Just starting - to dose up or dose down

[Kajarookee]

Hi everyone

I've recently completed an extraction (report to follow on this) and taken my first doses of the spice. The first time, I only used about 15mg as my partner and I were anticipating messing up with our smoking technique (which we did!).

First time, I had a nice buzz and a slightly acidy effect (about 12mg). Second time, I managed to hold more in and experienced a body heavy and some nice distortions in visuals (about 15mg) - no patterns but the door and chest of drawers had become very fluid and swirled about the place. I'd had a joint a few hours earlier so think I was probably more relaxed than the first time.

Last night, I decided I wanted to try and get as close to a breakthrough without actually breaking through, but unsure whether I achieved this. I calmed myself first, and thought about intention and positive things. I took about 23mg and managed to take in 3 tokes and hold for 15 seconds, although the last one was hard as everything was already starting to feel really strange, and I could only take in some of the vapour as my chest hurt so I coughed. I don't know if this chest pain then determined the trip, or whether the trip would have been the same regardless.

I was completely unable to move and my body felt like I was being pushed down into the sofa - I've never felt so heavy. When I closed my eyes, there were some hazy/sketchy visuals but can't recall anything specific about them and with my eyes open, I seemed to be transfixed to the light fitting and fireplace chimney. I was completely unaware of anything else. These things looked normal in the sense that I could tell what they were and they didn't morph into other objects or take on any special patterns or bright colours, but they weren't normal in that it felt like I was perceiving some other qualities about them using a different sense altogether. They did seem to blur in and out of focus and almost become 4 (or 5?!) dimensional at one point but these things weren't distorting in an obvious way that can be perceived with the eyes. It's very hard to explain but the whole thing felt slightly ominous and overbearing.

I remember suddenly realising that I felt fearful and heard myself saying in my head that I wouldn't manage a breakthrough as I'm always going to be anxious, etc. etc. and this critical voice annoyed me so I told myself to calm down, I'm fine and safe, etc. The anxiety subsided a bit, but not entirely. I think part of the reason it was uncomfortable is that I didn't like the body heavy I was getting which was really intense.

10 minutes later, I was right back.

I have read some information about people finding these sub-breakthrough doses uncomfortable which was a relief as I had started to worry that my mind was just going to not let me go there. I don't know if I perhaps didn't take enough or hold that third toke in for longer, or because my mind was fearful so wouldn't let go. I felt a little bit anxious afterwards but also a slight pleasant feeling that went with it.

I've been smoking with my partner who's also just starting out but his sub breakthrough experience was overwhelmingly positive but then he's more experienced with psychedelics than I am (I've taken LSD, ketamine, San Pedro, shrooms maybe 15 or so times but he's probably more in the 80+ range).

So, and I know everyone is different, based on the above, do you think that it would be better for me to just go for a full breakthrough next time (something I want to achieve) with extended meditative work beforehand, or would it be wiser to get used to lower doses and possibly even embrace any discomfort before heading further out?

Thanks all

 

[DreaMTripper]

Personally I enjoyed coasting the sub-breakthrough space, you do get used to that bodyload, the slightly heavy head and dis-jointedness its intersting to be able to close your eyes and drift through the sea of geometry but also out of interest to open your eyes to observe the oscillating surroundings. Eyes open for sub-breakthrough doses made the room flicker and shimmer.
Once you do hit a breakthrough dose you should have less anxiety as the transition wont be as shocking to you, breakthrough can often be the dissolution into the geometry, or thats how it starts, it feels very nice a warm glow encompasses the body all heaviness and discomfort ends.

 

[DmnStr8]

With DMT I like to go for full breakthroughs. I was never was one for dipping my toe to test the waters. I have and always will be the guy who takes a running start and cannonballs right into the water. *SPLASH* It's just who I am.

 

[Firemetal420]

I have had what sounds like the same lung discomfort in the past when I ended up burning my spice... IME enhanced leaf or better yet changa will help you get a full dose easier with a much shorter learning curve... just load up your dose and toke slowly without the flame actually touching the material. I say this because I was having the same issue in my first few experiences, and enhanced leaf was a revelation for me... then I tried changa and WOW... I HIGHLY recommend it 8) :d Happy Traveling

 

[TGO]

I agree with making it into enhanced leaf or changa! It is pretty much foolproof!

Now, to dose more or less? Hmm, that is a tricky one! :d

I personally love the aspects of both a sub-breakthrough and a full blown breakthrough. When I first started smoking/vaping spice, I spent a week (at least...still trying to get it perfect! :lol: ) trying to master a proper vaping technique with minimal success. Then I accidentally broke through. :shock:

Keep on keeping on and you'll get to where you want to be. Breakthrough or not, it is all part of something truly amazing and beautiful beyond description. Best of luck!!

