Intro to Mescaline and Harmalas

[joedirt]

I had the day off and I only had a small amount of mescaline.

I took the 130-150mgs of mescaline along with 130mgs of rue haramals hcl salts.

About one hour into it I felt a little 'off'...which is very normal for me on any of these substance.

At the 90 minuted mark the energy started building up and building up...as the nausea and 'offness' was fading.


3 hours in now. Clearly this isn't going to be a full on etheogenic dose, but then I wasn't aiming for that.

What I have observed. Well I haven't had anything to eat since yesterday night... But I Have had no headaches or other signs of weird phenylamine MOAI interactions. I feel this combo is quite safe. But remember I haven't had food for probably hours now...well other than fruit that is.

To be sure I am having an absolute blast. Working in the garden and tooling around the house, but next time....oh yes there will certainly be a next time. :twisted:

Next time, I'm thinking 300mgs of mescaline and 150mgs of rue. :d

Peace

 

[mew]

winning combo!

id probably dose the rue at the three hour mark for dual climax

 

[joedirt]

That is a good point Mew.

I took them together and didn't notice much haramala effect. It certainly made it stronger, but not like I had imagined.

I'd think maybe take the harmalas about 1.5-2 hr in so they are fully working by the time the mescaline starts getting in.

 

[AlbertKLloyd]

Not a bad combo.

 

[Bezerker]

Quoted from Shulgin's TiHKAL:

WITH MESCALINE

(with 100 mg harmaline, 60 mg mescaline (3,4,5-trimethoxyphenethylamine) [20 min]) “At two hours I was in a pleasant state of physical relaxation, a fine sense of well being, and I found music most enjoyable. From then to the fourth hour, thoughts flowed freely, and it became obvious that insight was a major part of this experience. Normally unconscious thoughts were easily available. It was as if I could observe my mind in operation, as facts were weighed to form conclusions. By the sixth hour music was a thing of beauty, with the higher notes crisp and clear. The harmaline has probably worn off. Sleep at eight hours, and the next day was without any adverse effects. This was a remarkable experience, the insight of TMA, and the relaxation of MDMA.”

(with 150 mg harmaline, 100 mg mescaline [15 min]) “A stomach ache developed at about 45 minutes, followed by a mild nausea which occurred intermittently throughout the next six hours. I felt comfortable, although there was a slight discoordination at about two hours. Walking was never a problem but did require more concentration than normal. Colors on the television were obviously more intense, and highly saturated at this point and moderate photophobia developed. Even a fire in the fireplace was distracting, and stereo was best enjoyed in the dark. Attempts at sleep did not work until the ninth hour. Upon awakening there was a feeling of dehydration but otherwise no ill effects. Mild looseness of stools was present later that morning. Since experiments using only mescaline at doses between 80 and 120 mg resulted in no CNS effects at all, it seems clear that the MAO blocking effects of the harmaline were crucial to this experience.”

This is a bit different from your trip report because rue harmalas are a mix of harmala and harmaline. It takes about 200-220mgs of rue alks (from manske) to get me fully inhibited. I've got to try this because it would be a great way to conserve precious mescaline. It seems like the lower dose was more enjoyable. I wonder if 300mgs mescaline and 150mgs harmalas might be a bit much. Looking forward to trying this myself. Just be carefull mixing phens and maoi's....we all know the dangers.

 

[mew]

i think its funny shulgin mention the phantom poop syndrome

Mild looseness of stools was present

 

[joedirt]

Quoted from Shulgin's TiHKAL:

WITH MESCALINE

(with 100 mg harmaline, 60 mg mescaline (3,4,5-trimethoxyphenethylamine) [20 min]) “At two hours I was in a pleasant state of physical relaxation, a fine sense of well being, and I found music most enjoyable. From then to the fourth hour, thoughts flowed freely, and it became obvious that insight was a major part of this experience. Normally unconscious thoughts were easily available. It was as if I could observe my mind in operation, as facts were weighed to form conclusions. By the sixth hour music was a thing of beauty, with the higher notes crisp and clear. The harmaline has probably worn off. Sleep at eight hours, and the next day was without any adverse effects. This was a remarkable experience, the insight of TMA, and the relaxation of MDMA.”

