• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

Ketamine and DMT compared

Migrated topic.
I for one know nothing about ketamine, but I thought I'd add Stan Grof's reports:

This Book by Stan Grof is amazing, he's a founder of Transpersonal Psychology:

www.ralphmag.org

Slot Gacor Hari Ini yang Memukau Banyak Orang di Indonesia

Situs judi online yang bisa anda mainkan menggunakan 1 ID saja dengan minmal deposit dan withdraw hanya 25 rb Rupiah untuk pendaftaran baru
www.ralphmag.org www.ralphmag.org

"During a journey on ketamine, Grof became "every Jew who had died in the Nazi gas chambers, every sprayed ant and cockroach, every fly caught in the sticky goo of the flytraps, and every plant dying under the influence of the herbicides. And beyond all that lurked the highly possible ominous future of all life on the planet --- death by industrial pollution."

In another more positive Ketamine trip he was dissociated from his body, and his consciousness was mobile and could occupy the 'space' of inanimate objects anywhere like a towel on a rack. But then later he could report back 'seeing' what was going on in the bathroom in a separate building, where he'd become the towel...
 
El Ka Bong said:
In another more positive Ketamine trip he was dissociated from his body, and his consciousness was mobile and could occupy the 'space' of inanimate objects anywhere like a towel on a rack. But then later he could report back 'seeing' what was going on in the bathroom in a separate building, where he'd become the towel...
Click to expand...

That sounds like a very harrowing experience I had while under the influences of delerium tremens. Once when I slipped into a sort of psychotic dream state (of which I had many while withdrawing) I was able to occupy various inanimate objects within a strange bedroom. I remember it feeling like my essence/soul/consciousness was able to wrap itself around the object and I could shift my direction of focus to be 'looking' at different parts of the room. I was able to switch between objects but not by my own will.

I remember feeling very fearful as I was afraid I would be stuck, confined to inhabit inanimate objects for the rest of eternity. There are a lot of parallels between some of the more remnant effects of dissociative anesthetics and psychotic experience. The only difference being that with the dissociative anesthetics, you are euphoric and you understand it is not real. You might feel like god or that you have been touched by god, but you know it is not real. Real psychosis, is very much 'real' (but that's a given :lol: )

I've heard of Grof but I haven't read much by him, I will certainly have to find this book!
 
The last time SWIM acquired some special-K he got the idea to look at the stars...
Sniff... He hurried outside and onto his trampoline with some blankets before his speech turned into nonsense and soon became accustomed to the 'quadriplegic' feeling. He looked up and the stars were... :shock: moving?!? He spent quite a while out there in awe giggling every now and then. SWIM has never had such a fun time with K
 
Hey richierich, I like the sound of your trip...

Personally, I haven't been very impressed by ketamine...I did have one incredible transcendental k hole experience that was amazing for sure...however that is the only time. The rest of the time it has been about as much fun and as useful as getting punched in the skull by Muhammad Ali...I feel distorted, but not in a good way. It is incapacitating and antisocial.

I rememer Terrence comparing it to the organic psychedelics...he was jounrneying deep on K, but was like 'Where is the life?' It was devoid, and I find it devoid, of something that had drawn me the the organic psychedelics.

I don't find people on K, when I'm not, much fun to be around, and I don't think K revelations are easy to integrate. Also for some reason it makes makes me ill sometimes, I throw up repeatedly, but unlike ayahuasca, it didn't feel any better. I also got random little nose bleeds after snorting K.

I think it is relatively safe, but IT IS addictive...if you do it a lot, it attacks your stomach lining. I know a guy who went to hospital for this, but can't stop using it. For some reason it has a massive and ever growing following here in the UK, which I don't think is that cool.

That's just been my personal experience with K - despite what I have said I have nothing against it at all, and in fact I beleive it has been examined as a treatment for depression.
 