 

[Godzy]

yep, sub-breakthroughs scare the hell out of me, enough to not be able to force myself to breakthrough. just make sure you're comfortable. that's key.

 

[DeltaSpice]

I think sub break through and breakthrough are totally different experiences and both should be fully explored.
The only thing missing from sub break through experiences is that few weeks of a cerebral high and the overall profoundness you get from full on breakthroughs.
Although sub break through experiences seem to reset me mentally and make me feel very comfortable with life

 

[Kajarookee]

Thanks for everyone's responses - it's interesting reading about how people experience the sub-breakthroughs differently.

I think next time, I'll stay in my own house, despite it not being anywhere near as nice as the place I took my first doses (my in-laws' farmhouse). I do feel comfortable here as it's extremely quiet, beautiful inside and surrounded by fields and cows, but ultimately it's not my usual space with all my familiar belongings.

I'm going to leave it a week or so and then probably take the same dose back at home and see what happens - it could be that the sub-breakthrough is still uncomfortable but then at least I'll have an idea of what to expect. I'll spend some time doing yoga practice first and, during the actual experience, focus more on deep breathing as I'm not sure I thought about my breath once during the previous trip.

Thanks again

 

[LSDvibes]

I have only had sub-breakthrough experiences. My sense of space gets really weird and I feel this energy expanding from me. You mentioned feeling heavier but for me, I got a feeling of feeling lighter or even weightlessness although the body high was heavy/intense. My sense of space gets different but I can't explain how. My room felt like it was larger and just...different. I don't know if I got visuals but I probably would have gotten more if I closed my eyes. I got a delay in my vision where I looked at a chair in my room and turned my head and the image stayed the same for a few seconds before moving over (because I turned my head.)I think when I smoke next, I have a friend hold the lighter and the pipe as that got difficult to do and I would like to breakthrough or just go further. My experiences were uncomfortable at first but once I knew what to anticipate, I enjoyed the dose and the light feeling I got. I felt like a tryptamine fairy!

*Edit* I also heard this accordion type sound when I began feeling the effects. I recently watched a video about the DMT carrier wave and some of the sounds in it feel familiar even though it's representing what you hear on a breakthrough dose.

At 17 seconds, that sound feels familiar to me but I don't know if the sound was like an accordion or more of the electric sound in the video. Maybe I've heard both? I never got the initial tone though which I find odd as I'd imagine you'd get that whether or not you breakthrough?

 

[DeltaSpice]

Thanks for everyone's responses - it's interesting reading about how people experience the sub-breakthroughs differently.

I think next time, I'll stay in my own house, despite it not being anywhere near as nice as the place I took my first doses (my in-laws' farmhouse). I do feel comfortable here as it's extremely quiet, beautiful inside and surrounded by fields and cows, but ultimately it's not my usual space with all my familiar belongings.

I'm going to leave it a week or so and then probably take the same dose back at home and see what happens - it could be that the sub-breakthrough is still uncomfortable but then at least I'll have an idea of what to expect. I'll spend some time doing yoga practice first and, during the actual experience, focus more on deep breathing as I'm not sure I thought about my breath once during the previous trip.

Thanks again

I find sub break through vaping spice, its only the first hit that makes you think "never again" but it passes and subsequent hits are great.
Alternatively make changa , sub break through is just pure pleasure.

 

[Kajarookee]

Well, as an update - I broke through last night! I had originally planned to delay smoking again but had a lovely day out walking in the hills and being close to nature and felt in a pleasant mood. In the evening, did some yoga and took 25mg but I think my partner managed to get the pipe filled with more vape so the first toke was definitely stronger than previous trips.

I remember the second or third toke hurt my chest a bit so I didn't manage to inhale much and gave out a light cough, but managed to hold in the rest of it. The third toke was the same and by the time I had a fourth, my partner's hands and the pipe looked as though they had one of those Photoshop filters (like a stained glass window effect but with lots of oscillating circles). For a second as I melted away, I suddenly worried about how I appeared but immediately said to myself "Oh who cares - it's only W!"

I don't remember the visuals from the first part of the trip, but I do remember a sound very similar to what has been posted above. It was a low hum that got louder and louder(but not deafening) and then I think it kind of popped.

