Incredibly Hippy-Dippy Question...

[Nathanial.Dread]

I know some people use egg-whites to remove tannins and impurities from solutions during extractions, and I'd be really interested in trying that but...

Are there any vegan substitutes? Something that would behave like egg-whites?

Blessings
~ND

 

[spinCycle]

They make a pretty good scrambled tofu at the local hippy diner,but that's probably not going to work.

 

[nemesauce]

Chia seeds?

*but isn't it the egg shells that are used?*

Sorry for the good up, I did further reading and it is egg white.

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

Chia seeds?

That's an interesting idea. I worry that they'd absorb too much water, which is where the goodies are.

Blessings
~ND

 

[BongWizard]

I believe this tannin leeching effect is caused by the complex mixture of albumins and globulins contained in egg whites. While whole grains such as wheat are a good source of these compounds as well, I'm not sure that it would have the same effect. I make this hypothesis because the egg white mixture is in complex with water and a small amount of fat, which may give the egg white some level of internal no pols solvency potential (again, I'm not certain, this is just a guess). I suppose it could just a matter of a permeable fluid surface which works by catching the undissolved tannins. Perhaps you could try using whole wheat flour, then filtering out of you mixture and pressing as much of the solution out of the resulting mass as possible.

I look forward to seeing how you go, no matter how you choose to go about it.


EDIT: first post in the nexus proper! Woot woot!

 

[nemesauce]

Chia seeds?

That's an interesting idea. I worry that they'd absorb too much water, which is where the goodies are.

Blessings
~ND

You're probably right, they do absorb a lot of water and probably the goodies too.

Thanks for the explanation bongWizard, that cleared up some assumptions I had.

 

[Hiyo Quicksilver]

@BongWizard: Given that adding dry whole wheat would soak up too many actives in the water to be useful, as nemesauce had said...

Do you think that a loose dough could be made of a whole grain flour, water and some vegetable-based oil, then boiled in the brew like a dumpling to achieve a similar effect?

Dumpling dough won't absorb much water or water-soluble goodies, but will selectively absorb *some* things when cooked with them... I know that it *will* turn bright pink when cooked in anything with red wine, while still not taking on much of the more delicate fruit flavors of the wine. Given that the Tanins in the wine are responsible for its deep red color, it leads me to think you're really onto something here!


In the culinary world, egg whites are a bit off an oddity when it comes to their ability to absorb certain things very completely and rapidly (Just think of the way hot egg whites soak up things like pepper oil and chorizo grease, but not salt or water). A dumpling has fairly similar characteristics in its own environment, and if it turns out that it doesn't absorb the active chemicals in the brew... Well, what a useful and novel idea it would be!!
-------------------

Maybe some member could test this out by mixing up a loose dumpling dough and substituting it for egg in a brew, and share the results?..

What sort of grain would be best for this? And what might an ideal oil/water ratio be?

 

[nemesauce]

I believe this tannin leeching effect is caused by the complex mixture of albumins and globulins contained in egg whites. While whole grains such as wheat are a good source of these compounds as well, I'm not sure that it would have the same effect. I make this hypothesis because the egg white mixture is in complex with water and a small amount of fat, which may give the egg white some level of internal no pols solvency potential (again, I'm not certain, this is just a guess). I suppose it could just a matter of a permeable fluid surface which works by catching the undissolved tannins. Perhaps you could try using whole wheat flour, then filtering out of you mixture and pressing as much of the solution out of the resulting mass as possible.

I look forward to seeing how you go, no matter how you choose to go about it.


EDIT: first post in the nexus proper! Woot woot!

But it wouldn't be gluten free, lol.

What about reducing your brew and absorbing the water content + goodies in the chia seed, then doing a cold press to get the actives back?

 

[BongWizard]

But it wouldn't be gluten free, lol.

What about reducing your brew and absorbing the water content + goodies in the chia seed, then doing a cold press to get the actives back?

Very true, it wouldn't be gluten free. But gluten is one of the primary globulins in wheat. It's these globulins and the albumin that may be the key to how egg white work to absorb the fats and tannins.

