Kambo harvesting, ethically correct?

[Kambogahuascanga]

I take seriously what you are saying. I also have nearly zero time on these forums anymore so anything I read is basically skimming. I can't get into any thorough discussions because of these limitations.

There is a thread made my The Traveler specifically for what you all are discussing on if Kambo is sustainable or not. I strongly suggest that the mods break off the 3-5 posts made about if Kambo is sustainable and put into that thread. Because it distracts attention from the original post. I was trying to stay on topic by talking about how Kambo works with other medicines for protection. Unfortunately the points were well made but a veer off topic. I apologize if it sounds like I'm talking down to anyone but from my recent experience as a mod over at the Kambo forum, I find it quite difficult when folks take things way off topic and keep going with it.

As I stated...
My Kambo is sustainably harvested. I really have no idea about these retailers. I'll look into it and talk with others on if this indeed the case.

Thanks for the heads up. Because I know my source and how it is harvested I'm gonna keep doing Kambo and treating my villiage. You do as you will and I do as I is the only thing I know to say without causing any bad feelings. Let live as long as ethical. No need to step on feet if I am looking where I am going and you are looking where you are going. Will all go on our paths just fine.

Regards,
Kambo

 

[Kambogahuascanga]

Did I miss the source provided to prove that the Phylomedusa Bicolor is going extinct? If there is no source for information it is not backed up in any way. I could say this or that but if I have no source for where I got the facts than it has no basis for logical reasoning. If stated as you did as a fact and it has no thoroughly researched informational source than it is in fact not viable information.

Last time I checked Kambo frogs are thriving in the upper Amazon where no one uses them. So are you saying they are only going "extinct" or "endagered" in the Peruvian Amazon where they are popular?

But all these questions and even my posts on this deserve out of respect to the forum to be here...

"Kambo Harvesting, Ethically Correct?"

Kambo harvesting, ethically correct? - Sustainable living - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

I double checked and I see no source for calling Kambo endangered or/and going extinct. This is not fair to a logical thinking process. Please provide sources if I am to take this seriously and draw attention like wild fire. I will be happy to do so if you can convince me with logical and sourced material. Otherwise it is in effect, a logical fallacy.

Blessings and respect,
Kambo

 

[dreamer042]

As of 2010, Phyllomedusa bicolor is listed as "least concern" on the IUCN Redlist site

Justification:
Listed as Least Concern in view of its wide distribution, presumed large population, and because it is unlikely to be declining to qualify for listing in a more threatened category.

Population: It is common throughout its range.
Population Trend: Stable

Major Threat(s): There are very few threats through its wide range, though it is probably impacted locally by very severe habitat loss, such as clear-cutting. It might benefit from road cuts through forest where individuals congregate to reproduce. There is currently an increased interest in the toxic compounds in the skin of this frog (which is used for hunting practices for several tribes of Amazonia). This might increase harvesting effort in the future, but at the moment, such utilisation is not considered to constitute a threat to the species. It is sometimes found in the international pet trade but at levels that do not currently constitute a major threat.

There are other Phyllomedusa sp. that are endangered but from the looks of it this one is doing fine. For now anyway....

The questions of how ethically these medicines are being harvested and whether this stuff should even be making it's way out of the rainforest into the hands of everyone with a credit card and an internet connection are still very valid and should be discussed further imo.

 

[Kambogahuascanga]

This was written by Peter Gorman over at the Ayahuasca Forum, I am reprinting with his permission to do so. As a reminder Peter Gorman was the first Westerner to learn about Sapo aka Kambo in 1986.

Regards Sapo: Done correctly, the chambira twine that holds the frog in place for the removal of the sapo leaves a white mark at ankles and wrists of the frog. The frog is set free and placed on its favorite tree immediately following scraping of secretions, and, in the right hands, will not have it's medicine collected again so long as those white marks last--which can be up to a couple of months. So like people who collect venom from snakes for anti-venin, the animal gets to rejuvenate before being milked again.
In the hands of idiots, of course, the animal will be milked and milked and suffer badly. Plus, as l the very very first few seconds of venom--frog protection/sapo--are real medicine, the people who utilize secondarily culled medicine will get a very inferior product.
There are millions of frogs out there. If treated properly, with those frogs collected from the wild and send back to the wild in an hour or two--and never collected again for at least a couple of months--there should be no problem. Anyone doing it differently--and I mean anyone, as no one has yet discovered what they're eating that produces the medicine--is a jerk and should themselves be stretched out like a trampoline and have their sweat scraped off--just so they know how it feels.
I'm being mean here, but I have seen some nonsense with sapo. And I am not a fan at all. I've also seen medicine so horribly collected it wouldn't do anyone any good. Simply touching the frog prior to collecting the medicine makes the product inferior as the real medicine is then on the collector's fingers, rather than on the sapo stick.
To collect properly, you need to go out at night on the Amazon tributaries. You listen to the barking of the frog. You get out of your canoe and climb 20-50 feet into a tree, cut the branch the animal is sitting on, and bring it to the canoe. You got to shore. You get your sticks, you make your chambira, you put the animal in place, you collect maybe one stick or half a stick from the animal, you release the animal. Done in an hour. Probably still hurts the animal, but is the least painful way to collect the medicine.
That's simply the way to do it. There is no other way. Anybody tells you different is wrong.
So, to answer your question: There is plenty of medicine to go around. Those looking to make money from it are bums. And their methods of collection will hurt the sapo population.
Only my two cents, of course.

 

[jamie]

^ what I got out of that was that it takes some work to harvest just one stick of Kambo..and that there are people who are NOT doing it the way that he has described. I dunno how much Kambo can be collected for a larger world market in this way..they must have many many people out there harvesting it every day like that to be supplying all those sticks of it at that quality. Maybe most of it is being done that way I cant really say. I wish I could find a source that could guarantee that it is being done this way but for now I dont know what to think.