journey awaits: First Oral Harmalas & DMT emesh

[artificer]

A journey awaits me tonight. I have specific answers I'm looking for so I'll get right to the questions, and I'm looking for some support being that I'm nervous as hell even though I've wanted breakthrough experience for several years.

I've seen posts about "use the search function/this has been covered in many previous posts" and "there's 1000 results if you search for 'how to dissolve harmalas'" - but I get just a few results when I search for any combination of the following: harm/harmaline/harmine/hcl/salt/fb/oral. So my first question is: what am I doing wrong with search function? Is search function limited because I'm a new user?

As you can see, I'm interested in how to take harmala extract. I have full spectrum fb and also HCl, unfortunately no isolated harmine right now.

I've played around with GVG and got a "taste" for the spice, never quite leaving this world - though I could certainly sense the bus to hyperspace would take me there if I put more in the meter. Freshly constructed e-mesh rig, tested enough to know it'll be solid/reliable.

I'm assuming this has been covered many times before, can someone point me to links for posts that go into detail for oral harmala intake? Or explain it here if you care to take the time For now, I'd rather go the oral route than sublingual. I have empty capsules and adhering to MAOI catered diet.

The other question I have: are there adverse effects to taking harmalas twice in one day? It's a rainy day, so was thinking I'd take 150mg harmala extract by itself to observe the affects, and then 5+ hours later take 150mg again with intent to e-mesh spice.

FWIW, MHRB A->B extract is how spice was acquired - without the shared knowledge here I wouldn't be this far, otherwise flying this ship solo

All feedback/criticism welcome! Glad this community exists....
~artificer

 

[Voidmatrix]

Good Morning.

The search function is a little wonky and can be somewhat hard to use.

This post, but point 5 in particular, may be of use to you.

I sometimes take harmalas throughout the day (example, oral administration prior to sublingual complexed DMT, then 3-4g rue tea at night) and have not noticed any negative subjective mental or physical health effects.

One love

 

[artificer]

Hello,

First - thank you for quick reply!

Yes, I came across this post earlier and it is certainly one I keep coming back to; it has good info for mg of dose and other useful links - but I'm still wondering method of oral harmala extract administration.

I see FB harmala extract to be used for smoking, and HCl version for disolving in water. But for basic oral administration, does it matter if it's FB or HCl?

Does it matter if it's in capsule, or dry powder on tongue, or is it best stirred in tea, with lemon perhaps?

If dropping harmala extract in a drink, is there a tek for this?

 

[Voidmatrix]

Hello,

First - thank you for quick reply!

Yes, I came across this post earlier and it is certainly one I keep coming back to; it has good info for mg of dose and other useful links - but I'm still wondering method of oral harmala extract administration.

I see FB harmala extract to be used for smoking, and HCl version for disolving in water. But for basic oral administration, does it matter if it's FB or HCl?

Does it matter if it's in capsule, or dry powder on tongue, or is it best stirred in tea, with lemon perhaps?

If dropping harmala extract in a drink, is there a tek for this?

I'm not sure if it matters. I have freebase and usually just eat some and wash it down with water.

I'm not sure if there's a best method outside of subjective preference. I'd recommend trying multiple ROAs and seeing which one suits you the best.

I can ostensibly see harmalas dissolved in lemon juice being a good method for faster activation after it hits the stomach. The capsule would probably take longer to activate in the stomach because the stomach acid would first have to break down the capsule before the harmalas themselves.

Don't necessarily think a specific tek would be needed if just adding it to a drink however.

My apologies for my brevity. I'm in a weird sublingual experience right now lol.

One love

 

[artificer]

Haha how dare you put that under your tongue :thumb_up:

I'm just over hour into first harmala extract experience. So far, fairly calming if anything... if this calming effect carries through to tryptamine experience, it should be good (little worried about extended anxiety segments)

I heated up water and added just a bit of lemon and honey, then 150mg full spectrum harmala HCl. They weren't kidding about the glow under blacklight, it's like a yellow highlighter was dropped in there.

imo has the same bitterness/taste as whole rue seed, but glad the desirable alkaloids were isolated anyway.

If there's no ill effects I'll do this again after few hours and see if I'm feeling brave enough for spice. If not, it'll be psilohuasca. Or both if really feelin good.

With 150mg oral harmalas, 20mg of spice is my current target 90 minutes later, unless anyone wants to chime in for suggestions? I still haven't broke through yet....

 

[Voidmatrix]

The effect should carry through and the come up should be a little slower and softer. The tryptamine rush is still very identifiable.