The next part of the trip I remember was being in this, well almost like a tumble dryer void - it was full of waves in muted browns that completely filled my field of vision. They were individually made up of dozens of other circular shapes with smaller circles inside that were kind of opening up and then receding back in a kind of loop. The waves were gently moving from side to side and it felt like I was just this little molecule amongst it all. I had put on Om Mani Padme Hum on You Tube before launching and I could still hear it playing - it's like the waves were gently moving in time with it and encapsulating me - it all felt very warm and caring - like I was being bathed in this sea of shapes.

I remember wondering if my eyes were open or closed and then tried to open them but they didn't seem to work and then suddenly the ideas of having eyes at all seemed a ludicrous concept.

The next thing I remember was being out of this space and in another but it's all so vague now. I looked upwards and there was this almost square like transparent structure above me, with what appeared to be a star shape (unsure whether this was a giant starfish or other kind of entity) sitting on top. I wasn't entirely sure whether it was living or not and I didn't feel any immediate desire to communicate with it, nor it with me, but it felt very relaxing. The colours were a bit brighter here - I remember a sapphire blue and fuschia.

Them I remember almost being placed down into a corner - perhaps the corner of the square type structure, and then these almost hazy shards of glass/crystal? obscuring my view. I remember saying that I'd really like to see more but everything remained still. I decided to try and open my eyes and I was back in the room, although everything had a strange outline for a few seconds.

I blinked, closed my eyes again, opened them, blinked a few times and then looked at my partner in disbelief, said "What's been going on?!?" and then immediately burst out laughing! It just felt so funny. It felt like I'd been instantly pulled out of a deep and fascinating dream but without any of the grogginess you get after waking up.

It was an absolutely outstanding experience and I had a lovely afterglow. I was so relieved that none of the anxiety I can get with psychedelics carried through at all and I've come to the conclusion that the reason I've sometimes struggled with LSD and shrooms in the past is because I'm never so far gone that I lose that element of self-awareness where I worry I'm being too weird for the people I'm tripping with.

The last friend I tripped with made a comment that we (my partner and I) were going to "far out" and had to get more grounded, which wasn't our perception of events at all, but that was enough to put discourage me from tripping with him again, which is a shame. I have had some identity and mood disorder issues for in excess of 10 years so I'm hoping that this is something I can work on with DMT-containing plants in the future.

I have a friend hold the lighter and the pipe as that got difficult to do and I would like to breakthrough or just go further. My experiences were uncomfortable at first but once I knew what to anticipate, I enjoyed the dose and the light

Yeah there's absolutely no way I would be able to do this by myself. I've been having my partner hold the bulb-type pipe and lighter the whole time but when it's his turn, I just take the pipe and lighter for the last two tokes and I know he's pretty gone when I pass the pipe back for the last time and he laughs and can see he's struggling to work out what it is!

I find sub break through vaping spice, its only the first hit that makes you think "never again" but it passes and subsequent hits are great.
Alternatively make changa , sub break through is just pure pleasure.

I think I probably did feel that "never again" feeling on the last trip, at least for a short while. Will definitely look into making changa, as Firemetal420 also suggested. Have ordered some yellow caapi and will have a think about what other plants I'd like to use a bit later on, once we've sorted out our vaping technique.

Thanks again to everyone for helping me combat that initial anxiety I felt with the sub-breakthrough dose by giving me the bravery to continue! :thumb_up:

 

[tseuq]

offtopic

I have and always will be the guy who takes a running start and cannonballs right into the water. *SPLASH* It's just who I am.

Hoi DmnStr8,
maybe I get you wrong but don't you describe just a behaviour with which you are identifying yourself and contributing it to your self-image? Beside of that, life appears to me as process and nothing static. In my impression, the one who experienced the absence of ego is not longer limited to these "images" and aware of her/his wholeness.

ontopic
@Kajarookee; In my opinion, there is no need to combat anxiety, cuz it is a part of our evolutionary system and functions as a warning signal. You can accept and welcome this feeling. We may think about possible dangers but we don't have to react to it, we can go on doing our thing. Being able to accept and integrate all upcoming facetts of myself seems to be rooted in letting go of my believes of what I think who/how/whatever I am.

Love tseuq

 

[SyKaDeliX]

.
Once you do hit a breakthrough dose you should have less anxiety as the transition wont be as shocking to you, breakthrough can often be the dissolution into the geometry, or thats how it starts, it feels very nice a warm glow encompasses the body all heaviness and discomfort ends.

Thank you, this is exactly what I needed to know, and kind of what I have extrapolated internally from the gut feelings I get from low dosing. I am used to the body load now and enjoy that state very much.. I decided before I dose for a break through, I wanted to familiarise myself with the effects.

