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Kambo harvesting, ethically correct?

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numbersix

numbersix

Rising Star
Frog medicine has now become part of the commercial shamanic activity on the Internet.
Personally I find it rather unsettling to see animal venom being traded alongside research chemicals and all the other psychedelic paraphernalia .

I would question the motives behind this trade and its promoters, rather than altruism I suspect the reasons have more to do with ego and money.

Genuine seekers will find a way if that is their path, taking the journey to South America would at least demonstrate some commitment. Making it available at Kambo workshops in California will attract thrill seekers and those looking for a new buzz.

One can't help but feel sorry for the frog and its magic.
 
To be fair he is talking about a session with a currandero.

Unless you personally know the currandero to be only profit seeking, there is no reason to bash his thread and compare it to trading animal venom with research chemicals.

I question the motives behind your post
 
Just to be clear, Giovanni by principal does not sell Kambo. He gets it direct from the Matses' and both of us make donations to support their cause. Also, it is opposed to the mission of this thread and supporting my feelings towards healing to engage in an argument that would distract the origins of the thread.

Giovanni is not the same as Maya or any of it's offshoots. I believe Maurice is a huge fan of Kambo and hence of Giovanni's. He does have that one article posted there but as far as I know Gio did not initiate the article being on the site, more than likely he just gave permission. It is however a very inspiring article to me.


Just to be clear as well, my feeling is that this would be beneficial for anyone truly invested in healing. It has nothing to deal with selling Kambo. It has to do with being treated by a master and learning how Kambo can benefit oneself in the best way. This is far different than being treated in the Amazon as this particular treatment is associated with the most advanced technique, applied to meridians. I used to do it the indigenous way on the shoulders, now that I do it to meridian points and lines I see miracles every time I treat myself or someone else.

Also Kambo should not cost $60. There are ways of getting it cheaper and at the cost it should be but one must be either patient or hunt with Kambo to find Kambo. But that is completely a side track issue.
 
jamie said:
^uhh are you talking about spoiler?..as far as I know that site is owned the same guy who owns Maya..and it is not this guy.
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Well that's a coincidence then, Giovanni Lattanzi has an article advertising his Kambo services on same web site that supplies bulk commercial quantities of frog venom, and both of them in the Netherlands.
 
Yes, Maurice in the NL owns maya and has sister sites, kambo.nu being one of them as far as I know. He is very much into traditional ayahuasca ceremonies it seems and other traditional medicines so it is not really hard ti understand why he would support this guy who works with kambo.
 
Yes a co incidence.

Giovanni Lattanzi does not sell Kambo by principal. As to why Maurice would use his article, why not? Gio is the forerunner of modern day Kambo with the most prolific research to date. It would only make sense.

FYI: the southern California location will no longer be @Joshua, the location is in the process of being confirmed. When I know where I will update promptly.
 
Kambogahuasca Panacea said:
Yes a co incidence.

Giovanni Lattanzi does not sell Kambo by principal. As to why Maurice would use his article, why not? Gio is the forerunner of modern day Kambo with the most prolific research to date. It would only make sense.
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He does not sell it because of his principals but the people he is associated with sell it in large amounts for large sums of money.

He's taking it on tour to the USA so that is going to create more demand which presumably his friend at Maya will be happy to supply.

Frogs are about to become big business, the people who are promoting this can call themselves curranderos and claim their medicine is sacred, but in practice they are running an import export business selling sensitive rainforest animal product. I hope they have a license to export this stuff.

How many frogs does it take to produce a stick of kambo, and how are the animals captured and treated when collecting the medicine? Where there are animal products and money there is usually cruelty somewhere in the supply chain. They may only be small frogs but they are sentient creatures that deserve respect.

Taking this potent medicine out of Peru is going to end badly, someone is going to get hurt and the frog is going to suffer because a few people want to make a name for themselves and make a lot of money at the same time.

Why does a hunting medicine need to leave the rainforest? Before long the frog will become an endangered species and the Kambo will be outlawed, its a predicable cycle fueled by greed on the pretext of being sacred, the worst kind of hypocrisy.

Save your prayers for the frog.


6
 
I have often wondered about how moral this whole kambo thing is as well to be honest..it has kept me from working with it at the moment. I dont eat animals and I dont support factory farming so I am VERY weary when it comes to something like kambo being made available on an open online market.

The frogs are not killed when kambo or sapo is collected. Traditionally it is extremely taboo from what i understand to actaully harm the frogs etc..they are concidered sacred beings. The frogs are let go after.

I do have a hard time beleiving that all of the kambo on the market is done that way. Take a look at how iboga has been treated, this is a perfect example of why we should be cautious about these things and question the source and motivation behind it.

Maya is usually very good about this sort of thing. IMO Maurice is an honerable vendor and I would hope he makes sure that all the kambo being sold through the site is 100% ethically harvested and that these frogs are treated with the greastes respect. He has not given us any reason to doubt him so you slandering his name like this is sort of uncalled for. It is fine to question but you are jumping to conclusions.
 
The Matses collecting the Phyllomedusa Bicolor do so with great care and respect. It is well known in indigenous cultures that work with Kambo that to injure the frog would do great harm and bring bad luck to the whole villiage.

