I think there's something else in psychotria as well. Maybe i just imagined it because i expected chacruna-ayahuasca to be different somehow from jurema. With psychotria i believed the visuals where more colourfull and also when it started to work and when during the landing, i had visuals for a while where the other effects where not yet/ no longer fully noticeable. Maybe there's bufotenine in it or something.
-
Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).
"Jungle Spice" - Mystery Alkaloids of Mimosa Root Bark
- Thread starter Entropymancer
- Start date
69ron
Rising Star
polytrip said:
That's no doubt the DMT N-Oxide in it that you are feeling. DMT N-Oxide has slightly different effects from DMT. It is milder and SWIM finds it more pleasant than DMT. Psychotria, being a leafy material, contains a lot of its DMT in the form of DMT N-Oxide. Leaves generate oxygen and so the DMT in the leaves being surrounded by oxygen is very likely to oxidize into DMT N-Oxide.
DMT N-Oxide has a slightly slower onset, slightly longer peak, and slightly longer overall duration. It’s water soluble while DMT is practically insoluble in water. DMT N-Oxide is more relaxed, less speedy, and less "psychedelic" while remaining very visual. DMT N-Oxde is the form of DMT most often found in Yopo and Vilca (along with higher amounts of 5-HO-DMT and 5-HO-DMT N-Oxide usually).
I believe the primary reason that people find ayahuasca made with psychotria more mellow is because it contains more DMT N-Oxide than Mimosa hostilis usually does.
If this is true then i would say that although you need a larger dose of DMT N-oxide to notice it's effects, the experience can be more powerfull then with freebase DMT. Or to put it another way, the amount taken just before the side effects become unbearable, with N-oxide can get you to a further place, because of it being more mellow.
69ron
Rising Star
SWIM has made DMT N-oxide from DMT. You can do this easily ( from "Trout's notes on the genus Desmodium" ) :
It's a yellow goo that is smokable. It's VERY NICE. There's less "mind fuck" compared with DMT.
SWIM wants to make more soon. He's planning to do some solubility tests with it.
It's a yellow goo that is smokable. It's VERY NICE. There's less "mind fuck" compared with DMT.
SWIM wants to make more soon. He's planning to do some solubility tests with it.
what is the best way to clean for possible xylene leftovers in jungle spice apart from letting it evaporate?
is jungle spice soluble in alcohol? What about xylene, is it miscible in alcohol? If answer is ´no´ for first and ´yes´ for second, this would be perfect way to clean with non-toxic substance, just washing with alcohol, but I guess jungle spice will be soluble in alcohol
what other ways would there be?
is jungle spice soluble in alcohol? What about xylene, is it miscible in alcohol? If answer is ´no´ for first and ´yes´ for second, this would be perfect way to clean with non-toxic substance, just washing with alcohol, but I guess jungle spice will be soluble in alcohol
what other ways would there be?
SWIM´s toluene pull yielded quite little jungle spice (0.4g). Here´s a pic:
For sure there is some dmt in it, as SWIM had even washed the last hard-to-scrape crystals in a dmt freeze precip glass and thrown the alcohol together with the evapping jungle spice.
It looks like some dark red brownish snot that one would have in the nose after many days dancing in a festival with dusty dancefloor. There are a few crystally formations but its mostly a thick goo.
SWIM will probably redissolve in 99,5 ethyl alcohol and filter in the vacuum filter to remove dust that fell during the evaporation, and then evap again with some thin cloth on top to diminish dust. SWIM hopes this will also give even more time for any remaining toluene to evap.
SWIM doesn’t know yet if he will run a hot nafta on it to separate dmt from the “pure” jungle spice. Maybe he will at least try before with all alkaloids together
What is the dosage of jungle spice, only some 20 or so mg, wasn’t it? SWIM´s scale is not accurate enough, only 0,1g.. a 0,01g scale will be there only in a couple of weeks.
Maybe SWIM will try a tiny bit just to see, maybe wait for scale.. let´s see
For sure there is some dmt in it, as SWIM had even washed the last hard-to-scrape crystals in a dmt freeze precip glass and thrown the alcohol together with the evapping jungle spice.
It looks like some dark red brownish snot that one would have in the nose after many days dancing in a festival with dusty dancefloor. There are a few crystally formations but its mostly a thick goo.
