Is 98,5% lye good?

[Rush56]

Hi guys.

I've been struggling to get a pure NAOH, just can't find it around my area online.. I managed to get 98,5% hydroxide, but i've seen people saying only 100% pure should be used.. When i got it i asked seller what is the other 1,5% and i got this:

Sodium hydroxide % (w/w) 99 min Acidimetric titration
Sodium carbonate % (w/w) 0.4 max Gas-phase stripping technique
Sodium chloride mg/kg 200 max Argentometric titration
Sodium sulphate mg/kg 120 max Turbodimetric/IC
Sodium chlorate mg/kg 60 max IC
Silicium dioxide mg/kg 20 max Atomic spectrometry
Aluminium mg/kg 1 max Atomic spectrometry
Arsenic mg/kg 0.6 max Atomic spectrometry
Cadmium mg/kg 0.2 max Atomic spectrometry
Calcium mg/kg 10 max Atomic spectrometry
Chromium mg/kg 2 max Atomic spectrometry
Copper mg/kg 0.2 max Atomic spectrometry
Iron mg/kg 10 max Photometric
Lead mg/kg 0.5 max Atomic spectrometry
Nickel mg/kg 10 max Photometric

Is there any reason to fear anything could be pulled with solvent from this?

Best Regards!

 

[Rush56]

So if i convert everything in % per kg of lye

Sodium hydroxide >=99%
Sodium carbonate <=0,4%
Sodium chloride <=0,02%
Sodium sulphate <=0,012%
Sodium chlorate <=0,006%
Silicium dioxide <=0,002%
Aluminium <=0,0001%
Arsenic <=0,00006%
Cadmium <=0,00002%
Calcium <=0,001%
Chromium <=0,0002%
Copper <=0,00002%
Iron <=0,001%
Lead <=0,00005%
Nickel <=0,001%

what do you guys think..? Guess those trace elements shouldnt be a problem?

 

[endlessness]

Here's how I would answer this question.. I'd go to google and look up "safety limit X" or "maximum daily intake X" or "X content in food/water"or similar keywords (substitute X for the name of the substances mentioned in your product).

So for example, say you use 100g lye for your extraction, that would mean, according to the numbers you got, max 0.1mg aluminium. So after googling, in page four of this document it says there can be up to 1mg aluminium per liter of drinking water in some places, which is 10x more than you'll have in your extraction, and you aren't drinking your raw extraction chemicals (hopefully ) so you'll be even less exposed to it. So at least in the sense of aluminium, you're def safe. Now do this for other chemicals, and let us know what answer you come up with

I'd imagine it will be ok but I would be sure to check it first as mentioned above. Post back what you find out! Hope that helps

 

[Propello]

Google 'food grade lye'.

1 Answer. Pure lye is by itself always food grade. There is nothing toxic about lye (although it's corrosive even at low-ish concentrations). When a manufacturer sells you food grade lye, they are guaranteeing you that it is not contaminated with anything unpleasant.

 

[Rush56]

Here's how I would answer this question.. I'd go to google and look up "safety limit X" or "maximum daily intake X" or "X content in food/water"or similar keywords (substitute X for the name of the substances mentioned in your product).

So for example, say you use 100g lye for your extraction, that would mean, according to the numbers you got, max 0.1mg aluminium. So after googling, in page four of this document it says there can be up to 1mg aluminium per liter of drinking water in some places, which is 10x more than you'll have in your extraction, and you aren't drinking your raw extraction chemicals (hopefully ) so you'll be even less exposed to it. So at least in the sense of aluminium, you're def safe. Now do this for other chemicals, and let us know what answer you come up with

I'd imagine it will be ok but I would be sure to check it first as mentioned above. Post back what you find out! Hope that helps

So here's what i get and i converted values for 100g lye instead of 1kg, which would be for aprox. 1g extract?

Sodium hydroxide % (w/w) 99 min
Sodium carbonate % (w/w) 0.4 - I suppose carbonate is ok, since it's also used to wash pulls?
Sodium chloride 20 mg/100g -- 530mg/day is recommended dietary intake
Sodium sulphate 12 mg/100g -- Ranging from 0 - 1000mg/L in drinking water in US.
Sodium chlorate 6 mg/100g -- 36 µg/kg of chlorate per day for 12 weeks did not result in any adverse effects in human volunteers, which is 2.5mg for 70kg person. Lethal dose is 5-20g

Silicium dioxide 2 mg/100g -- 20-30mg is estimated daily consumption from food and water
Aluminium 0.1 mg/100g -- from 0.001-1mg/L of water
Arsenic 0.06 mg/100g -- Up to 0.01mg/L in drinking water is considered safe
Cadmium 0.02 mg/100g -- Daily oral intake is 0.01-0.035mg
Calcium 1 mg/100g -- Recommended daily intake 800-1000mg
Chromium 0.2 mg/100g-- Recommended daily intake 0.05-0.2mg. 1mg is suggested upper limit
Copper 0.02 mg/100g -- Recommended daily intake up to 0.9mg, upper limit around 10mg
Iron 1 mg/100g -- Up to 8mg/day is recommended
Lead 0.05 mg/100g -- 0.25mg/day is tolerable
Nickel 1 mg/100g-- 1mg/day is upper limit

So what do you think? It's all in limits, and considering this is for 100g lye, the values get much smaller per dose of extract. If anything at all would come through..

 

[endlessness]

Seems like you're fine

Good luck with your extraction !