Yeah... the taste isn't pleasant. But I am glad it's not any worse..

I encourage a Spice journey while on mushrooms if your haven't tried that yet... very beautiful.

Depending on your body weight and composition, that combination could very well lead to breakthrough.

Best of luck

One love

 

[murklan]

I guess this in obvious but I just want to say that it seems like there are individual differences in how we metabolize and or absorb these substances. Like Harmalines.

For me I used 25-45 mg sublingual extract of syrian rue (HCL) prior to smoking DMT infused herbs, then I went on to take the MAOI orally for a longer/stronger effect. I'm now taking around 230 mg orally and still don't feel much of the harmalas in its own. But it really works well and are noticeable together with smoked DMT.

So your amount 'needed' might vary.

 

[artificer]

Yeah I had zero experience with harmala effects prior to last night. I underestimated harmine/harmala HCl extract on its' own, took two doses 7.5 hours apart, first 150mg then 180mg because I hardly felt anything from the 150.

You're right about individual metabolizing differences... after I read about "half-life" for harmine and harmala, I figured after 7.5 hours the first dose was considerably worn off, and I barely noticed anything with first dose.

45 minutes into second dose and I could feel the effects stronger than any point of first dose (augmented audio, body buzz) and by 90 minute mark and beyond I couldn't hold my fingers still, never vomited but had persistent nausea, and delayed vision/focus - anytime I changed what I wanted to look at, it took a second or two of blurr while eyes honed in on new focal point.

I ended up not vaping spice because all of the nausea, and physical effects - more than anything was afraid of getting into a spot in a trip where I would get in a mental loop & give myself anxiety attack because I didn't get familiar enough with harmalas on their own. Yeah yeah, I know, plenty of other posts that suggest this - but it's so easy to get impatient.... until visualizing the e-mesh in hand and realize "oh-no, I ain't ready yet".

For the record, that harmala experience was, overall, wonderful. Aside from the physical exhaustion, and I believe that to be harmaline doing this more than harmine (will have to isolate and experiment there too), there was this effect it had on thought process that let me connect a lot of dots, and it was as if the preoccupation of connecting dots directly equated to being more at peace.

And then I sat on the floor, eyes closed, and realized I was having some elaborate, colorful CEV's while focused on just breathing, then the mind went back to connecting dots. Up til the very end I didn't feel sleepy; I guess it was the body buzz that kept me awake, but thoughts were calmed down (and perhaps even slowed down), yet they felt less cloudy somehow than being sober.

After this experience, I have absolute conviction there's more to the maoi/dmt combo than just one potentiating the other. Have you ever dated a narcissist, and broke up cuz it was necessary thing to do (believe me) but miss em every day months later? biggest mind fuck ever, and it plays into this experimenting - I'm looking to shed emotional baggage. Generally speaking I can navigate mushroom trips alright these days to avoid "bad trips" but the DMT is intimidating in this regard, just too hyped up about it I guess.

So as far as harmala effects for going into a mushroom &/or DMT trip, I see now that it helps set the stage. Without it I think I can tend toward overly intense/emotional, and more recently coupled with duality. I'll say "love/hate" to illustrate, but I don't have capacity to hate, that's ridiculous. The dot-connecting effect of harmalas have integrated conflicting dispositions, and I noticed increase in general curiosity and also more about processing the thought at hand linearly without another thought intervening and jacking things up.

In other words, it let me get lost looking forward - I'm sort of struggling to pinpoint the effect. Any thoughts of the past seemed to process without second-guessing myself or regret; they instead kept forward momentum. It's a good stage for healing/hyperspace.

To the reader: keep in mind this is only strong haramala experience I've had so far. YMMV

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Yeah, that really sounds like some of my early days experiences with plain rue harmalas or rue tea. You're right about the harmaline because (IME) a simple magnesium reduction of the mixture transforms the experience significantly. It most definitely worth getting the hang of harmalas alone before adding DMT to the mix, and also good that you've had a foretaste of plain DMT.

Take it nice and steady, avoid overthinking things and you'll get there in the end!

 

[Voidmatrix]

While I now completely agree with DF0 in regards to honing skills on harmalas alone, I definitely didn't go that route. My first experiences with harmalas were in changa blends.

Now I drink rue tea nightly. 3-4g. It's relaxing as well as a way to acclimate oneself to harmala effects.

In your journeying with combined harmalas and DMT, you may experience a necessary purge. It's not a bad thing, just what it is. I've learned to just accept it. Once the initial purge passes you should feel better and "cleansed" in a way.

