Introducing myself and asking for some advice after 5-meo-dmt experience

[clop]

Hi Guys,

I'm new to the new forum. I did a post a few years ago on the old one but I'm returning now. Few years ago I was in a big struggle with suicidal ideation and depression, and a bit has changed although I still experience a lot of anger and sometimes I have suicidal thoughts but they are not that grabby. I will mention that also I have good moments a few times. Today I mostly struggle with anger, I break a lot of things, and I few scared and stop. (Sometimes I think that I should not stop and allow the flow of things just to happen and break until the impulse subsides and exhaust this energy.)

I've taken Mushs, Ayahuasca, Iboga, 5-meo-dmt and Aya+5-meo together, but I still struggle a lot. I few that this spiritual journey brought me a lot of confusion (experiences and spiritual teachers) and I few some advices from "enlightened teachers" doesn't support my healing (I might be wrong). For ex: when I hear eckhart tolle to never try to stop my anger behavior suppressing it, I allow it if after some moments of "shining awareness" to it doesn't dissipate.

Also I got a very traumatic 5-meo-dmt experience, while at the first part was the most beautiful and blissful experience of my life, the second was hell. I got that I was a lost case and it was over. Nothing could heal me and I was sentenced to self-annihilation. Just a bit before this I remmember having a thought of doubt if that state was real, and if I was indeed "healed".

So sorry guys If I was too direct to the point here, but I want to engage with the community and hear from the experienced psychonauts here their view on that. Also if there is someone experienced with psyches, therapy also could be a good help. I want to bring more of my experience and share this journey.

 

[EmeraldAtomiser]

Very sorry to hear of your troubles, my friend.
I had a similar experience with a mushroom journey last year. The first part was beautiful and brought focus and clarity, the second, incredibly difficult, bringing a perspective on myself that I was struggling with for months. Not quite the message you have received, but it took me to a very dark place that I did not seem able to escape from.
What helped me was an MDMA Solo journey https://castaliafoundation.com/kali/MDMA-solo.pdf
I can only describe the experience as being bathed in love and acceptance, and it allowed me to let go of this negative shroud that had enveloped me.
As with any of these ceremonial journeys, subsequent integration work is key to keeping your compass on the right heading, but I don't think I could have moved into any kind of healing mode without the help that molecule brought me.
Do you know why you have this anger and are driven to break things? Are there things you could cut from your life that would help with this, or things you can do that help alleviate it?
I hope you can find a way past this.
Peace.

 

[clop]

Very sorry to hear of your troubles, my friend.
I had a similar experience with a mushroom journey last year. The first part was beautiful and brought focus and clarity, the second, incredibly difficult, bringing a perspective on myself that I was struggling with for months. Not quite the message you have received, but it took me to a very dark place that I did not seem able to escape from.
What helped me was an MDMA Solo journey https://castaliafoundation.com/kali/MDMA-solo.pdf
I can only describe the experience as being bathed in love and acceptance, and it allowed me to let go of this negative shroud that had enveloped me.
As with any of these ceremonial journeys, subsequent integration work is key to keeping your compass on the right heading, but I don't think I could have moved into any kind of healing mode without the help that molecule brought me.
Do you know why you have this anger and are driven to break things? Are there things you could cut from your life that would help with this, or things you can do that help alleviate it?
I hope you can find a way past this.
Peace.

Thank you for sharing that. I thought about MDMA but here in my country (Brazil) it is quite hard to get a good quality one in my region. I don't know specificly why the anger, but I've lived lots of situations (not wanting to get to this victim role but getting to it to explain) of powerlessness in my life, violence, got life threatened sometimes, situations that I asked for help due to suicidal ideation and people turned their back to me, and other things that made me few hurt.

 

[EmeraldAtomiser]

That's a bummer about the supply issue, but do bear it in mind. If you do happen across a good source, I would highly recommend trying the solo technique.
I've never been one to break things, physically, but my behaviours have definitely broken friendships along the way. Certainly sounds like you have experienced a much tougher life than I. Last week I got away from my usual routine and location, and spent some time in the country. I felt like a different person.

