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I'm going schizophrenic

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And could you ever end up in an endogenous bad trip in the middle of the night that way? similar to an intense aya bad trip?
 
I have woken up into some intense experiences and had some trouble falling back asleap but nothing I would refer to as "bad"..I should mention that I had these experiences anyway without taking anything but when I take harmalas or melatonin before sleep they occur much more frequently and take hold in a stronger way. I know people here hate the whole pineal-DMT connection theory, but something is going on here..I tend to think that I do have endogenous DMT and pinoline experiences, whatever the mechanisms behind them.
 
Kinkyking, you've hit the wall, congratulations your days of using any psychoactive substances are over. I only say this because we are in the same boat my friend, and I know painstakingly well the mental states you've been to and your fear of returning to them. Why did this happen, you might ask, as I once did. What the hell was that place and why did I experience it? What does it all MEAN???? It is way too easy to dwell on the past, and the most simple advice i can give you is: DO NOT. After my continuing buildup of bad experiences until I realized I was a fool to even try, I fell into a dark depression, searching for anything to return me to the joy and wonder I had for these states of mind. I sought professional help, but quite frankly everyone I talked to hadn't the slightest clue to what I had experienced, but sometimes it is nice to talk about what happened to you. The best advice I got from those individuals was: Do not dwell on what happened. In psychiatric practice, there are two ways or dealing with a past trauma. When one has a particularly terrible accident such as a car crash, typically the psychiatrist will get the patient to relive every detail so as they can move on from the experience. This is the exact opposite of what was recommended to me and since i stopped trying to dwell on what happened and why, i have been much more mentally stable and relaxed. The second and seemingly simple advice they gave me was MEDITATE. I don't know what your spiritual practice is, if any, but meditation techniques can be completely secular and if you truly want to understand the intricacies of existence there is no better tool than your own mind. Obviously you've seen the power of your own thoughts by now or you wouldn't be posting this, but you should understand that your thoughts are powerless when you cease to try and control them. Meditation is hard, much harder than dropping a dose or inhaling smoke, but the rewards from taming your own mind are unparalleled. I would also like to add that my brother was much worse than me in that he was in a state of extreme psychosis and schizophrenia for over a year (brought on by abusing psychedelics) , contemplating suicide and completely depressed, and his thoughts on mediCation are that it only buries the issue deeper into your subconscious, instead of confronting it face to face. Oh and on a side note, it is interesting that melatonin helps for you, to me it only compounded my psychosis and led to the loop quicker than you can imagine, but everyone's chemistry is different; however i would still encourage you to look for solutions in yourself, for they are the strongest of all. Sorry for the length but i know how you feel and feel free to PM me if you want to talk more and Good Luck to you and to us all!
 
kinkyking said:
I've realized myself that any psychoactive plant (like even tea and coffee) speeds up the process toward downhill, so I've stopped taking anything since 2 months ago I'm guessing.

@Elf Machine: I don't like to know the reality of life and existence, that's too horrible for me to handle, I want to return to the "fooled happy sheep" stage I was before. The reality behind reality can be so harsh and horrorful for the unprepared (Including myself) to the point of head exploding. just Imagine about yourself being nothing more than a delusion, think about realizing that you haven't exist at all from the very moment of start, all these years (which you'll realize years won't make sense anymore as well) you were just hallucinating your own existence.
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So you realized the tail end of the coin. All is your creation, which means nothing so you say. That is until you realize the other side of the same coin. All is your creation, which means everything.
 
I'v been where you were at after doing some very pure LSD, I just never came down, so it seemed. I would go from feeling "normal" to being right back at peak high. Experiencing endless loops or cycles, if someone was talking to me, I knew what he would say how it would unfold.It took very little to start this shift, any kind of minor stress like meeting a new person, or a new experience, a cup of coffee was a guarantee for a shift.
Long story short, I was in this state for over two years. What helped me cope was chanting, and I'm not advising you to chant, only saying it helped me. For you it might be something else. What ever helps put the ego aside for a while, because thats what it's really about, no me, no problem. But in retrospect it might have made my life easier if I had gone to a shrink. On the other hand I might still be on medication. LOL I came through it myself, it was a hard and lonely time. Get yourself someone to love thats what made me whole, or grounded. Peace my friend, and I'm sending you lots of love, you;l find your way home, we all do eventually.
 
Enoon said:
As for the ideas that life is delusion and reality is only a trick - I think a lot of people come to this point of asking this, some more than others. For me, as a critical inquirer I always ask myself - what is the point of using this model for explaining the phenomenon of experiential reality? And quite frankly I see no point in describing reality as an illusion because it has no consequences that are relevant for me at all. I still suffer and still experience joy and love, regardless if what I call physical existence is just a dream. A dream or illusion also implies that there is something like an actual reality, something from which this dream is being dreamt, but how will you know that isn't a dream as well? You will fall into an infinite regress of layers of dreams with no end and no point.