I think I'm kinda interested in Ketamine now. I've stayed away from it since witnessing my friend wig his shit. But he had taken LSD, MDMA, and 1.7gs of shrooms, all before snorting a good amount of K. He was doing fine stumbling around a rave, until people started asking him "are you okay??" This triggered an intense introspective "OH MY GOD, maybe I'm NOT okay!" But he ended up just fine in a matter of hours.
 
SWIM only likes K for entertainment only. It is far to disassociating for him to collect any thoughts other than "wow... wait... what... oh yea... wait... what..." SWIM once had the privilege of insufflating an obscene amount of K after a rave. SWIMs girlfriend told him that the large pile (think chap stick tube) of white powder before him was cocaine and it was all for him! :d

The second it went in... all of it... he knew what it was... uh oh :(

SWIM spent two hours in a k-hole in the garage trying to figure out what fuck these other people out there were saying. None of it made sense, a word here or there. After they left he realized that he couldn't understand them because they were speaking Spanish!

SWIM hates throwing up on k too, although when it's happening it's like watching yourself over your shoulders in a third person view.
 
SWIM has since had a dabble. Him and a few others were having a drink when someone's friend turned up with a big bag of the stuff so all had a go. He'd had 6 units of alcohol beforehand.
The guy with the bag was acting unrationally paranoid at times!
There seemed to be an element of trying to stitch each other up with the dosing.
SWIM found the different perspective interesting at first. There were no hallucinations but things did start to look 'different', a little transformed into blocky bits. SWIM enjoyed it at first but didn't like the mindset after his third bump. He started talking without thinking and being indiscrete. Half his brain was enjoying it, the other half was telling him he was acting like a weirdo and was embarrassed for him. He had no idea how to interact with people acceptably, and the guy he was talking to said the same thing. It felt schizophrenic to SWIM. It didn't feel 'right', just stupid. Walking was robotic and clumsy, as was thinking... he felt like a paranoid schizophrenic robot!
When he had tottered his robo-limbs home to bed, he couldn't sleep... but as he lay he was imagining things, as if dreaming, while awake- not hallucinations, but more vivid daydreams, ie all in the mind. He kept imagining music playing in his head, all sorts of songs that he'd never heard before. Then he took a sleeping tablet to get to sleep because it was past dawn but he wasn't tired.
The next day he felt embarrassed, like one does when one gets drunk and fears that a fool of oneself has been made! A world apart from the warmth and sociability of mescaline. He won't bother taking k socially again. It was the best model for mental and physical disability he's experienced! He felt like a 60's experiment.
He's still interested in a k-hole one day after reading this thread... but he didn't feel comfortable putting himself under in that social situation.
 
ohayoco said:
SWIM has since had a dabble. Him and a few others were having a drink when someone's friend turned up with a big bag of the stuff so all had a go. He'd had 6 units of alcohol beforehand.
Click to expand...

K and alcohol don't mix well. Good thing you didn't take more, can make you really sick (it is an anaesthetic after all)!

Your best bet with K is to combine it with one of the 2cs or mdma.

By itself it lasts a lot shorter and imo feels empty.

2cb + k + your own home = perfection.

For the more experienced k + acid = completely immersive but yet very lucid exploration of different consciousness lands.

There's so much I could say about the good and bad points of K, but what I will say is the bad point is how blunted and messy it makes you, combining it with a classic psychedelic definitely makes this less of a problem.
 
Bancopuma said:
I think it is relatively safe, but IT IS addictive...if you do it a lot, it attacks your stomach lining. I know a guy who went to hospital for this, but can't stop using it.quote]


I spoke to someone over the weekend about ketamine..he told me he did k every day for about a year, and ended up with an ulcer like you say...he spoke highly of the nature of the K hole, but very strongly warned me of it's addictive efects, and emphasized the damage it had done to him. He said salvia was a much safer alternative for him..not saying I would never try it, but there seem to be alot of just sad and depressing ketamine stories out there..

I can tend to get into real melancholy at times, so I am weary of the coldness of dissociatives(which salvia doesn't have at all for me)..I like to explore but it's the life affirming, heart opening psychs I think I really allign with..do people find most synthetics to be to cold/mechanistic?..or just dissociatives?