Did I say whole wheat? I meant to say whole wheat flour (although regular flour would probably work fine, whole flour will have more of the aforementioned albumin), sorry about the confusion. If it does absorb a lot of you mixture, you could give it a good press, then soak in some fresh water and repress. Repeat until the mixture coming out of the press Is relatively clear. The dough idea may work well too, but like I said previously, I've never tried these things personally, I'm just throwing ideas out there. If I was in a position to test this now I would, but I've only just cut my new bark today, so it'll be a couple weeks before I can get it dried and processed.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

In an old caffeine-from-tea-leaves extraction I once saw many years ago, the tannins were precipitated with lead acetate :surprised :?:

The caffeine was pulled into chloroform and subsequently purified by sublimation so the lead content was effectively reduced to zero.

Other metal salts can precipitate tannins too. Best to avoid lead in the kitchen, I would strongly suggest.

As far as dough goes, very strong pasta flour would probably be best. Or for gluten-free, how about gram (chick pea/garbanzo) flour?

 

[Mz.Gypzy]

I remember reading somewhere that people also use gelatin to remove the tannins. Though Gelatin is not vegan, there is vegan Gelatin substitutes like "Agar Agar" that might work.
Just an idea

 

[downwardsfromzero]

For reasons of chemistry, I believe Agar is unlikely to precipitate tannins.

 

[BongWizard]

For reasons of chemistry, I believe Agar is unlikely to precipitate tannins.

You mean because it's soluble in hot water? Yeah that'll be an issue lol

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Also it's a polysaccharide rather than a protein and as such will not display the useful coagulation that albumin does.

Agar consists of a mixture of agarose and agaropectin. Agarose, the predominant component of agar, is a linear polymer, made up of the repeating monomeric unit of agarobiose. Agarobiose is a disaccharide made up of D-galactose and 3,6-anhydro-L-galactopyranose. Agaropectin is a heterogeneous mixture of smaller molecules that occur in lesser amounts, and is made up of alternating units of D-galactose and L-galactose heavily modified with acidic side-groups, such as sulfate and pyruvate.

 

[Auxin]

As a member of what is probably the nets biggest vegan community I can say that the requirement for vegans to avoid animal products isnt technically absolute. Not 100.00% There is a loop-hole.
Vegans can swallow.

Is that protein source compatible with MAOIs? :want:

 

[The Traveler]

I think that what you are looking for is bentonite.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

 

[BongWizard]

I think that what you are looking for is bentonite.


Kind regards,

The Traveler

What he said. Damnit why didn't I think of that. You confused me by saying vegan... Thought I was on a cooking show or something. Now I'm back in a chemistry frame of mind, activated carbon would also be a good option.

Add your adsorbent (bentonite or activate carbon) to the brew and give it a good stir. While that's doing it's thing, set up a funnel with a couple coffee filters (as ways, pre-wet the filter). Place a small amount of adsorbent in the bottom of the filter. Give your brew another stir then run it through the filter. Et voila! Clean tea.

 

[Hiyo Quicksilver]

And Trav saves the day again!!!

(Go Figure.. :lol: )

 

[Auxin]

Activated carbon is used as an antidote in alkaloid poisoning because it absorbs alkaloids so well, wouldnt it be quite inappropriate for stripping tannin from brews?

Bentonite may be a good idea. If it doesnt work the bentonite could be 'charged' with protein from lentil tea or something, which it would then hold on to for further reaction with tannin.

Heck, just 'lentil tea', or pea protein powder, or TVP, etc. might work. It isnt actually necessary to remove all the excess protein, is it? And tannin precipitates proteins in general, not just albumin, right?

I'd still like to know if someone tries jizzahuasca

 

[downwardsfromzero]

[...]

I'd still like to know if someone tries jizzahuasca

Actually, this was essentially my first thought, but I decided to leave it up to someone else. So, thanks Auxin

Does bentonite really precipitate tannins?