You may need less DMT to breakthrough if sufficient harmalas are in your system. I share your anxiety, but typically for me, once the come up is over, my anxiety disappears. My anxiety stems from the "unknown" but dissipates once within the ineffable and unknown.

Keep on keeping on.

One love

 

[downwardsfromzero]

You're right, VM - while typing my last post the equivocal and contradictory thoughts floated by: "Well, of course it works just as well the other way." Language can be so capricious - and implied judgement from culturally determined filters of meaning often misleads those who see lack of praise for the converse of any given statement as implying a less favourable view of it as such, when in fact it is rather difficult to articulate a faceted and nuanced viewpoint simultaneously both comprehensively and concisely. Indeed, my admiration goes out to those who manage to do so.

Basically, I hardly ever smoke so changa effectively dropped off my radar for a moment. Use of an e-mesh here does perhaps imply that actual changa is somewhat out of the question. It's very tempting just to go and smoke some changa now, however :twisted:

 

[artificer]

While I now completely agree with DF0 in regards to honing skills on harmalas alone, I definitely didn't go that route. My first experiences with harmalas were in changa blends.

Now I drink rue tea nightly. 3-4g. It's relaxing as well as a way to acclimate oneself to harmala effects.

In your journeying with combined harmalas and DMT, you may experience a necessary purge. It's not a bad thing, just what it is. I've learned to just accept it. Once the initial purge passes you should feel better and "cleansed" in a way.

You may need less DMT to breakthrough if sufficient harmalas are in your system. I share your anxiety, but typically for me, once the come up is over, my anxiety disappears. My anxiety stems from the "unknown" but dissipates once within the ineffable and unknown.

Keep on keeping on.

One love

Do you find it challenging to maintain proper diet for nightly rue tea? Use of MAOI is new to me, and has me a little freaked out. I see the general guidelines for diet dos/don'ts but worry I'll accidently eat something that'll ruin my day with MAOI.

I'd be ok with purge if it happens, especially now that I've got that first harmala experience out of the way and can go into next harmala experience more prepared.

I appreciate the feedback, it's good to hear the anxiety disappears. Entering the unknown.. I sort of wish I never knew about DMT and just ran into someone that handed it to me one day to get first breakthrough under my belt without having a notion to "worry".

 

[Voidmatrix]

While I now completely agree with DF0 in regards to honing skills on harmalas alone, I definitely didn't go that route. My first experiences with harmalas were in changa blends.

Now I drink rue tea nightly. 3-4g. It's relaxing as well as a way to acclimate oneself to harmala effects.

In your journeying with combined harmalas and DMT, you may experience a necessary purge. It's not a bad thing, just what it is. I've learned to just accept it. Once the initial purge passes you should feel better and "cleansed" in a way.

You may need less DMT to breakthrough if sufficient harmalas are in your system. I share your anxiety, but typically for me, once the come up is over, my anxiety disappears. My anxiety stems from the "unknown" but dissipates once within the ineffable and unknown.

Keep on keeping on.

One love

Do you find it challenging to maintain proper diet for nightly rue tea? Use of MAOI is new to me, and has me a little freaked out. I see the general guidelines for diet dos/don'ts but worry I'll accidently eat something that'll ruin my day with MAOI.

I'd be ok with purge if it happens, especially now that I've got that first harmala experience out of the way and can go into next harmala experience more prepared.

I appreciate the feedback, it's good to hear the anxiety disappears. Entering the unknown.. I sort of wish I never knew about DMT and just ran into someone that handed it to me one day to get first breakthrough under my belt without having a notion to "worry".

I'm already pretty particular about my diet, and find that these concerns see more appropriate to consider with medications. Harmalas are RIMAs, a very weak MAOI. My diet has shifted some to be able to handle it better, but I don't have that much concern really. Many dietary requirements around MAOIs comes mainly in consideration for medications that are themselves MAOI. These are stronger and if proper diet isn't adhered to a hypertensive crisis can occur.

Just slowly test different foods out with harmalas are in your system and take note if anything occurs. I have yet to really notice anything negative with my diet and harmalas.

I can say that I'm glad I knew nothing about DMT and that it thrust its way into my life in the manner in which it did. I find it best, when one's first getting their feet wet, to avoid too much input of other individuals' experiences, so as to have little to no expectation, increasing one's receptivity to what the molecule has to offer then. Power of suggestion can be strong and hard to notice.

The expanse and DMT experience will always have something new to show you.