(with 150 mg harmaline, 100 mg mescaline [15 min]) “A stomach ache developed at about 45 minutes, followed by a mild nausea which occurred intermittently throughout the next six hours. I felt comfortable, although there was a slight discoordination at about two hours. Walking was never a problem but did require more concentration than normal. Colors on the television were obviously more intense, and highly saturated at this point and moderate photophobia developed. Even a fire in the fireplace was distracting, and stereo was best enjoyed in the dark. Attempts at sleep did not work until the ninth hour. Upon awakening there was a feeling of dehydration but otherwise no ill effects. Mild looseness of stools was present later that morning. Since experiments using only mescaline at doses between 80 and 120 mg resulted in no CNS effects at all, it seems clear that the MAO blocking effects of the harmaline were crucial to this experience.”

This is a bit different from your trip report because rue harmalas are a mix of harmala and harmaline. It takes about 200-220mgs of rue alks (from manske) to get me fully inhibited. I've got to try this because it would be a great way to conserve precious mescaline. It seems like the lower dose was more enjoyable. I wonder if 300mgs mescaline and 150mgs harmalas might be a bit much. Looking forward to trying this myself. Just be carefull mixing phens and maoi's....we all know the dangers.

Interesting. I'm guessing my actual dose was pretty close to Shulgins low dose. Extraction vs synthetic...

Makes me think twice about upping the dose on both the harmalas and mescaline as Shulgin seemed to now really like the larger dose at all?

 

[jamie]

I want to try this but like with other things, I seem to be very sensitive to mescaline. I dunno what % my torch is but 20g of dry outer flesh would def floor me. I get visuals easily at 12g..so either my cacti is just really strong or I am overly sensitive...no idea what ammount of mescaline that would be but I think I would start with less than 100mg just to be sure when I do try this..Im always worried about the harmalas making the mescaline go for like 30 hours or something.

 

[Eliyahu]

Joe ----

I offer my humble advice that you should include Caapi in the mix....I have seen observed that caapi and mescaline are a PERFECT synergy of two legendary plant teachers working in harmonious concert... Rue is effective but a rough ride if you take 2 much.... I would recommend combining mostly rue, lots of caapi and then ...your mescaline....YUM!

Don't be scared to add LSD to the mix ....BANG! POW! ZAP! Oh yes and be sure to smoke your DMT sir....ZOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM to the mooon.

 

[joedirt]

Joe ----

I offer my humble advice that you should include Caapi in the mix....I have seen observed that caapi and mescaline are a PERFECT synergy of two legendary plant teachers working in harmonious concert... Rue is effective but a rough ride if you take 2 much.... I would recommend combining mostly rue, lots of caapi and then ...your mescaline....YUM!

Don't be scared to add LSD to the mix ....BANG! POW! ZAP! Oh yes and be sure to smoke your DMT sir....ZOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM to the mooon.

I would like to replace the rue HCL with some brewed cappi some time

For sure if/when I do this I will take Jamie's advise and start back down around 100mgs or lower.

For what it's worth Jamie I didn't get a huge extension in trip. the harmalas wore off long before the mescaline did. I can usually still feel traces of mescaline energy a couple of day's after even a small dose.

 

[joedirt]

After today's rather nasty rue-hcl/dmt interaction I will certainly err on the side of lower rue when I repeat this. In fact I won't be upping the rue-hcl at all next time.

I took 250mgs today with 40mgs dmt and had a HORRIBLE experience...though yes still very healing in the long run..but I had full on body twitches and shakes for a good two hours. I think I just overdid the rue.

Peace

 

[Bezerker]

I took 250mgs today with 40mgs dmt and had a HORRIBLE experience...though yes still very healing in the long run..but I had full on body twitches and shakes for a good two hours. I think I just overdid the rue.

