

Monotheism begins with a god who hates trees.

Ye shall utterly destroy all the places where in the nations which ye shall possess served their gods, upon the high mountains, and upon the hills, and under every green tree. And ye shall overthrow their altars, and break their pillars, and burn their idols with fire; and ye shall hew down the carved images of their gods, and destroy the names of them out of that place. - Deuteronomy 12: 2-3

The Demiurge of the Old Testament is jealous, insisting that no other gods be honored before him. This demand of course implies that there are other gods, competing deities. They are Pagan divinities who pervade nature, manifesting in all manner of creatures, in clouds and rivers and trees, even in rocks. Monotheism will tolerate none of these sensuous immanent powers. It makes the Earth void of divinity, its inhabitants subject to an off-planet landlord.

There is a certain power of immense and ineffable Light whose greatness may be held to be incomprehensible, of which power even the maker of this world is ignorant, and Moses the lawgiver, and Jesus your master.

- Simon Magus, Clementine Recognitions, book 2, ch. 49

 

[The Maxx]

Maxx,

From what I read.... you have done nothing besides contradict yourself.

I agree that we don't agree on this issue.
------------------------------------

If you think all I've done is contradict myself, then you CLEARLY have NO comprehension of what I've said. Did you even read what I wrote? Or was it too threatening to your long-held and cherished beliefs? Read it OBJECTIVELY!!!!!!!!!! NOT WITH YOUR BELIEF FILTERS!!!!!

We don't agree because you have a vested interest in hanging on to the bible with two hands. You've invested way too much time and energy to give it up now. To do so would be to admit you may have wasted a lot of time on mythology you do not truly understand.

I will say this about the bible and then bounce off what could have been a productive conversation if you were willing to learn the new ideas I've presented----not BELIEVE them, mind you, because BELIEF IS ALWAYS A LIE. Question EVERYTHING!

People who believe in the bible are much like people who believe in government. They go down with the ship to the bitter end rather than attempt to find new concepts. They sit in their cars screaming at the radio as boring ass NPR preens on, or turn purple with useless anger listening to the conservative station. They attend political rallies for evil men who want power and control (like the clergy) , they throw their money away trying to get the least evolved into office to tell them how to live, and what rules they should follow. So sad, so sad . . .

You don't even have a comment on what I said happened to some of the N A Z I S ??? You're not even remotely curious at all how I know that? Did you even read it and ATTEMPT to understand? Or did you just see a lot of words and go "screw this guy, let's just focus on what I perceive to be contradictions and move on to simpler things".

I'm not trying to get you to throw away your boring bible: I am attempting to show you the actual story is so much more complex, and it is in your extreme arrogance that you think you have it all figured it out. I only have questions and ideas, NOT BELIEFS. The minute you truly believe something is the minute you shut yourself down to the immensity of the totality of Being that exists all around you. You limit yourself with beliefs. In effect, you lock yourself in a tiny room labeled BELIEF.

And the BELIEF room of yours has no windows or doors. There is a crack, though, and if you have the strength to expand your IDEAS, not BLIND BELIEF, you can slip through that crack in that tiny room and participate in the Creation with the rest of us.

Or you can just open your bible to page ten thousand and seventy and read a looooong list of people who beget people and forget about The Maxx and his crazy IDEAS.


And for those who hate reading long posts, I offer my N A Z I story again:

For example, would you like to know what happened to some of the N A Z I S ????? I will tell you: It takes great courage to enter an elemental body, because you are putting yourself in a position where the weakest part of you may imprint your energetic body eternally. Sin is that which bars us from ecstasy. How does sin actually feel? At first, after you die, you begin to taste of the most exquisite pleasure. It is extremely intimate, extremely personal, and as it builds, you begin to live in more and more of your lives. You taste the food, smell the air, you kiss your kisses and love your loves, and it gets more and more beautiful and more and more innocent. And then, suddenly, your hand is opening the gas canister--and you are swept up with all the fear that made you do it, the primitive tribalism that you indulged to monstrous and distorted proportions. You feel sick with a filthy disease, you feel agonizingly ugly, as you kneel at the feet of those you destroyed. And they see you, utterly, as you are. They glow with compassion for you, but their compassion causes you the most terrible anguish because of what it makes you see, and you fall back from ecstasy. You cannot bear to be seen or to see the glory around you, which seems to you like a searing fire, so you turn inward, shielding yourself as a man would shield himself from the burning sun. But you cannot escape. For you, the fire of ecstasy is the fire of agony.

NO GOD WILL EVER JUDGE YOU!! YOU JUDGE YOURSELF!!!

 

[christian]

The "real bible" exists all around you, but it isn't something to read, rather experience. It supplies you with all you need to know as and when it is required to do so. Access to it's knowledge is improved when one lives in a healthful manner, and hampered when one does not.