So for me everything I experience is real. The difference between what some people call dreams or illusions to me is made up only in the way that things can interact. A dream cannot directly interact with my table for example. I can interact with other humans thus them and me share the same plane of reality.
the idea of not having existed is paradoxical. Having the ability of the thought of not having existed already ensures that you have existed.

One very interesting thing about physical reality is continuity, which often dreams and illusions don't have. there is a certain consistence to how things work as can be described by physical laws or patterns, and there is a constant progression of events that can be traced back by virtue of these laws e.g. chemical reactions, collisions, atomic decay, trajectories in space etc. One could of course argue that your knowledge of an event from two minutes ago is also just imagined, but again I ask - what is the benefit of arguing this way? It does nto change that you will continue to experience this world in its progression.

So perhaps your problem is to some degree philosophical in nature. It helps to remember that as humans we are representation-forming machines. Everything we experience forms a representation within our minds, an analogue so to speak. We create models by which we can relate to the world that we only experience through incomplete sensory apparatuses thus limiting our capability of grasping the whole of reality. This means our models are not reality. They are only models. Hence we can question the benefit of one model over another with regards to living quality and well-being. IMO your model does not serve you well. Change it.

On the other hand there might be a physical/chemical problem that is developing, so you should take care to watch your condition carefully and perhaps seek help and professional advice as soon as you can.
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I haven't had time to read the whole thread, but from what I've read I can see there are some seriously good opinions on here. I respect you guys so much for the way you combat these ideas! I haven't been in the same boat as the OP, but I've been wondering about the same questions of existence, and this thread has definitely put a lot into focus for me, particularly this from Enoon.

There's not much to add really, except that, in my opinion, I wouldn't go to a mental health professional at this stage. It seems like you're feeling better now anyway, but I would resist having anything that could go on your record until you really really need it. That's just my opinion, and I know there are ppl who would say go and get evaluated straight away, and I don't know better than them at all, but if it was me, I'd give it more time before going down that route.
 
Kinkyking, sounds to me like you are indeed waking up like the others have said . It looks like you need some good "grounding" work to help you get back into the "normal??" plane of existense, such as being with your family, walks in the nature, good diet, and vigorous exercise. I wouldn't at this point blame the DMT wholly for the state you find yourself in. Did you do the proper research, and get the set, setting, dose right- Do you have a good groundwork in psychadelics, or was this your first big experience out of the blue, etc???
 
I've been where you are. I can only advise what i think is best:

-Dont seriously entertain solipsism. Descartes approach of doubt is philisophically brilliant but if you start really considering it as a true alternative it isnt debateable or falsifiable. To counter that kind of approach, just look at science- testable facts. trust in that, it wont hurt.

Secondly, try and not spend too much time dwelling on your thoughts. Get things done, stay healthy, exercise, read. You'l process the information, just dont dwell on it,

dont get into self diagnosis, if you really fear a mental issue, get yourself evaluated by a professional. The DSM is difficult to dicipher and is only really a guidline by which a professional will diagnose you.

Remember, a mental illness is only an illness if it stops you functioning and surviving on a day to day basis. Beyond that, its just a different way of thinking or behaving. No harm in that, the real innovators of history all thought differently from the social norm.

try all this before you entertain the thought of meds. They are devastating and never ending.

And finally, PM me if i can help at all man; here for a chat. especially a good philisophical discussion if its nagging on your mind.
 
If you are having to take melatonin supplements to keep you from thinkin things aren't real you have a severe deficiency. Melatonin is metabolized ultimately from L-tryptophan. It might be that your not getting enough from diet or that something is wrong with you which I would suggest seeing a doctor and finding out why your body isn't metabolizing melatonin correctly.

Tryptophan is an essential amino acid which means your body doesn't make it, you need it in your diet. You may have a some sort of condition that could get worse unless you seek treatment.

I'm glad you ok though that sounds extremely scary!

Consider these factors first before resorting to taking melatonin as ingesting this hormone will inhibit its synthesis by your body and you will then develop a dependency for supplementation. When your body stops making sufficient melatonin, taking it makes sense. However, when your body could be making more melatonin, but factors exist that inhibit optimal levels; you need to investigate further before supplementation with melatonin.

Some factors that inhibit synthesis of melatonin are:

having a lot of bright lights at night, as light inhibits the mechanism of activating the pineal gland to prompt melatonin synthesis.
taking NSAIDS, anti-anxiety drugs, antidepressants, beta blockers, steroids, calcium channel blockers too late in the evening can affect melatonin synthesis. Re-evaluate the timing of your medications.
Exercising in the evening can decrease melatonin levels up to three hours after the end of exercise. Try to exercise in the morning or early afternoon and not after dinner.
Determine through laboratory testing if you are low in progesterone and/or serotonin.
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I concur with most others here as it really doesn't sound like schizophrenia, but more like an existential crisis. Some calls to the adventure can be ignored or suppressed, but in most cases..it cant. It becomes an inalienable path. Learn to work with through various disciplines whether it be meditation, breathwork, physical stressors such as intense exercise or running. Also do things that drive that inquisitive spark...reading, writing, music (making or listening to), documentaries,etc. If you include any number of these in your daily life I can probably guarantee that you'll see a 180 in everything from how you view yourself and the world. Your emotions will start to stabilize and your well being will start to be restored.

