K-hole and integration afterward

[PleasureAndBliss]

Hey everyone !

I apology first because it's may be not the best forum or the best sub-forum to put this report in, but as I still not have the full membership and I value your wisdom here more than on most other drug related forums, I will post it there anyway. Feel free to remove it/move it if you want so mods.

So a few weeks ago, I took a huge amount of ketamine (3g spread in 2 days) nasally. During that time I've experienced a huge K-hole that moved me quite a little bit, and want this thread to facilitate the integration that I feel hasn't been fully completed yet.

During this K-hole, I was not me any more, totally disintegrated. Instead, I felt that I was a huge consciousness that felt extremely lonely. To escape from this terrible loneliness, I decided to induce a little "irregularity" on the perfect "space"/"shape" of this consciousness. In an instant, this irregularity created the universe we live in. This irregularity is a lie that "I" (the huge consciousness) told to myself so "I" can be able to experience meeting and interacting with other thing that "myself".

Lots of different visions arose at that point, but I don't remember them very well. What stayed is my interpretation of and this feeling of loneliness.

I feel intuitively (but my rational mind clash with this vision) that I experienced what felt "God" before creating the universe and why he created it. And I feel that it's extremely SAD, that we just are all some part of this huge consciousness, that was so alone and desperate that it had to lie to himself.

So now how to fit this experience in my life framework so it can be useful for me ? I'm not sure but I think I experienced this aspect of consciousness (and not infinite love and so one) because I have been not so social since a feeling of betrayal from a great friend of mine when I was teenager.

Since then, had huge amount of drug use so that my emotional/social need would not be dependant on a person any more, and that I can be in control. I'm 28 and it's been 10+ years since the events, but I think it has still implication in my day to day life.

I can be social, and has I'm a kind and sensible guy I can merge in groups easily on the surface. And think I'm kind of liked as a great guy most of the time. But I feel difficult to bind to people on a profound level. I can do that with some of the girls I had (extremely important for me), and maybe one or two friends but that's it.

I want meaningful and deep relations with people, but have a feeling that so few people understand me on a deep level. I can feel that there is some immaturity in my psyche there, because it feel difficult to me to accept that a part of the social life is based on light interactions, and tend to not seek that/be disgusted about.

Maybe this trip wants to show me that this huge consciousness wanted to socialise, and I'm not doing a great job staying in my corner. But I feel some contempt to a lot of people that don't care about understanding life and their psyche on a deep level. I can't relate to them, and feel that most of people are like that (maybe wrongly, I'm not in their mind). I don't feel that it's useful as it block empathy and maybe great opportunities of binding to great people.

Maybe I think I need more self-love and accept that I'm not the kind guy I think to be. Maybe I need to love myself in spite of the fact that I can have some contempt to so much people I meet on a daily basis.

I'm still not sure how to interpret all of this hehe.

Ok so that is a scattered post as I've written it directly without too much thinking. And it's extremely personal, but I wrote it hope of some insight/catharsis from this loneliness that hasn't been totally proceeded yet. Any input would be pure bonus from person that could have experienced this kind of experience or sensation during psychedelic/dissociative use

 

[Teknoshamaani]

"During this K-hole, I was not me any more, totally disintegrated. Instead, I felt that I was a huge consciousness that felt extremely lonely. To escape from this terrible loneliness, I decided to induce a little "irregularity" on the perfect "space"/"shape" of this consciousness. In an instant, this irregularity created the universe we live in. This irregularity is a lie that "I" (the huge consciousness) told to myself so "I" can be able to experience meeting and interacting with other thing that "myself"."

The feeling of loneliness is still an object to your conciousness, just as anything else that you can percieve i.e. its just as much of a "illusion" as anything else you experience. Still, what is always present in your experience, is you. Not your physical form or ego, but just the pure knowing of being. Loneliness can be terrible only in relation to something that is not terrible. If everything was terrible, terribleness wouldn't mean anything anymore. It's still a finite concept, pointing to some part of an experience.

I think that the root of craving and suffering is that our finite ego wants to prove it exists. Just like in evolution, animals etc. most beings are motivated by self-preservance. They think, or feel that they are some certain finite thing, and they do anything to keep that thing alive, or existing. For example making children and surviving, so that they can continue to fight for survival in the future. However, the "I" is still present, but the finite being is not aware of it. Because it is not any "thing" or concept, it's the presence experiencing life in the form of things, concepts and symbols.

So I would say that you can define the word God in any way you want, but if God is something infinite and ever present, it's nature isn't essentially loneliness. Loneliness probably just a very deeply rooted interpretation of your own feelings of unsatisfaction. And unsatisfaction arises from the ignorance of one's own being.

