Just talked to a friend and...

[VisualDistortion]

Yeah, I'm not thinking ghost

Why not? More people see ghosts than aliens or angels or god! The amount of people who have seen them is ridiculously high. So I believe in ghosts. But that doesn't mean I believe they are conscious, or maybe even anything more than hallucinations, or any other explanation that science could come up with.

I not thinking ghost because my understanding of the word means that it is a human spirit that wanders the earth after death. That sounds pretty lame, but hey, maybe the afterlife is lame.

And I had an experience almost exactly like the one you described when you were asleep and you awoke to find a dark figure at the foot of your bed. That is why I even give talk of spirits, entities, or ghost consideration outside of just being a halucination.

 

[burnt]

I forgot one important thing! Group experiences either in the form of group citings of UFO's or group hallucinations from drugs or haunted houses that creep on lots of people.

 

[ohayoco]

or haunted houses that creep on lots of people.

This has already been plausibly scientifically explained, as I wrote at the bottom of my first post.

Whereas concrete sitings of ghosts (rather than maybe-seeing-something-person-shaped-in-the-dark-or-while-half-asleep) have not been explained. What's your answer to my points on how such sitings don't fit the hallucination model?

 

[burnt]

I have read that old houses emit inaudible low frequencies, which makes people feel the uncomfortable feeling that they attribute as being a 'presence'. I watched a documentary where they monitored people in 'haunted' Scottish catacombs- the people felt presences and got very scared. Then they made a computer simulation of the catacombs... and found that people watching those got scared and felt presences too! Suggesting that it was a spatial effect creating these feelings. However, I've come across no provable theories for when people actually and unquestionably see ghosts, rather than imagine them or think they saw something out of the corner of their eye. I have heard theories about electromagnetic fields causing hauntings. I'd love to hear of any other possible scientific explanations.

All this means is that some kind of energy found in these houses might make people nervous. Until a cause and effect relationship is put into effect it doesn't need to have anything to do with ghosts. Real ghosts anyway. These types of energy fields or whatever other radiation is in the house (like radon) could make people more prone to seeing things as well.

Not proof of ghosts at all just like people seeing ghosts isn't proof of anything either. Has a ghost ever spoken to you? Has anyone else seen the same ghost as you?

I think your brain just mistaking projects an image of person onto whatever you are looking at for whatever reason, you are nervous or anxious, its dark, your half asleep, your paralyzed, the room contains funny electromagnetic waves that are messing with your head. There are so many ways in which the brain is capable of making people see things that aren't there especially images of people. Psychotics do it all the time.

 

[ohayoco]

I think your brain just mistaking projects an image of person onto whatever you are looking at for whatever reason, you are nervous or anxious, its dark, your half asleep, your paralyzed, the room contains funny electromagnetic waves that are messing with your head. There are so many ways in which the brain is capable of making people see things that aren't there especially images of people. Psychotics do it all the time.

Please reread what I've written in this thread.

To answer your suggestions with regard to the one I saw- there was nothing near or behind it for me to mistake as a ghost, it was floating in front of blue sky and I could see every intricate detail as if it were solid- the texture of its monk's habit looked touchable. As for your other points, I was not nervous nor anxious until AFTER I saw it and I got a good look at it too because I couldn't turn away, it was sunny and light, I was wide awake, I was only paralysed with fear AFTER seeing the 'ghost', and I was outside so I wasn't being subjected to the low frequency vibrations of a creaking house. Neither was I near any sources of EM radiation etc and radon isn't a problem outside.

As I explained, a one-off hallucination such as this does not fit the model of the nature of all the hallucinatory states we currently understand. And as I said if 'one-off random perfect hallucinations' WERE possible, we would expect it to be happening with all sorts of things, not just floating people in historical attire. I would really love someone who has experience with every induced hallucinatory state (especially the 'realistic' ones), even better who also understands the nature of hallucinatory states caused by the brain alone if this is possible, to explain if this kind of one-off ghost-specific hallucination is possible. Because from the evidence I've seen, it seems as unlikely as the other reasons I posited as potential causes.

 

[burnt]

As I explained, a one-off hallucination such as this does not fit the model of the nature of all the hallucinatory states we currently understand.

The ones SWIY and SWIM understand are psychedelics they are self induced we kind of know we are hallucinating. They are qualitatively different then the types of hallucinations I think ghosts and other things like that are.

And as I said if 'one-off random perfect hallucinations' WERE possible, we would expect it to be happening with all sorts of things, not just floating people in historical attire.

They do happen with all sorts of things. Not just ghosts.

I would really love someone who has experience with every induced hallucinatory state (especially the 'realistic' ones), even better who also understands the nature of hallucinatory states caused by the brain alone if this is possible, to explain if this kind of one-off ghost-specific hallucination is possible.

Psychosis. There are millions of people who are psychotic who have abnormalities in their brain and they see all kinds of things hear all kinds of voices have all kinds of confused thoughts.

I think your right though it would do us good to get some information from people who have studied this better then you or I. I'll try to look around when I have some time.

 

[ohayoco]

They do happen with all sorts of things. Not just ghosts.

Like what? UFOs is the only other one I've heard of that parallels the ghost phenomena. Rarer but common enough to be significant.

There are some rare ones like Bigfoot and the Loch Ness Monster, but these are rare enough that a healthy dose of scepticism would tell you that these sitings could be folk legends influencing the overenthusiastic when they see something from afar. As far as I know no-one (or hardly anyone such that it can be plausibly dismissed as psychosis/optical illusion/fraud etc) has stood a few feet away from either of them and got a really good look.

There are millions of people who are psychotic who have abnormalities in their brain and they see all kinds of things hear all kinds of voices have all kinds of confused thoughts.

These people experience multiple hallucinations, of all sorts of things, not one-offs of classic 'ghosts'.

I agree we definitely need evidence. It's such a shame that this area is shunned by scientists, and therefore populated by charlatans instead