 

[Pandora]

clop,

Welcome and thank you for this post.

I empathize with your pain and search for self healing. As far as I can tell psychedelics have the potential to be powerful catalysts for change but the power to actually change resides within us. I find psychedelics to be strong tools but it's up to me to actually do the work. Thus overall I find my forward progress to be slow which is frustrating as life has a limited run.

I wonder if you might be in a similar situation from reading your post.

One thing I got is you have some clarity on where the problem lies. Have you considered or tried talk therapy? Working with the right therapist can also catalyze desired personal change.

And yes, people are cold no doubt. The most common response I got from reaching out and telling folks my husband dropped dead and left me in dire financial straights was laughter and and/or a blunt, "I don't care." So, again, I empathize with your situation and your anger.

In terms of rough rides the long term integration process can be very insight generating and healing but again it requires taking the time to do the work with oneself.

I do hope you will continue to stay in the game, as given enough time, things will change. I sincerely hope they will change for the better for you.

I do hope you will find the answers, healing and release from anger you seek.

I'm glad you are here. Welcome.

 

[CosmicRiver]

hi clop!
can you be more specific about what you feel so i can try to help?

 

[clop]

clop,

Welcome and thank you for this post.

I empathize with your pain and search for self healing. As far as I can tell psychedelics have the potential to be powerful catalysts for change but the power to actually change resides within us. I find psychedelics to be strong tools but it's up to me to actually do the work. Thus overall I find my forward progress to be slow which is frustrating as life has a limited run.

I wonder if you might be in a similar situation from reading your post.

One thing I got is you have some clarity on where the problem lies. Have you considered or tried talk therapy? Working with the right therapist can also catalyze desired personal change.

And yes, people are cold no doubt. The most common response I got from reaching out and telling folks my husband dropped dead and left me in dire financial straights was laughter and and/or a blunt, "I don't care." So, again, I empathize with your situation and your anger.

In terms of rough rides the long term integration process can be very insight generating and healing but again it requires taking the time to do the work with oneself.

I do hope you will continue to stay in the game, as given enough time, things will change. I sincerely hope they will change for the better for you.

I do hope you will find the answers, healing and release from anger you seek.

I'm glad you are here. Welcome.

Thank you for this kind message, I've did talk therapy for a while but I'm a little bit impatient with that. But I'm still not completely close

 

[clop]

Today I struggle a lot with anger and self-hate. I sometimes have strong impulses to destroy stuff. I don't know at what point in my life this became that big, but I'll tell you a bit of my process. Before I was a complier, with not well-defined boundaries and with lots of fear. I started to change that through rage (started around 10 ys ago), and it became a powerful tool to deal with my fear and push me to do/change things. So I also discovered a lot of buried anger in me and started screaming and other lesser damaging actions to try to express that.

So I seeked help in psychedelics and spiritual teachers but it seemed to intensify or show a bigger anger. Now I have thoughts like: "you need to let the anger out to clean it", "you are feeling to have a big explosion there is a while, do it", "a big explosion will help you release all of that" and thoughts that are charged with fear of the consequences of letting flow with anger.

Also when I started my journey I heard that the plants/psychedelics would show me the truth. So I got some beliefs from my psychedelics experiences that are painful like:

- You are a lost case
- You cant hold this egoless state, be happy, be whole
- You are going to be ethernaly trapped into this suffering
- And others

 

[premeditated]

Hi Guys,

I'm new to the new forum. I did a post a few years ago on the old one but I'm returning now. Few years ago I was in a big struggle with suicidal ideation and depression, and a bit has changed although I still experience a lot of anger and sometimes I have suicidal thoughts but they are not that grabby. I will mention that also I have good moments a few times. Today I mostly struggle with anger, I break a lot of things, and I few scared and stop. (Sometimes I think that I should not stop and allow the flow of things just to happen and break until the impulse subsides and exhaust this energy.)

I've taken Mushs, Ayahuasca, Iboga, 5-meo-dmt and Aya+5-meo together, but I still struggle a lot. I few that this spiritual journey brought me a lot of confusion (experiences and spiritual teachers) and I few some advices from "enlightened teachers" doesn't support my healing (I might be wrong). For ex: when I hear eckhart tolle to never try to stop my anger behavior suppressing it, I allow it if after some moments of "shining awareness" to it doesn't dissipate.