In my ketamine experiences, the bodily nausea it made me feel, made the whole experience feeling like pretty unsatisfactory. The sense of self of course dissolves in some way, but the bodily nausea and your internal feelings still definately can direct your experience to certain, "good" or "bad" direction. And of course mystical experiences induced by any drug can make you believe in huge delusions/illusions, especially if you have smoked weed. It's important (in my opinion, if you want to keep your clarity), that you don't let them, or anything else define what you are.

 

[FranLover]

"I'm not sure but I think I experienced this aspect of consciousness (and not infinite love and so one) because..."

I thought so too while reading you. Also Ketamine I think has a certain bit of lonliness and alienation to it...an existential darkness. So if you want to integrate this perhaps drink some ayahuasca...I mean thats the real deal in my humble opinion. Ketamine is a bit of an illusion...its beautiful, its beautiful!...but its no DMT

but listen, there is a lot of work to do no doubt, some people seem better than you in everything but no one is better than anyone because everyone has a small chink in their armour...find your small chink in the armour, the source of suffering, anxiety, and uneasiness, and vanish it through understanding. In this case you have to understand that if you want meaningful relationships...why? Understand the reason. Pierce through it ! Do we really need anything, or is it that we are empty? That I escape myself? I am never still. I never love myself...i dont give myself a chance to experience what I truly am...rather i cling to this or that sentimentality, this or that yearning or nostalgia...this or that habit.

All good things come to those who wait...sometimes it better they dont, yet we only discover that later~~but you see what a foolish game that is? Just focus on you and nothing outside of you. If you are good you will shine and be a light on to others.

I hope I have helped. I doubt I haved, but this is what came to my mind, humbly

 

[PleasureAndBliss]

The feeling of loneliness is still an object to your conciousness, just as anything else that you can percieve i.e. its just as much of a "illusion" as anything else you experience. Still, what is always present in your experience, is you. Not your physical form or ego, but just the pure knowing of being. Loneliness can be terrible only in relation to something that is not terrible. If everything was terrible, terribleness wouldn't mean anything anymore. It's still a finite concept, pointing to some part of an experience.

I totally understand your point. Do you think love is a finite concept as love can only be in relation with something that is not love, aka hate?

I think that the root of craving and suffering is that our finite ego wants to prove it exists. Just like in evolution, animals etc. most beings are motivated by self-preservance. They think, or feel that they are some certain finite thing, and they do anything to keep that thing alive, or existing. For example making children and surviving, so that they can continue to fight for survival in the future. However, the "I" is still present, but the finite being is not aware of it. Because it is not any "thing" or concept, it's the presence experiencing life in the form of things, concepts and symbols.

I think there is difference between pain and suffering. You can definitely feel pain without an ego. The most basic animals have nociceports. But can you suffer if you have no ego? In Buddhism, the mean to eradicate suffering is by deconstructing the ego. An illuminated guy would be able to feel pain, but will not suffer. I wonder if an animal that as no ego is able to suffer?

So I would say that you can define the word God in any way you want, but if God is something infinite and ever present, it's nature isn't essentially loneliness. Loneliness probably just a very deeply rooted interpretation of your own feelings of unsatisfaction. And unsatisfaction arises from the ignorance of one's own being.

You're definitely right I think, and the interpretation of my trip was tainted by the fact that I felt the illusion of being merged totally with "God" or all the consciousness.

In my ketamine experiences, the bodily nausea it made me feel, made the whole experience feeling like pretty unsatisfactory. The sense of self of course dissolves in some way, but the bodily nausea and your internal feelings still definately can direct your experience to certain, "good" or "bad" direction. And of course mystical experiences induced by any drug can make you believe in huge delusions/illusions, especially if you have smoked weed. It's important (in my opinion, if you want to keep your clarity), that you don't let them, or anything else define what you are.

Thanks you for your wise words mate I don't have nausea usually, but I overindulged in ketamine in this trip and it could definitively have tainted the trip with unsatisfactoriness. It seems that there is some escapism in the way I take this drug.

