Intelligence in matter

[Amygdala]

My beginner's interest in DMT stems from both the experiential (sounds like one of them most amazing experiences humans can go through) as well as the quasi-philosophical. Since i have yet to successfully extract, this post will concern the latter, for whomever may be interested. I realize that this is a little like a virgin talking about sex, but bear with me if you are so inclined.

I have a background in biology, and have long been interested in the notion that humans as well as all known life are made of the exact same things as everything else... it is assumed that the organization of these elements, ie. how they are put together that results in the sentient/conscious experience. I mean literally the same stuff... all of the carbon, hydrogen, nitrogen, oxygen, phosphorus, sulfur and trace elements that comprise us used to exist as stardust, coffee tables, tree bark, etc. If it is true that matter can neither be created, nor destroyed (the prevailing scientific notion), then every particle in your body has existed since the big bang and has assumed a different form for the last 13+ billion years. You are not even the same cells that you used to be... roughly every 7 yrs or so, all of your cells have died and been replaced.

This leads me to ponder that if the building blocks have never changed, only 're-shuffled the deck', then does our conscious experience result merely from the code of assembly (how these particles are arranged to form a nervous system, etc), or does the potential for information exist all the way down to the particle level?

What does all of this have to do with DMT? Well, I am curious how such as simple compound that exists nearly everywhere and is only a few small enzymatic steps from tryptophan can alter our conscious experience as drastically as I have read in many reports. Is it a possibility that whatever lifeforce (please excuse the new-agey term) exists in us also exists in the most seemingly inanimate particles and we are just an manifestation/expression of some of those particles?

If I have learned anything from years of mushroom experiences, it is that the separation between self and other is to a large degree illusionary, and that all that exists is more like a continuous ocean of particles and energy than a collection of distinctly separate entities. To realize that you are a manifestation of 'all there is' instead of a stranger in a strange land was very profound for me, and I hope that my impending dmt experiences will continue where mushrooms left off.


Thank you for reading a long winded, and rambling set of ideas. Love to you all,

Amygdala

 

[Enoon]

If it is true that matter can neither be created, nor destroyed (the prevailing scientific notion),

This is false. Matter can be created and destroyed. That is the principle of atomic energy and the famous equation E=mc². Energy is what cannot be created nor destroyed. Energy is what is conserved, not matter. Stars create higher-order matter trough fusion - the general matter existing being simply hydrogen - but after going through the process of being a star, the hydrogen fuses together with other hydrogen to form Helium and depending on the type of star and possible super-novae things like iron, carbon or whatnot. All of the higher elements we find on our planet at some point had to go through that kind of process. THis is why people say that we are all just stardust.

This being said your theory still holds good points. Considering that we are comprised out of the same elements as everything else, what separates us from heap of composting earth is the higher order of organization to the components of our selves. atoms -> molecules -> proteins -> cells -> organs, neurons, cardio-vascular system, brain, etc. -> consciousness? It seems to me the complex interactions and combinations of the most simple building blocks is where the magic really lies.

nice insights from your mushroom trips.
Welcome to the forum

 

[benzyme]

define matter.

if matter is considered to have mass, it falls under the law of conservation of mass, which directly correlates to energy as well (mass converted to energy).

we don't create elements, we can only transform them.

 

[RustySpoon]

the trip i had the other day was exactly as you speak, it was incredibly awkward and ive never ever thought of life or beings the way i experienced in my trip. heres a report i wrote up, idk if you have read that or not, or if that is what made you bring up this topic, i find it ironic :shock:

DMT Report

 

[Amygdala]

Thanks for your interest and replies,

I am certainly no expert at any of this, i just find it very interesting.

Speaking to the point that the level of organization of matter/energy (whatever it is that physically exists) is what endows the ability to be conscious. I agree, yet there is something that always bothers me about this. This would imply that the arrangement of the building blocks (subatomic -> atomic - molecules - cells, etc ) is greater somehow than the sum of its parts, and 'communication' be it electrical exchange or whatever between the individual components adds up the produce phenomenological experience at the organizational level of a human nervous system. Even though a nervous system is an incredibly highly organized system, it sill is just the same elements that make up everything else. The magic as it were, would have to be rooted in the most basic levels.

I am not suggesting that a deskchair is conscious simply because it is made of the same stuff that we are, only that it contains the same potentiality. Whatever this substance that 'is', contains the potential for conscious qualia when arranged in a certain fashion. It's an oddly comforting thought (misconception?) that though the energy/particle soup never really changes, the arrangements do and like music, the arrangements make the magic happen.

 

[cyb]

Interesting...
Perhaps given that we are essentially a seething mass of micro electrical discharges, wrapped in an 'atomic/molecular' suit, the sum of all those discharges firing creates a 'field' that could be 'interacting' somehow with the quantum field of potentiality and gives rise to 'manifestation' and/or 'consciousness'.

ie. more than the sum of all parts (localized energy discharge)= Us (and the rest of the 'Mystery')

:?

edit: (or maybe I just drank half a bottle of Port and am talking complete cr*p)

 

[Mr.Peabody]

Very interesting topic of discussion. My current thinking on it is that our bodies are arranged in such a specific way as to allow the attachment of a life-force/soul/consciousness. The physical arrangement allows for the quantum wave lattice state (in our brains and to a lesser extent the rest of the nervous system) which either gives consciousness or allows consciousness to inhabit the body. I kind of view the body as a hat rack, and consciousness is a coat that gets draped over it.

Another thing that is of great interest is the consciousness of a single cell. Cells are the basic building blocks of us, but each one is alive. Each cell has a brain of it's own. Most cells don't live long without the rest of the cells (body) and the body does not live long with out the particular arrangement of the cells.


Probably sounds like a bunch of gibberish, huh?

Edit:
I forgot to mention another thought. The similarities between DMT and serotonin is somewhat illusory. For example, water is made up of hydrogen and oxygen, but so is hydroxide and peroxide. The only differ in ratios. They are similar molecules, but are also very different. The differences in DMT make the electron fields which exist over the molecule behave in a different way than serotonin. The differences in these fields I believe cause the differences in perception and a difference in overall consciousness. Because of this I think it causes a change in the quantum state of the brain.

 

[benzyme]

What does all of this have to do with DMT? Well, I am curious how such as simple compound that exists nearly everywhere and is only a few small enzymatic steps from tryptophan can alter our conscious experience as drastically as I have read in many reports.

one would need to consider the bigger picture if one were to draw any conclusions, and this means an assessment of the structure-function relationships as it pertains to ligand-receptor interactions, and the subsequent signal cascades. tryptophan is a precursor to serotonin, thus looking at serotonin (and its analogues) interactions with its receptor systems in the raphe nuclei would give a better perspective, rather than focusing on the precursor and the enzymatic pathway to dmt.

 

[nen888]

^..good point benz..

also, just simple nitrogen can lead to 'profound states' e.g. divers' nitrogen narcolepsy..angels and chiors..like that James Cameron movie The Abyss they say..

 

[Jarl Von Hoother]

Dear Amygdala,

You need to read this book by Jeremy Narby, 'Intellegence in Nature'

The second time I did DMT I had this amazing revelation that literally EVERYTHING we could know about the world is made out of love. The more you question the world around you the more you begin to love it. and that all knowledge isn't useful unless it serves a purpose for you and putting an idea or faith before you is a way of engendering the world with love.

not the most scientific point of view I digress, but if you think about it people want each other in the deepest of ways more than anything else in the whole world.