Also I got a very traumatic 5-meo-dmt experience, while at the first part was the most beautiful and blissful experience of my life, the second was hell. I got that I was a lost case and it was over. Nothing could heal me and I was sentenced to self-annihilation. Just a bit before this I remmember having a thought of doubt if that state was real, and if I was indeed "healed".

So sorry guys If I was too direct to the point here, but I want to engage with the community and hear from the experienced psychonauts here their view on that. Also if there is someone experienced with psyches, therapy also could be a good help. I want to bring more of my experience and share this journey.

For the last 12 years after abusing drugs in my 20s I have been struggling. 12 years of just existing and only being like 40 percent out of 100 of my total happiness. I had pretty much given up...until someone suggested ketamine therapy. I cried for the first hour and a half bc it reminded me there was another 60 percent of happiness I could access. Abusing meth in my 20s really tucked my brain reward systems up. So I suggest giving it a try. It saved my life drastically.

 

[northape]

So I got some beliefs from my psychedelics experiences that are painful like:

- You are a lost case
- You cant hold this egoless state, be happy, be whole
- You are going to be ethernaly trapped into this suffering
- And others

Never take it literally. Psychedelics bring up repressed stuff first.
Most of it are your own thoughts and ideas. You just got shown what is what, that's all.
It's not the whole truth. Light & Dark are two sides of one coin.

Many spiritual advice are simply dysfunctional for human psychology.
For sure you can go all the way and let anger consume you, but you would burn too.
Heavy physical exercises and manual labour help a lot when it comes to anger.
Anger is a form of energy and when you spend it in some other way, it can't burn that bright.

Just don't rush and take your time. Try to be kind to yourself. Hear what others have to say.
Try finding a good therapist and maybe a local healer who knows what he's doing.

 

[CosmicRiver]

Today I struggle a lot with anger and self-hate. I sometimes have strong impulses to destroy stuff. I don't know at what point in my life this became that big, but I'll tell you a bit of my process. Before I was a complier, with not well-defined boundaries and with lots of fear. I started to change that through rage (started around 10 ys ago), and it became a powerful tool to deal with my fear and push me to do/change things. So I also discovered a lot of buried anger in me and started screaming and other lesser damaging actions to try to express that.

So I seeked help in psychedelics and spiritual teachers but it seemed to intensify or show a bigger anger. Now I have thoughts like: "you need to let the anger out to clean it", "you are feeling to have a big explosion there is a while, do it", "a big explosion will help you release all of that" and thoughts that are charged with fear of the consequences of letting flow with anger.

Also when I started my journey I heard that the plants/psychedelics would show me the truth. So I got some beliefs from my psychedelics experiences that are painful like:

- You are a lost case
- You cant hold this egoless state, be happy, be whole
- You are going to be ethernaly trapped into this suffering
- And others

i agree with everything Northape said

Never take it literally. Psychedelics bring up repressed stuff first.
Most of it are your own thoughts and ideas. You just got shown what is what, that's all.

couldn't say it better.
psychedelics can show you the truth but when it happens is more of an intuition. when you get those negative thoughts it's not psychedelics showing you the truth but psychedelics shining light on your own thought patterns

if you like eckhart tolle i suggest you to find other teachers because what he calls the power of now is mindfulness with another name and you can learn about it and practice it with better teachers that don't give advice like letting your anger out.

i know that having many psychedelic experiences, and on top of that hearing about so many different teachers, can bring confusion. but try to listen to yourself as well. it's clear from what you write that you know that letting your anger manifest is going to bring you and others negative consequences.

right now you know you have a problem with anger and you even know where it comes from. this is something that many people with your issue have yet to figure out. so you're the opposite of a lost case and trapped. you have everything that is necessary to overcome this situation. now you need to pay attention to how your mind acts, to what happens in your mind when anger rises. to recognize your anger (something you already do). often we let our anger control us before even noticing that it has arised in us. but if you can notice it and recognize it for what it is you can also transform it as Northape said.