SWIM will probably redissolve in 99,5 ethyl alcohol and filter in the vacuum filter to remove dust that fell during the evaporation, and then evap again with some thin cloth on top to diminish dust. SWIM hopes this will also give even more time for any remaining toluene to evap.
SWIM doesn’t know yet if he will run a hot nafta on it to separate dmt from the “pure” jungle spice. Maybe he will at least try before with all alkaloids together
What is the dosage of jungle spice, only some 20 or so mg, wasn’t it? SWIM´s scale is not accurate enough, only 0,1g.. a 0,01g scale will be there only in a couple of weeks.
Maybe SWIM will try a tiny bit just to see, maybe wait for scale.. let´s see
SWIM redissolved in 99,5 ethanol, filtered (to remove dust particles), and let evap again with thin cover to prevent dust
After this redissolving, the jungle spice lost the red tint, now its more brownish colour. Because of the extra time it had to evap in the redissolving, it also is not so oily anymore, its more of a waxy consistence (so I agree with burnt when he mentioned once that he thinks the oily in jungle spice is a lot because of leftover solvents)
After this redissolving, the jungle spice lost the red tint, now its more brownish colour. Because of the extra time it had to evap in the redissolving, it also is not so oily anymore, its more of a waxy consistence (so I agree with burnt when he mentioned once that he thinks the oily in jungle spice is a lot because of leftover solvents)
yea doing the ethanol dissolve and evaporate helps remove residual toluene from the oily mess. this is especially useful for those who don't have fancy vacuum rotary evaporators and SWIM would recommend SWIYs do this as toluene is nasty and tough to fully evaporate on its own.
yes SWIMs few experiences with this mixture have been quite intersting and pleasant. whatever else is in there certainly alters the effects. does anyone else find that the stuff takes like an extra few seconds to come on? with white spice SWIM is tripping before the pipe is gone. with jungle spice the pipe gets put down SWIM lays back and then it starts. anyone else get this?
was quite dissapointing actually.. At least SWIM's jungle spice (with some dmt) was NOT stronger than usual dmt crystals, and the trip felt like exactly the same..
^^SWIM also don't notice any differences in the trip itself just in the potency.
...and it is very similar for SWIM's friend of a friend. Below is a report taken from the evidence of a beta carboline like structure in jungle spice
The 10mg dose he tried did not have any immediate effects, definitely not from the DMT-N-oxide (which is not noticeably active at these low doses). But it did have a MAOI-like activity that was empirically assayed by smoking some dmt few minutes later.
His observations are consistent with the notion that jungle spice is a mixture of active tryptamines and some MAOI. For SWIM's FOAF, (judging from his own bioassays) this is the most prevalent theory.
Endlessness, could SWIY repeat the same experiment, i.e smoke 10mg Jungle and then some dmt few minutes later?
This guy had apparently thoroughly washed his xylene extracted jungle spice with hot (~80 C) naphtha to get all the dmt out many many times. All that was left out was an oil that would never get solid (only in minus temperatures) and contained the elusive jungle spice alkaloids plus any dmt-N-oxide.Infundibulum said:
The 10mg dose he tried did not have any immediate effects, definitely not from the DMT-N-oxide (which is not noticeably active at these low doses). But it did have a MAOI-like activity that was empirically assayed by smoking some dmt few minutes later.
His observations are consistent with the notion that jungle spice is a mixture of active tryptamines and some MAOI. For SWIM's FOAF, (judging from his own bioassays) this is the most prevalent theory.
Endlessness, could SWIY repeat the same experiment, i.e smoke 10mg Jungle and then some dmt few minutes later?
^^Ah ok the difference with SWIMs imaginary friend is that his jungle spice was a mixture of spice and the red oil. SWIM did not further purify it as SWIM believes the major effect is from spice and that whatever is in the oil potentiates it somehow probably through MAOI like effect. SWIM thinks the analytical method used in the report SWIMs friend gave him was not the best. SWIMs imaginary friend got some more plant material and wants to try some LC-MS analysis but needs time and excuses to use the instrument 
hahaha, true. this is why I prefer to write "MAOI-like activity", whatever that means. Hints to beta-carboline structures from any MS-coupled chromatography, or anything else the jungle spice may have does not provide any evidence for its activity in humans.
One always needs to smooooke the shit.
One always needs to smooooke the shit.