I thought so too while reading you. Also Ketamine I think has a certain bit of lonliness and alienation to it...an existential darkness. So if you want to integrate this perhaps drink some ayahuasca...I mean thats the real deal in my humble opinion. Ketamine is a bit of an illusion...its beautiful, its beautiful!...but its no DMT

I agree with you. For me dissociatives have an huge power of seduction, seduction into vacuity, nihilism. I loved them directly the first time as they could give me psychedelics explorations without the painful confrontation with my fears and anxieties. But as I mature, I tend more and more to be interested about real psychedelics to face my fears. I'm not sure if I'm ready for solo ayahuasca trips, but I've what's necessary to extract and make changa. I just need to do the extraction process when I have time.

but listen, there is a lot of work to do no doubt, some people seem better than you in everything but no one is better than anyone because everyone has a small chink in their armour...find your small chink in the armour, the source of suffering, anxiety, and uneasiness, and vanish it through understanding. In this case you have to understand that if you want meaningful relationships...why? Understand the reason. Pierce through it ! Do we really need anything, or is it that we are empty? That I escape myself? I am never still. I never love myself...i dont give myself a chance to experience what I truly am...rather i cling to this or that sentimentality, this or that yearning or nostalgia...this or that habit.

Thanks for that! Yeah I've to find the right questions and pierce through it. I'm trying to do that actually, unskilfully for the moment yet I've the right intentions now.

I hope I have helped. I doubt I haved, but this is what came to my mind, humbly

You both guys have definitely helped ! And my feeling of the experience has changed since I posted this. I don't feel any dreadful feelings right now if I remember the experience. I've set an intention to be more social and more tolerant with myself and others. Will see where it will bring me

I send metta to you (and me) guys !

 

[SpaceGandalf]

First of all let me talk about ketamine - it’s an incredible substance BUT it does come with health risks, namely ketamine bladder syndrome. Having used K over many many years, and knowing lots of other people that have done the same, this is no joke. If you want to sit through a whole movie at the cinema without having to always get up and go to pee, then don’t abuse this drug (don’t use long term or at a high doses due to tolerance).

Ketamine is a psychedelic, but snorting it is not a good way to have psychedelic experiences. The main reason is because it causes amnesia (loss of memory). When sniffing it, it is notoriously difficult to control dosage and effects. DMT and mushrooms are probably even safer biologically than ketamine, and you will remember even more of the experience on these substances. Do read up the guidance on using these substances though!

You mentioned that you may have used K as an escape. You may not know this but ketamine is probably the most effective known treatment for depression (especially because it is quick acting unlike other antidepressants). It is very common for people to not realise they have depression and self medicate unknowingly. The first step in combating depression is ALWAYS recognising you have it. I suggest you look up “clinical depression” and see how it relates to you. (If you want to talk about this I’m happy to help, and you can PM me if you want it to be private).

Onto your experience in my next post...

 

[SpaceGandalf]

This is only my opinion, but I think you may have things backwards in your first post:

It is perfectly okay to only deeply connect with a few people in your life. I can certainly empathise with you and I’d bet many (if not most) people on here feel the same. You don’t need to blame some past experience for “damaging” you, to me you sound normal. Be very grateful that you have deep connections with other people - you’re lucky, not everyone has that, and they’re often the people that seem the most sociable.

Your experience DOES seem to be about you connection/relationship with others though, but perhaps it might be worth looking at from another perspective:

What you have been show does seem to describe the idea of; cosmic consciousness / a universal field of consciousness / the fact that “we are all the same”.

It’s okay to not like people, and you shouldn’t feel like you have to spend time with people you don’t like, doing things you don’t enjoy, because that’s “what you are supposed to do” - life is short, spend as much of it as you can with the people you love and doing what you love.

HOWEVER, disliking someone does not mean you have to hate them or resent them - empathy, sympathy and compassion are good things.

As your vision showed you; we are all the same thing, we all came from the same source.

Don’t think of all the people in the world as adults, think of them like children - we don’t blame children for their bad manners, we blame the parents. We are all the product of our environment and experiences, and we have the least control over those things when they have the most impact on us.

We shouldn’t blame the cripple for going slow up the stairs and holding us up, but sometimes, if they’ll let us, we can give them a helping hand to get to the top.

These are just my thoughts, I hope they help.

 

[MachineElfHunter]

To backup and reiterate the real concern of bladder issues. I loved some aspects of K but had to full stop taking it when my bladder simply stopped working all of a sudden the day after a K hole trip. Nothing like ending up at your doctors and 24 hours later the ER unable to pee and having a catheter for 8 days. My bladder came back on and I can make it through a movie but point is, this was not from repeated use over weeks or even months. It was really from one single night of in retrospect overuse. I want to expand my mind not my bladder wall which had significant inflammation. The quick tolerance build is no joke either.

First of all let me talk about ketamine - it’s an incredible substance BUT it does come with health risks, namely ketamine bladder syndrome. Having used K over many many years, and knowing lots of other people that have done the same, this is no joke. If you want to sit through a whole movie at the cinema without having to always get up and go to pee, then don’t abuse this drug (don’t use long term or at a high doses due to tolerance).