Unless you want to present accurate info on Gio selling Kambo, it is extremely heinous of you to put that out there. Irresponsible and ill willed, for whatever reason you had to say that I have no idea, but I for one am officially offended. If you want to play with fire your testing the wrong warrior here. He tells me not to sell the Kambo that I get in conjunction with him. Whatever your info and however you gathered it is completely fraudulant and absolutely taking this thread off course.

I was going to be nice to you 6 but now you lit my ignition. Good luck.
 
Your post is out of place once again. What are you expecting to be the answer to your post? What do you think is more likely, that he says "oh im sorry, Ill change everything now and give up on kambo, please dont threaten me", or that this generates an emotional response from him and changes nothing in his actions, maybe even losing the chance of making him reasonably consider the potential unsustainability of kambo because he will shut down to you ?

You are losing the opportunity to level-headedly talk about it in a thread that has been created by traveler out of the discussion in the other thread, so that maybe we all can learn from it. You are posting in a way that will just degenerate the atmosphere, making acusations and coming with your absolute prediction of the future and prejudging people, plus adding threats to it.

I hope this is the last post from you with this kind of tone, and that you rethink about how you just posted. I would hope also that this thread can be used positively to question about a very relevant subject, and that kambogahuasca understands the importance of honestly considering the potential negative aspects of international promotion and large scale use of kambo
 
numbersix,

You clearly missed this post from endlessness:

endlessness said:
Ok lets get this straight. Kambogahuasca Panacea is sharing info about a certain kambo application happening. 6 seems to be skeptical and think this can be bad, unsustainable.

I think it is legitimate to ask questions, and I think kambogahuasca, being more in contact with this subject, could try to answer in a light hearted way.

Nevertheless, I also think 6 has crossed a line from legitimate questioning, to direct or veiled accusations, which only generates a negative atmosphere. 6 has jumped from asking questions to already giving the answer, implicitly or explicitly, that such or such people are in it for the money and that it is disrespectful and that it is not sustainable. In this way, you are difamating the name of people you dont even know, who's work and intentions you dont know directly, without any evidence. Again, this is not good atmosphere here.

And since for every action there is a reaction, Kambogahuasca Panacea has taken this personally and seems emotionally affected, offended, which will probably lead to less contributing and more venting/confrontational words, and this is not something we want. Kambogahuasca, I appreciate your enthusiasm for things, but please try to not take this personally, and do try to question, even if at first sight from your position it seems this is all good work and that the accusations are wrong, maybe the questions are interesting and maybe indeed you'd come to see that there are disadvantages in popularizing Kambo (or maybe not, but first the questions must be considered , researched, and then the answer will come)

So please, 6, reconsider your way of posting, and Kambo, let the accusations pass through without resistance and only consider the constructive criticism and reason questions. I hope this thread can continue in a positive way
Click to expand...

Please read this well and act accordingly.


Kind regards,

The Traveler
 
Just wondering. Do most vendors give disclaimer on how their sources catch their frogs? There seems to be specific rituals involved in the hunt for the kambo containing phyllomedusa frog. If they aren't using tribal sources couldn't others be catching in an unsustainable manor w/ capitILL intent, do you think that would be spiritually beneficial or rather the reverse?
 
All I can say is I get my Kambo direct from the Matses w/o a middleman. I know it to be carefully and sustainably harvested. As to the advantages of doing Kambo before Ayahuasca or Iboga for a safer, lighter and cleaner energy I can only attest that it works for me and those I treat.
 
"If Kambo became a fad in the psychedelic community those beautiful little phyllomedusa frogs would surely become extinct. They are already on IUCN Red List for threatened species..."

This is alarming..I have often wondered how sustainable this whole kambo thing is. Personally I find it hard to believe that it is all being done ethically..when money and outside interests are involved things tend to go south. The fact that they are now a threatened species is enough to seriously question the growing use of kambo outside of the amazon.
 
Kambogahuasca Panacea said:
Without me doing anything he hit a very unfortunate series of events in his life. I meant no harm to him and I didn't put out anything negative but....

... I made it known to him that I was going to have to ruin his business.
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:? ?

Thanks for replying with this info. Im not sure I believe in sorcerers spells anymore than the tooth fairy but its interesting to read your experiences with the calming effects of using this substance with aya.

Id have to agree with Jaime in questioning the impact on the envirement harvesting Kambo. Even if you have traveled to the Amazon and observed the Matses there isn't a way fro you to know if they arent over hunting these amphibians. WE like to think of indigenous people always in positive green light leaving no negative impacts on their enviroment but I have seen this not to be the case with many of them with my own eye's.

I have seen native groups in the rain forest who's ancestors love and revere even worship the powerful jaguar but hunt them dead mother and cubs just to sell the teeth and hide to pathetic touristas for about 75$ U.S..:x This disgusting practice is one of many and is not uncommon. When I politely questioned these men why they were doing this they kept trying to assure me the animals, yes not just one, had died naturally! I saw this all around the Amazon.

If your BUYING these products from the Matses then they want or need money. If they need money trust me they don't have many ways to make it so in this case it is highly likely environmental protection isn't even a second thought to them.

I urge you to seriously take a long think about what Im saying if you truly love and respect these creatures and this medicine. Look into what the African Pygmes are doing in the Congo jungles to make a buck. SLAUGHTERING Everything that moves in order to sell the meat to the very men clear cutting the forest for logging. There are countless examples I could give of indigenous people destroying their ecosystem for modern amenities. No not all of coarse but our demands for these products creates the destruction.
 
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