I used to be in a very similar boat to you. A few years back I had an extremely intense oral dmt experience and it had ripped me apart from limb to limb. I would try to stand up and I would just continue to fall over onto my bed, and each time I fell to hit my bed I would be blasted through hyperspace and literally into another realm where I was seeing myself in a different area of reality/the world....such as in colorado, my back yard, florida, etc. This went on for a few hours and it was the most intense experience i've ever had. To realize that I am not bound by the physicality of time/space. I cried for hours afterwards once the experience settled. I took over a year and a half off ALL psychedelics due to this. I had alot of work to do in terms of picking up the scattered pieces. I spent alot of time doing many of the things I was suggesting above. Slowly but surely I started to synch back into my life and keep on keepin on. This took MANY months and felt as if I'd NEVER get back on track.............but I did. And I can't even describe now how good I feel in terms of health, happiness, and mental freedom. I certainly thought I was going mad for months. I shunned all my friends away and pretty much all my social life except for my job. I was literally a recluse for over a year. But in that year I learned more about myself and the world around me than all the past years combined.

Bottomline.....this takes time...and effort on your part. You can do it just as many before you have and will continue to do. :thumb_up: :)

-tat tvam asi
 
You are able to observe your own thoughts! When you go into that habit of going in a loop of non existence you are able to interrupt that thought in many ways like Chanting, meditating, exercising, and Dancing. Remember you are even observing your own thoughts so there is something that exists that is able to observe yourself... to put it in simple terms think of life as an infinite music, so dance and stop freaking about the beginning or the end. It was never about the end or the beginning, it is about now and has always been about now, today, about right now. Enjoy it breath in an feel the love around you.
 
DMTripper said:
obliguhl said:
That's propably the conflict you are dealing with right now. You have had an extreme, reality shattering experience, that you fail to integrate into your existence...because: Lets face it: YOU EXIST. One way or another. We don't know if you have a body, we don't know if I'm real or if the physical reality is "real" at all. But what is real? Just a term we are gotten used to. A term which carries a certain concept WE attached to that term...that means we are real. YOU are real. In one way or another.

Your current struggle is a problem BECAUSE it's a problem. What would happen to your existence if you'd continue to question reality? Many people here have done this for years. They are still here, eating, breathing and enjoying life. Whatever life is, the big mystery. And YOU CAN TOO!! I'm 100% certain that you can, after you've re-evaluated your current problems.
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This is what I wanted to write too you but obliguhl did that for me :)
Don't worry about what's real and what's not because no-one has ever been able to define what's real and what's not. Just be here now and try to do the best of it.
I feel reality is some kind of a setup program for us. But it's what I'm experiencing now and I know it's for a reason. That's my reality for the moment. Reality feels very unreal at times but I know there's something beyond everything.

Well I hope you get through this soon.

And remember "real" is just a word.
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^ good advice...

This is part of the reason that I choose to treat both my dreams and psychedelic experiences as real in accordance with the traditional practice of shamanism. I believe that by allowing the possibility that these experiences can be real that it allows me to be more flexible with my belief systems...

DMT will snap any rigid and brittle belief system like a twig...

MY point is.....so what if your hearing voices? maybe the voices have something important to say... And if the voices are telling you to go out and kill people then tell the voices to fuck off and figure out a way to get rid of them .....besides "medication".

A shaman does not ever lose his marbles because he known that in reality he had no marbles to lose to begin with. Nearly everything we as humans percieve to be true about the "concrete reality" is a is a delusional illusion based on jumped to conclusions.

Consider educating yourself about shamanism.. get wisdom, get discernment. Don't trust that science and psychology will have all your answers, some things are meant for you to figure out on your own. I don't mean to sound like I'm pushing my beliefs, these are just my humble suggestions.

IMO many people who have schizophrenia may be extraordinarily gifted individuals who can see clearly into the spiritual realm. Conflict arises within these individuals and they often times become disturbed IMO because they are not offered any explanation for the intense sensory imput they are recieving on a constant basis other than being told that they suffer from "insanity" in one form or another...


STOP TELLING YOURSELF YOUR CRAZY AND MAYBE YOU WILL STOP FEELING SO CRAZY..... EH?

-Just my advice no offense intended, I do understand that psyhcedelics can completly transform your day-to-day reality into a living salvador Dali painting. Just don't let it get to you.... have fun with it. Reality is a reflection of you. If you are more playful and light hearted towards reality it will begin to seem less and less grimm as it reflects your attitude back to you.

take care-

-E
 
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