 

[3rdI]

i like you, The Maxx. i think thats a good take on things. Good skills:thumb_up:

 

[blue lunar night]

More on the biblical E.T./Archon connection:

The Dead Sea Scrolls present graphic evidence that the Qumranic sect looked for rescue to come from the skies beyond the earth. At the moment of the apocalyptic showdown, they expected the intervention of the Kedoshim, radiant warrior angels who would appear in shining round chariots. The celestial host would be commanded by a supreme overlord, whom scholars identify with the eerie, clonelike figure, Melchizedek. Numerous passages in the Dead Sea Scrolls describe the flight and formations of the celestial rescue squad. In the fragmentary columns of 4Q405, The Songs of the Sacrifice of the Sabbath, an observer of the Kedoshim gives his eyewitness account:

They do not sit still, the glorious chariots, the shining ophanim ... spirits of gods ... purity ... holy. The works of [its] corners ... of kingship, the glorious seats of the chariots ... wonderful power ... When they move [they do] not turn aside to any ... they go straight up. ... When they rise the murmuring sound of gods [is heard], and there is an uproar of exaltation when they lift their wings, the [murmur]ing sound of gods. ... And when the ophanim move forward, the holy angels return; [they emerge from between] its glorious [wh]eels with the likeness of fire, the spirits of the holy of holies. Around them is the likeness of streams of fire like electrum, and [lum]inous substance, gloriously multi-colored, multi-colored, [purely] blended. ... And there is a murming voice of blessing in the uproar of their motion, and they praise the holy one on returning to their paths. When they rise up, they rise wonderfully; when they settle, they [sta]nd still.

This passage hardly requires comment. Anyone who has read even lightly into the voluminous eyewitness testimony of UFO sightings will recognize the frequently reported details: erratic and mysterious movement including fast glides and sudden stops, the play of colored lights, rushing and murmuring sounds. The description of how the Kedoshim chariots pause and float, then slide away, in total defiance of known gravitational laws, is particularly striking, and accords perfectly with countless modern reports of UFO activity.

p. 285 NIHI

The difference, Eliyahu, is that you have swallowed their salvationist con-game hook line and sinker, while I see them as sinister, prestidigatory tricksters purveying a "pure senselessness" (Second Treatise of the Great Seth)

As UFO researcher Jacques Vallee observed in Messengers of Deception, "The way to a man's belief is through confusion and absurdity."

 

[Eliyahu]

Blue Lunar light, have you actually seen any of this stuff you speak of or have you only read of it?
I personally have seen the things I speak of and none if it matches what your saying IMO.
I have met Satan and he is not YHWH as far as I can tell

Like I said if the most unconditionally loving and peaceful entity I have ever known is the devil then I am a devil worshipper.:twisted:

That also means that Jimi Hendrix, Pink Floyd,Tool, Bob Marley and the Grateful dead are all Devil worshippers.. I guess pat robertson was right....

I suppose Cradle of Filth is lucifer's(gods) band then, Marilyn Manson must be Christ then right??????
Helter Skelter? Topsey turvey ?? So Buddha is who then? George Washington?
And so the Vedas, the Hindus and the American Indians must be some more parasitic teachings right??

I suppose your revelation makes Anton Levy THE most brilliant man alive then?

Lets not forget those EVIL agnts of YHWH..... Mother Theresa, Ghandi and MLK...Those parasitic agents!!!!


Also for the record I believe 99% of UFO sightings are pure BS.......
the same goes for UFO researchers.....LMFAO at the official title of "UFO researcher".
Do they have a degree in UFO engineering?


Satan is the author of confusion and that stuff your quoting is a prime example of such a thing IMO. It's Pure senslessness alright.

 

[Eliyahu]

Maxx said:

For example, would you like to know what happened to some of the N A Z I S ????? I will tell you: It takes great courage to enter an elemental body, because you are putting yourself in a position where the weakest part of you may imprint your energetic body eternally. Sin is that which bars us from ecstasy. How does sin actually feel? At first, after you die, you begin to taste of the most exquisite pleasure. It is extremely intimate, extremely personal, and as it builds, you begin to live in more and more of your lives. You taste the food, smell the air, you kiss your kisses and love your loves, and it gets more and more beautiful and more and more innocent. And then, suddenly, your hand is opening the gas canister--and you are swept up with all the fear that made you do it, the primitive tribalism that you indulged to monstrous and distorted proportions. You feel sick with a filthy disease, you feel agonizingly ugly, as you kneel at the feet of those you destroyed. And they see you, utterly, as you are. They glow with compassion for you, but their compassion causes you the most terrible anguish because of what it makes you see, and you fall back from ecstasy. You cannot bear to be seen or to see the glory around you, which seems to you like a searing fire, so you turn inward, shielding yourself as a man would shield himself from the burning sun. But you cannot escape. For you, the fire of ecstasy is the fire of agony.

And how is this different from spiritual punishment??

 

[SnozzleBerry]

Blue Lunar light, have you actually seen any of this stuff you speak of or have you only read of it?
I personally have seen the things I speak of and none if it matches what your saying IMO.
I have met Satan and he is not YHWH as far as I can tell

This sounds like dogmatic fundamentalism and needs to stop.