That sucks to hear. I've dosed 220-250mgs of rue alks and never had those symptoms. Usually just causes a rearend purge thats over by the first hour. Lots of variables here like body weight and purity of your rue alks.

Check out my TR in the pharma section. 230mgs rue alks and 120mgs DMT. Not fun...too much DMT.

Next trip I'll try 220mgs rue alks and 125mgs mescaline HCL. Harmalas first and mescaline 30 mins later.:shock:

I'll report back.

 

[mew]

why not rue during the mesc peak at 3 or so hours after dosing mesc? wouldnt synergistic climax be the objective?

or perhaps a nice segg weigh into the mesc is what youre suggesting

 

[SHroomtroll]

How about smoking some extracted harmalas while peaking on mesc?

Ive wanted to try dmt on cacti for awhile but im afraid it would blow me too far away

 

[joedirt]

I took 250mgs today with 40mgs dmt and had a HORRIBLE experience...though yes still very healing in the long run..but I had full on body twitches and shakes for a good two hours. I think I just overdid the rue.

That sucks to hear. I've dosed 220-250mgs of rue alks and never had those symptoms. Usually just causes a rearend purge thats over by the first hour. Lots of variables here like body weight and purity of your rue alks.

Check out my TR in the pharma section. 230mgs rue alks and 120mgs DMT. Not fun...too much DMT.

Next trip I'll try 220mgs rue alks and 125mgs mescaline HCL. Harmalas first and mescaline 30 mins later.:shock:

I'll report back.

Like you said there are a lot of variables to content with.

For sure I have a much lower tolerance than most. 20mgs freebase and I'm solidly in hyperspace for 10 minutes. But I've misfired a few times with pharma trying to dose to low.


Next time I'm going 150mgs rue-hcl and 35mgs dmt...however I am leaning towards just drinking aya. Giving up the pharma. Aya is so dead simply to get right and I really don't mind the purge at all.

 

[Bezerker]

why not rue during the mesc peak at 3 or so hours after dosing mesc? wouldnt synergistic climax be the objective?

Everything I've read about harmalas has pointed to pre-dosing 20-30mins ahead. Wouldn't it be great to get a full mescaline trip off 150-200mgs. Rue extractions have high yields and cheap starting materials.

I might try smoking some freebase harmalas during the mesc peak.:shock:

Ive wanted to try dmt on cacti for awhile but im afraid it would blow me too far away

Its totally awesome and adds colors to the rest of your cacti trip. IME

 

[Ilex]

Something to keep in mind with cactus + harmala (rue or caapi) combinations, you will get a synergy between the two substances but not much of a direct potentiation.

Why? Harmala alkaloids are MAO-A inhibitors, the MAO-A system preferentially breaks down indoles whereas the MAO-B system preferentially breaks down phenethylamines. Also, although some mescaline may be metabolized by MAO-B, most of it is broken down by another enzyme system, catechol-O-methyltransferase I believe.

 

[AlbertKLloyd]

Something to keep in mind with cactus + harmala (rue or caapi) combinations, you will get a synergy between the two substances but not much of a direct potentiation.

Why? Harmala alkaloids are MAO-A inhibitors, the MAO-A system preferentially breaks down indoles whereas the MAO-B system preferentially breaks down phenethylamines. Also, although some mescaline may be metabolized by MAO-B, most of it is broken down by another enzyme system, catechol-O-methyltransferase I believe.

The harmala alkaloids also affect the glutaminergic pathways, and this is most likely how potentiation occurs.

Consider that there are many many MAO-inhibitors out there that do not potentiate psychedelics and do not allow DMT to be orally active.

Lots of NMDA receptor antagonists potentiate psychedelic effects.

The view that the effects of the harmala alkaloids are caused by MAO-inhibition alone is just way too simple. So many MAOIs do not do this that it is time we consider rejecting the theory that potentiation of psychedelics by harmala alkaloids has anything to do with their effect upon MAOI. consider this thread:

Research that suggest MAOI could attenuate effect of DMT - Harmalas - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

More MAO inhibition does not mean more potentiation or more psychedelic effect, actually the opposite is reported.