One love

 

[downwardsfromzero]

My diet hasn't been that different while using rue tea daily except that I had to cut out caffeine entirely to avoid unpleasant over-stimulation and cardiovascular effects when trying to sleep. I count this as a positive effect; I was worried that abruptly stopping caffeine would cause terrible headaches but it turns out that the rue prevented this from happening, quite in contrast to previous attempts to stop using caffeine without the help of rue tea.

The other things I would avoid are certain types of fermented foods such as ripe blue cheese, aged pickled herrings and yeast extract. I wouldn't say they were dangerous but I prefer the experience without the influence of such things. I also avoid strong spices (despite having kind of billed myself as the Nexus' erstwhile nutmeg ambassador for a time...)

 

[artificer]

That's interesting about the caffeine - I've definitely cut back, and perhaps don't really need it right now, I just have a bit to avoid being irritable like I've experienced in the past. Maybe I'll try cutting it out entirely to see what happens.

The other thing I'm proud to say I've cut out is kratom - 96 hours without it after being on it for 2 years (albeit relatively low dose). After that last harmala tea experience, it's been strangely easy to not miss the kratom.

I've added couple of substances to my daily routine (at least for now; experimenting):

Capsules with cordyceps, reishi, and lion's mane mushrooms, and also African Dream Root/Silene capensis.

The capsules have noticeable affect on mental focus and memory retention, as well as some other, more difficult to pinpoint effects like what feels like deeper breathing capacity, and possibly slightly increased heart rate, although my normal resting heart rate is way lower than the average person.

The Silene capensis has been positive experience thus far, with noticeable dream retention and also waking up earlier without alarm clock and feeling more recharged - only in tea so far. I see it's listed as potential changa add-on, haven't tried that yet....

It's wonderful to have place like the nexus to share these experiences and learn from others that are also inclined to experiment

 

[artificer]

VM, DF0, do either of you have any particular way you prefer to prepare the rue tea? Roasting seeds, etc? I've seen plenty of posts about it, but since you're both daily users of it, I figured you might have tidbit more experience with anything that may or may not be worthwhile in how it's prepared.

 

[Voidmatrix]

VM, DF0, do either of you have any particular way you prefer to prepare the rue tea? Roasting seeds, etc? I've seen plenty of posts about it, but since you're both daily users of it, I figured you might have tidbit more experience with anything that may or may not be worthwhile in how it's prepared.

I roast them until they all pop, and then boil them for a while and allow it to steep for some time with whatever other tea I am drinking with it. I will be trying the following soon to see if it's more powerful and effective: roast, grind, boil, steep, enjoy.

One love

 

[Voidmatrix]

You're right, VM - while typing my last post the equivocal and contradictory thoughts floated by: "Well, of course it works just as well the other way." Language can be so capricious - and implied judgement from culturally determined filters of meaning often misleads those who see lack of praise for the converse of any given statement as implying a less favourable view of it as such, when in fact it is rather difficult to articulate a faceted and nuanced viewpoint simultaneously both comprehensively and concisely. Indeed, my admiration goes out to those who manage to do so.

Basically, I hardly ever smoke so changa effectively dropped off my radar for a moment. Use of an e-mesh here does perhaps imply that actual changa is somewhat out of the question. It's very tempting just to go and smoke some changa now, however :twisted:

Ha! I somehow missed this! Lol. I think oral harmalas are a bit different in flavor of experience and effect from them being smoalked. Hence, maybe, mastery of oral harmalas? Lol

We're definitely sharing some reciprocity my friend.

One love

Ps. Did you ever smoalk that changa?

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Ps. Did you ever smoalk that changa?

Not yet, it got a bit late that night and I wanted to be able to sleep. I promise myself, soon. The Brugmansia is flowering and I have a comfy recliner in my porch so it's pretty much ready to roll. The light evenings mean the kids take forever to go to bed, though, and this complicates logistics somewhat.

In keeping with the thread title, I'd like to give the oral harmalas + e-mesh a go as well.

 

[Voidmatrix]

Ps. Did you ever smoalk that changa?

Not yet, it got a bit late that night and I wanted to be able to sleep. I promise myself, soon. The Brugmansia is flowering and I have a comfy recliner in my porch so it's pretty much ready to roll. The light evenings mean the kids take forever to go to bed, though, and this complicates logistics somewhat.

In keeping with the thread title, I'd like to give the oral harmalas + e-mesh a go as well.

Last thing you need is the tires interrupting the journey asking for milk:lol:

And do it! It's pretty awesome. My first time, I drank some rue tea just to chill out and didn't consider how it would effect 15mg fb... a very wonderful surprise.

One love