No preaching
If you have an opinion about something, respectfully state it, but please do not talk in absolutes about right and wrong or disrespectfully disregard other world views. No matter how convinced, nobody has a monopoly over knowing what life or the universe is all about, of knowing what happens after death or exactly what 'hyperspace' is and where the experiences come from.

To be honest, an awful lot of your posts come across as dogmatic preaching.

 

[blue lunar night]

]Blue Lunar light, have you actually seen any of this stuff you speak of or have you only read of it?

Yes, I have had intense encounters with the Organic Light, with Sophia, and with the Archons.

Like I said if the most unconditionally loving and peaceful entity I have ever known is the devil then I am a devil worshipper.:twisted:

I didn't say he's the devil... I said he's acting out a Luciferian role... we are operating in totally different paradigms here. Only Jews/Christians/Muslims believe in Satan.

I suppose Cradle of Filth is lucifer's(gods) band then, Marilyn Manson must be Christ then right??????
Helter Skelter? Topsey turvey ?? So Buddha is who then? George Washington?

Again, different paradigms. This isn't about a black/white, good/evil, God/Satan duality. The actual situation is a little more nuanced...

Also for the record I believe 99% of UFO sightings are pure BS.......
the same goes for UFO researchers.....LMFAO at the official title of "UFO researcher".

Most UFO researchers are BS, however Jacques Vallee is not. And it's not an official title, it is a descriptive one.

 

[Eliyahu]

Blue Lunar light, have you actually seen any of this stuff you speak of or have you only read of it?
I personally have seen the things I speak of and none if it matches what your saying IMO.
I have met Satan and he is not YHWH as far as I can tell

This sounds like dogmatic fundamentalism and needs to stop.

No preaching
If you have an opinion about something, respectfully state it, but please do not talk in absolutes about right and wrong or disrespectfully disregard other world views. No matter how convinced, nobody has a monopoly over knowing what life or the universe is all about, of knowing what happens after death or exactly what 'hyperspace' is and where the experiences come from.

To be honest, an awful lot of your posts come across as dogmatic preaching.

Sorry for trying to defend my position it won't happen again.

This will be my last spiritual post -

TO BE HONEST-
Not being able to debate about the Bible in a thread that has the word bible in the TITLE is the Heighth of rediculousness

Currently I am considering ENDING my membership here.

_Elijah

 

[jamie]

anyone who puts that much faith in a book is missing the point IMO. I dont care if it's the bible, qur'an, or some ancient tablets..in the end this is how I feel - who cares, actaully?

Go outside and sit down under some trees, by a stream or walk through the forest. Look around you..do you not see a temple? Are you and this world not sacred? Dont you feel like you KNOW what is good and what is not good, what feels "right" and what feels "wrong"? If you cant do that than I feel deep empathy for you.

That is all the knowledge a person needs to lead a honerable life. You were not born with a book in your hands, or a peachers preaching to you..so forget all that crap.

Far too often I see people here indulging in this sort of stuff as if it is the be all end all..I dont want to offend anyone here really because I dont really judge people this way but I do at times feel like this is all just another ego game. The ego loves to find some kind of validation in ancient texts and books and religions and bla bla bla bla..get over it. This is the year 2012..we dont live 2000 years ago in the middle east.

Jesus, satan, lucifer..these are all just words you would never know a damn thing about if you did not read of them in books.

Why must it be so much more relevant what some people said thousands of years ago, than what is available to evberyone right now when they just stop all this crap and be present?

People obcessed with who floated on water, or rose from the dead or had sex with what alien beings etc to the point where they spend hours argueing about it. It's just stupid.

 

[○]

anyone who puts that much faith in a book is missing the point IMO. I dont care if it's the bible, qur'an, or some ancient tablets..in the end this is how I feel - who cares, actaully?

Go outside and sit down under some trees, by a stream or walk through the forest. Look around you..do you not see a temple? Are you and this world not sacred? Dont you feel like you KNOW what is good and what is not good, what feels "right" and what feels "wrong"? If you cant do that than I feel deep empathy for you.

That is all the knowledge a person needs to lead a honerable life. You were not born with a book in your hands, or a peachers preaching to you..so forget all that crap.

Far too often I see people here indulging in this sort of stuff as if it is the be all end all..I dont want to offend anyone here really because I dont really judge people this way but I do at times feel like this is all just another ego game. The ego loves to find some kind of validation in ancient texts and books and religions and bla bla bla bla..get over it. This is the year 2012..we dont live 2000 years ago in the middle east.

Jesus, satan, lucifer..these are all just words you would never know a damn thing about if you did not read of them in books.

Why must it be so much more relevant what some people said thousands of years ago, than what is available to evberyone right now when they just stop all this crap and be present?

People obcessed with who floated on water, or rose from the dead or had sex with what alien beings etc to the point where they spend hours argueing about it. It's just stupid.

Yes..I was about to post something very along the lines to this.

Sure, there's a few ancient texts that I have read and hold very close to me. But by no means does that supercede my daily experience of 'life'. Every step I take, every breath I take, and every thought I think is all the validation I need to know that this all is VERY special...very sacred.

No book will ever come close.