 

[DLMSTD]

I'm no experienced expert but I had been using white tulip caustic soda, which was easily found in coles. Ever since this Coronavirus the stock had suddenly disappeared and all that was left was other brands which wasn't pure sodium hydroxide.

I don't know where you're from but I've found that 'Kegland Distribution Pty Ltd' online store was selling 100% sodium hydroxide. Although I think they only ship around Australia and even then the Coronavirus means shipping is delayed upwards of 10 days. These are tough times.

I remember reading somewhere that ideally you want 100% or no less than 99%, remember the leftover is what you'd be smoking.

Sorry if this doesn't help I was struggling to find 100% myself ! You might be able to get away with 98.5%.

 

[Rush56]

Could i premix lye and water, put in some solvent to try to pull out anything that would be pulled from lye, then dispose that and use that solution for extraction? Or is there any special reason i should add lye directly to acidifed water with spice? If not, it would be even easier if premixed and then just adding and checking pH?

 

[null24]

Wait a minnit y'all. Lead. Like in the brains of the impoverished children of Flint Michigan, not the innate character-driven ability to do so that we wish our elected officials possessed.

Is voluntary possible lead in anything ever worth the risk at any level? Also it's not like it leaves, lead accumulates-do this over and over and OP might be bashing his roommates skull open in a year for some hair in the shower drain.

I understand there is an unliklihood of it crossing over into the finished product, and only through sloppy methods that even only a small amount could possibly do so, even within the so called safe threshold, but without knowledge of other possible environmental sources, should one not shy completely away from any possible exposure?

I mean, lead. What am I missing? And are not cadmium and arsenic heavy metals and aluminum toxic? Ugh, IDK, I just stick with 100% or nothing at all. Could some of these materials solvable or crossover in a NPS?

In the US, go to an Ace and ask for 100% lye drain opener. That's the brand name. Four bucks. Just don't look like a tweaker when you do it, or pay cash.

Could i premix lye and water, put in some solvent to try to pull out anything that would be pulled from lye, then dispose that and use that solution for extraction? Or is there any special reason i should add lye directly to acidifed water with spice? If not, it would be even easier if premixed and then just adding and checking pH?

Premixing is good form, but I don't think that you could DCM the lead out.

 

[RoundAbout]

Is voluntary possible lead in anything ever worth the risk at any level? Also it's not like it leaves, lead accumulates-do this over and over and OP might be bashing his roommates skull open in a year for some hair in the shower drain.

I understand there is an unliklihood of it crossing over into the finished product, and only through sloppy methods that even only a small amount could possibly do so, even within the so called safe threshold, but without knowledge of other possible environmental sources, should one not shy completely away from any possible exposure?

I mean, lead. What am I missing? And are not cadmium and arsenic heavy metals and aluminum toxic? Ugh, IDK, I just stick with 100% or nothing at all. Could some of these materials solvable or crossover in a NPS?

That's 0.5 ppm lead contamination maximum in the lye. For reference, here is a study on heavy metal contamination in cigarette tobacco (NCBI). Average lead concentration is 0.44 ppm. mg/kg, ug/g and ppm are all 1:1:1.

100% lye probably just contains less sodium carbonate etc., I wouldn't be surprised if it had similar amounts of heavy metal contamination.

Lead leaves the body slowly as far as I know, depends what sort of tissue it is in obviously. Biological half-life around 10 years in bone according to the all knowing Wikipedia (no, I did not look at sources).

 

[Rush56]

I've found a product stated 99,9%:

Sodium Hydroxide Pellets 97.0 – 100.5% ACS

Please note: For Collection orders this product requires photographic identification.

apcpure.com

In specifications it says:

Specification
Minimum Assay: 97.0-100.5%

Molecular Formula: NaOH

Molecular Weight: 40.0 g/mol

Melting Point 318.4 °C
Appearance in 10% Solution: Clear and Colour less

Chloride (Cl): <200ppm
Sulphate (SO4): <50ppm
Iron (Fe): <10ppm

Heavy Metals (as Pb): <20ppm

Arsenic (As): ppm

Lead (Pb): <0.5ppm

Mercury (Hg): <1ppm

So even though its stated 99,9% it has similar values of impurities as the one i got..

 

[downwardsfromzero]

"Pure" is a relative term. Reducing the amounts of these common contaminants to an undetectable level would make the product prohibitively expensive.

 

[Rush56]

So you guys think i'm safe with this product?

I've came across another one in my country they claim its 99,6% pure, but i did not get an answer yet, i requested a document with ingredients/impurities..

I'd preffer getting a food grade one, but it seems i just can't get it in my country, been browsing, asking shops via email and so on.. I can't even find one in international shops in EU.. I see there is a lot of options for US citizens as well as Australians, but can't find anything from EU to order.

 

[Brennendes Wasser]

Sodium hydroxide >=99%
...
Nickel <=0,001%

Thats totally fine - if you buy non-hyper purity sodium hydroxyde then it will still be designed for regular household activities and there are still very strict regulations regarding any potentially harmful substances.
The trace amounts of toxic metals cant be avoided normally - they are mostly present in any good that is manufactured from ores or by mining activities. If you would look with just high enough sensitivity you would even find Nickel in apples and so on.

On the other hand you can see that the stuff which is guilty for lowering the purity is only a mixture of harmless other sodium salts. Mostly when buying any salt you will get minor salt combinations with other cations / anions and these are just other food safe compounds - ranging from oxides to chlorides.

So the guy that told you that you need 100 % purity was far off - especially as you will not get ANY of these into your final product - Naphtha will not dissolve any heavy metals and also none of the other sodium ions.