you basically have to build selfesteem and trust in yourself so that you no longer link anger to the solution to being a complier and not setting boundaries. for now try to love yourself even if you have this anger, because you know its just a defense mechanism. but also keep in mind that you no longer need it. and you will see that every time you will be able to calm your anger, to sit with it without acting violently, to let it pass through you while being still, you will trust yourself and love yourself a little more

there are many teachers or guides or therapists that will explain this much better than me. please look for them. none of us is damned or trapped. our personality is not fixed. we can always change

 

[clop]

there are many teachers or guides or therapists that will explain this much better than me. please look for them. none of us is damned or trapped. our personality is not fixed. we can always change

Thank you for the reply and if you can share this other teachers that are helpful I would like to hear. I currently like Byron Katie and sometimes Adyashanti, and don't watch much of mooji, gangaji, rupert spira.

Many spiritual advice are simply dysfunctional for human psychology.
For sure you can go all the way and let anger consume you, but you would burn too.
Heavy physical exercises and manual labour help a lot when it comes to anger.
Anger is a form of energy and when you spend it in some other way, it can't burn that bright.

Just don't rush and take your time. Try to be kind to yourself. Hear what others have to say.
Try finding a good therapist and maybe a local healer who knows what he's doing.

I think I became very convinced that anger will not pass if I don't let it burn, so I feel this war inside. Also, ideas about resisting this moviment will make it worse. But I feel that there is a part of me that wants my well being, just sometimes concerns about this resistance thing.

 

[northape]

Thank you for the reply and if you can share this other teachers that are helpful I would like to hear. I currently like Byron Katie and sometimes Adyashanti, and don't watch much of mooji, gangaji, rupert spira.

I think I became very convinced that anger will not pass if I don't let it burn, so I feel this war inside. Also, ideas about resisting this moviment will make it worse. But I feel that there is a part of me that wants my well being, just sometimes concerns about this resistance thing.

Firstly, most spiritual stuff is bs, sorry. They assume that you are looking at it from the right angle, but it's seldom the case.
We are full of self-deception, hidden agendas and other tendencies that cloud our judgment.
Basically, we only hear ideas we already know and understand. Authentic spirituality is about transcending our egos, but an ego can't transcend itself.
That's why a living teacher is mandatory. He's like a therapist that calls you out on your bs and when you are ready points to the door.
Finding such a guy nowadays is close to impossible. This internet spirituality is a money scam, imo.

You'd have much more success with modern psychology. To let go of yourself, you need to first build a healthy self.
A therapist asks right questions for a living. He doesn't have many hidden agendas. You pay for his time and that's it.
You can try checking out cognitive behavioral therapy or internal family systems. Both are good modern approaches to your problems.
Follow a Buddhist motto: find a tool that is useful to you. It could be any tool, from any system of thought.
Why follow an online guru if his advice makes no difference in your everyday life?

So when it comes to anger, you created a whole another level of confusion following so-called spiritual traditions.
That's why I said look for a therapist. You have lots of ideas from different systems, and just that creates confusion.
Choose ONE tool and use it, or find a guy who knows his stuff and let him guide you.
No need to create a shamanic mystery out of it or make it a lifelong spiritual struggle.
Fix your everyday ego first.

Kindness can be harsh too. Actually, it's the best kind

 

[CosmicRiver]

Thank you for the reply and if you can share this other teachers that are helpful I would like to hear. I currently like Byron Katie and sometimes Adyashanti, and don't watch much of mooji, gangaji, rupert spira.

i don't know many teachers and i thought i never heard of those two but now i looked them up and remembered i had read something about Adyashanti. i found most helpful for me reading some books by Thich Nhat Hanh, because they convinced me that practicing mindfulness could help me, and in fact it did help me a lot. it was soon after reading Eckhart Tolle and that's why i have said that about him

I think I became very convinced that anger will not pass if I don't let it burn, so I feel this war inside. Also, ideas about resisting this moviment will make it worse. But I feel that there is a part of me that wants my well being, just sometimes concerns about this resistance thing.

i think that like fire it's better to extinguish it than to let it burn