Since the view of the betacarboline alkaloids like harmala alkaloids and just MAOI is just too simple here is this to consider:

http://bitnest.ca/external.php?id=%257DbxVf_%255EC%251A%250C%2506%257Dry%2503%2505P%255CV%250B%255DMwti%251D

􀀁-Carboline Alkaloids: Biochemical and Pharmacological Functions
Rihui Cao1, Wenlie Peng1, Zihou Wang2 and Anlong Xu*,1

1Guangdong Key Laboratory for Pharmaceutical Functional Genes and Center for Biopharmaceutical Research, School of Life Sciences, Sun Yat-sen University, 135 Xin Gang Xi Road, Guangzhou 510275, P.R. China

2Institute of Materia Medica, Chinese Academy of Medical Sciences & Peking Union Medical College, 1 Xian Nong TanStreet, Beijing, 100050, P.R. China


Abstract: 􀀂-Carboline alkaloids are a large group of natural and synthetic indole alkaloids with different degrees of aromaticity, some of which are widely distributed in nature, including various plants, foodstuffs, marine creatures, insects, mammalians as well as human tissues and body fluids. These compounds are of great interest due to their diverse biological activities. Particularly, these compounds have been shown to intercalate into DNA, to inhibit CDK, Topisomerase, and monoamine oxidase, and to interact with benzodiazepine receptors and 5-hydroxy serotonin receptors. Furthermore, these chemicals also demonstrated a broad spectrum of pharmacological properties including sedative, anxiolytic, hypnotic, anticonvulsant, antitumor, antiviral, antiparasitic as well as antimicrobial activities. In this review, we summerized the biochemical and pharmacological functions of 􀀂-carboline alkaloids.

Sorry that it is so old, (2007) it was too far back to include this (2011):

europharmacology. 2011 Jun;60(7-8):1168-75. doi: 10.1016/j.neuropharm.2010.10.016. Epub 2010 Oct 27.

Harmine, a natural beta-carboline alkaloid, upregulates astroglial glutamate transporter expression.
Li Y, Sattler R, Yang EJ, Nunes A, Ayukawa Y, Akhtar S, Ji G, Zhang PW, Rothstein JD.
Source

Department of Neurology, Johns Hopkins University, School of Medicine, Baltimore, MD 21205, USA.

In my experience potentiation of psychedelics via the use of harmala alkaloids is more successful with lighter doses of the harmala alkaloids as opposed to increased doses. I also know that if I combine a small amount of harmala alkaloids (50mg or so) with cacti I can take about 1/4 to 1/3 as much cactus as a regular dose for me and get the same type of effect. This is also taking them together, at once, not predosing.

Maybe I am wrong, but I think harmala alkaloids potentiate PEAs strongly and that this has nothing to do with MAO-Inhibition.

 

[DansMaTete]

I'd like to warn that mixing mescaline and harmalas is not always safe.

I already had an experience with 400mg mescaline + 200mg harmalas with no problem so in my mind there was no danger about this combo. My last night experience changed my mind about this.

I took 250mg of mescaline and at T+5 as effect were soft i decided to play with changa. First spliff (100mg dmt, 40mg harmalas) was magnificent so i made another one. Wrong choice, as i was puffing i could feel an headache rising but stupidly i continued to toke on it. At one point, i realised something was wrong and i dropped the spliff. My head feels like exploding, nausea, shivering, sweating, extreme confusion, no more balance even lying down, i almost passed out.

Seems to me it was a seritonergic syndrom and it was scary, i could not have call for help as i was too confused and for 30 min (? Hard to tell) it was a nightmare. After that, i could feel it was wearing off and i started to calm down less scared something very wrong happens. It wasn't finished, and i needed 1 or 1,5h to feel better except an strong headache resistant to painkiller. Aftera night of sleep (after the stimulating come down of mescaline wear off) I'm alright, though still with an headache.

I don't know if other factors played a role in this case but i can tell you this combo mesca/harmalas, is finished for me.

So be carefull with harmalas combo and even with changa which seems less dangerous but can interact with other drugs.