Exactly. SWIM is a fan of the human bioassay. Its a shame all the regulations needed these days to get human studies published. Especially with relatively safe compounds. I can see why the regulations are there but for researchers its really a burden often.
Anyway yea taking it really is the only way to find out if its active in humans. Theres no other way to really know for sure.
Has anyone taken nearly purified jungle-spice fumarate, yet? SWIM finally exhausted his impure freebase of nearly all of its DMT using naphtha, and so he dissolved all the leftover jungle-spice into acetone and salted it out. The salt itself has the appearance of a brown harmaloid salt. SWIM doesn't know whether that necessarily indicates anything significant or not-maybe just coincidence.
SWIM wants to try this soon. Forty minutes into it, he will smoke spice and note any difference. After that, he will take his standard 150mg DMT fumarate and note any activity. SWIM hasn't decided on a dosage, yet, but was considering 200mg.
SWIM wants to try this soon. Forty minutes into it, he will smoke spice and note any difference. After that, he will take his standard 150mg DMT fumarate and note any activity. SWIM hasn't decided on a dosage, yet, but was considering 200mg.
Infundibulum said:
SWIM just moved, wont be able to test this out for a while..
but when so, will post back
btw amorfati, SWIM will be very interested in SWIY's results
SWIM had mixed results tonight.
200mg jungle fumarate was certainly orally active but only VERY MILDLY psychedelic. It was not enough to orally activate 150mg dmt-fumarate, however--if it's even capable of that at all. SWIM will eventually try 300mg of the jungle, as he suspects it to be much weaker than harmine.
Smoking pure spice after oral ingestion of the jungle was a different matter though. This reminded SWIM very little of smoking jungle or even of oral harmine and smoked spice. It more closely resembled SWIM's THH experiences. This could possibly only be a fluke or a placebo effect, but SWIM highly doubts it. This was one of SWIM's more rich smoking experiences, matched only by his THH experiences, though SWIM would have to see it reproduced to confirm it.
The experience was quite clear (like THH, rather than foggy like harmine) but somewhat chaotic, though not so alien. It had a somewhat primal character to it (more like harmine, less like THH). SWIM would rate it like this: jungle-spice>harmine<THH and THH>jungle-spice. Don't get SWIM wrong though, he enjoys them all.
SWIM more closely examined the physical properties of the salt: It seemed to be very hard and grainy (reminding SWIM a little bit of THH), whereas SWIM's DMT fumarate tends to be either fluffy or rocky.
SWIM wants to believe the apparent THH connections to be more than placebo and coincidence, but still has strong doubts. If any other SWIY's have the resources, please help to confirm or deny SWIM's observations.
200mg jungle fumarate was certainly orally active but only VERY MILDLY psychedelic. It was not enough to orally activate 150mg dmt-fumarate, however--if it's even capable of that at all. SWIM will eventually try 300mg of the jungle, as he suspects it to be much weaker than harmine.
Smoking pure spice after oral ingestion of the jungle was a different matter though. This reminded SWIM very little of smoking jungle or even of oral harmine and smoked spice. It more closely resembled SWIM's THH experiences. This could possibly only be a fluke or a placebo effect, but SWIM highly doubts it. This was one of SWIM's more rich smoking experiences, matched only by his THH experiences, though SWIM would have to see it reproduced to confirm it.
The experience was quite clear (like THH, rather than foggy like harmine) but somewhat chaotic, though not so alien. It had a somewhat primal character to it (more like harmine, less like THH). SWIM would rate it like this: jungle-spice>harmine<THH and THH>jungle-spice. Don't get SWIM wrong though, he enjoys them all.
SWIM more closely examined the physical properties of the salt: It seemed to be very hard and grainy (reminding SWIM a little bit of THH), whereas SWIM's DMT fumarate tends to be either fluffy or rocky.
SWIM wants to believe the apparent THH connections to be more than placebo and coincidence, but still has strong doubts. If any other SWIY's have the resources, please help to confirm or deny SWIM's observations.
on washing the jungle spice pulled from xylene... SWIM has washed with ammonia ov coarse, but how does one wash with warm naphtha? does one take the spice in a coffee filter and then pour the warm nappy over the spice? or does one put it in a dish and do the same process that one does with recrystalization?
if you mean to separate the dmt from the jungle spice, then yes its same as with recrystalization