A breakthrough dose will be coming up shortly.

 

[TGO]

Kajarookee,

I am very happy to hear you had your breakthrough! It is quite wild, no? :lol:
Good luck with future endeavors! Oh, I personally would recommend Mullein as a potential admixture in your changa! It is very smooth and pleasant.

Sykadelix,

Testing the waters can be great and a break through can instantly change your life! Best of luck to you as well as you attempt to ascend into the hyper dimensional realm! Be safe!

Much love and Peace to Everyone,

-The Grateful One-

 

[Kajarookee]

breakthrough can often be the dissolution into the geometry

I think this described my experience extremely well.

A breakthrough dose will be coming up shortly.

I wish you a wonderful journey!

I am very happy to hear you had your breakthrough! It is quite wild, no? Good luck with future endeavors! Oh, I personally would recommend Mullein as a potential admixture in your changa! It is very smooth and pleasant.

Wild yes! The whole bizareness of it was what caused me to laugh! :lol: Thank you - I'll check out Mullein. I'm also thinking about ordering Blue Lotus, Passionflower, White Sage, Calea, and possibly Chacruna (for tea).

In my opinion, there is no need to combat anxiety, cuz it is a part of our evolutionary system and functions as a warning signal. You can accept and welcome this feeling. We may think about possible dangers but we don't have to react to it, we can go on doing our thing. Being able to accept and integrate all upcoming facetts of myself seems to be rooted in letting go of my believes of what I think who/how/whatever I am..

It sounds like you're talking about mindfulness, although correct me if I'm wrong. Yes, it's completely normal for us to all live with a level of anxiety for our very survival, but the proverbial s*it hits the fan when that perception of "survival" is determined by the subconscious in a way that just isn't practical in terms of being able to function in a given society. I think it's important to face fears head on if you can and perhaps understanding the very root core of these beliefs is necessary before one can observe these feelings coming and going, rather than feeding them to a point where they cause the individual and others around them problems. I think a lot of valuable insight can be gained from anxiety and fear during a trip, and necessary with certain substances such as iboga.

 

[DeltaSpice]

I think I probably did feel that "never again" feeling on the last trip, at least for a short while. Will definitely look into making changa, as Firemetal420 also suggested. Have ordered some yellow caapi and will have a think about what other plants I'd like to use a bit later on, once we've sorted out our vaping technique.

If I was you I'd extract the Alkaloids from the vine and add some of those Alks with DMT onto some shredded vine = High class Changa.
Also you don't need to vape Changa. You can bong it or roll Changa joints just add some mullein to bulk it out.

 

[substr8]

I've definitely plunged in (perhaps) too deep at first with tryptamines, with mixed results. The 3 times i've smoked DMT, I smoked 10mg less each time, and have fully broke through every time, but each successive time It was weirder and had less of an overall positive vibe. I think a lot of this has to do with the fact I didnt wait long enough to integrate the experience before going back, but regardless, the first two experiences with DMT were breakthroughs and were totally incredible.

 

[Kajarookee]

If I was you I'd extract the Alkaloids from the vine and add some of those Alks with DMT onto some shredded vine = High class Changa.

I have some vine and leaves and had a look at gibran2's tek but don't have any lye (which I think it required if memory serves, but could be wrong). Would you recommend straight up caapi leaves or 10x caapi leaf? I'm saving the vine for aya.

My mullien, white sage, blue lotus, skullcap, salvia and calea arrived today so very excited! :d

 

[DeltaSpice]

If I was you I'd extract the Alkaloids from the vine and add some of those Alks with DMT onto some shredded vine = High class Changa.

I have some vine and leaves and had a look at gibran2's tek but don't have any lye (which I think it required if memory serves, but could be wrong). Would you recommend straight up caapi leaves or 10x caapi leaf? I'm saving the vine for aya.

My mullien, white sage, blue lotus, skullcap, salvia and calea arrived today so very excited! :d

10x / 50x cannot hold a flame to extracted Caapi alkaloids.
Follow Gibrans extraction if you want some thing really special.
Lye is easily acquired , I think you can use sodium carbonate instead but sodium hydroxide is supposed to do a better job.

I just re read your post, the tek is for Caapi vine not leaves.
If all you have is leaves then do a 10x soak think or try 20x at least..

 

[Kajarookee]

I've been ordering like crazy lately so will hold back on ordering lye for now (I'm in Europe and haven't come across anything offline I would regard as definitely suitable).

Thank you - will try the enriched caapi leaf method and see how I get on.