Ketamine just seems to be one of those ones that you dont know where to put it..is it a psychedelic?, and entheogen? or a get fucked up party drug?..all 3?..if it were not for john lilly I would have wrote it off long ago. The only time I have seen it used was when it was abused in my opinion..like in every instance I saw it used the people were def not lying down and having near death trips at all, they were partying and drinking and snorting cocain.

Really i feel quite naive when it comes to dissociatives lately. I thought that all my salvia experiences would give me some sort of idea of what dissociatives are like in general..but I am starting to think salvia is so much diff from the dissociatives than I thought. I dont understand how someone could use salvia the way that people use ketamine..like while dancing? Ive seen this at raves lots of times..but when these people sit and hit the sage with me, they dont move anywhere! and actually look as if they are tripping!(edit..maybe its a dosage thing?)
Click to expand...
 
burnt said:
Put or purchase ketamine in some kind of saline solution. Fill a 1cc needle and stick it in your arm. Plunge it into your muscle. Lay in bed. This is the way to do ketamine. There is no negativity no unpleasant side effects. Pure anesthetic weirdness. Snorting or taking orally is a waste of good ketamine.
Click to expand...

I'm up for it, but every single person I know has a huge stigma against needles including my gf. Thing is, in this case it's the perfect way to administer the drug. Once you've injected it I'd imagine it's hard to go back to snorting it as well, which would pretty much mean the end of using it with friends in my case.
 
burnt said:
Put or purchase ketamine in some kind of saline solution. Fill a 1cc needle and stick it in your arm. Plunge it into your muscle. Lay in bed. This is the way to do ketamine. There is no negativity no unpleasant side effects. Pure anesthetic weirdness. Snorting or taking orally is a waste of good ketamine.
Click to expand...

Only if you're ok with needles, which SWIM is not. Needles should be only used by experienced health care professionals in a sanitary environment, in SWIMs opinion. And orally ingested or sublingual K seemed pretty unwasted to SWIM, horrid tasting if you have a weak stomach.
 
MalargueZiggy said:
burnt said:
Put or purchase ketamine in some kind of saline solution. Fill a 1cc needle and stick it in your arm. Plunge it into your muscle. Lay in bed. This is the way to do ketamine. There is no negativity no unpleasant side effects. Pure anesthetic weirdness. Snorting or taking orally is a waste of good ketamine.
Click to expand...

I'm up for it, but every single person I know has a huge stigma against needles including my gf. Thing is, in this case it's the perfect way to administer the drug. Once you've injected it I'd imagine it's hard to go back to snorting it as well, which would pretty much mean the end of using it with friends in my case.
Click to expand...


I know!..every ketamine user I have spoken with seemed really agaisnt the fact that the only way I would try it was injected into my muscles, by a trained anesthesiologist if possible, in the ideal setting. They always warn against overdose..which really should not be problem at those dosages.. If I ever do ketamine I want it to be perfect, very special and I want to prepare for it. I dont want to fusk up the dose with snorting it and have to do it all again.

I dont see the problem with injecting if you are 100% sure of the purity and have clean environment and utencils..I am quite sure the dose they give for surgery is much higher than a k-hole dosage, so it;s quite safe in that reguard.
 
I'm up for it, but every single person I know has a huge stigma against needles including my gf. Thing is, in this case it's the perfect way to administer the drug. Once you've injected it I'd imagine it's hard to go back to snorting it as well, which would pretty much mean the end of using it with friends in my case.
Click to expand...

Yea SWIMs ex girlfriend at the time didn't approve of needles either and eventually SWIM decided its not worth pissing her off anymore. Although in retrospect... anyway.

Once you have injected ketamine its like taking the drug to a level that you CANNOT reach with snorting. SWIM tried to snort as much K as possible to see if SWIM could reach the same state as IM. Its just not possible.

Ketamine is a pharmacuetical drug its safe and its meant to be injected. SWIM got it in pharmaceutical form SWIM wouldn't just take the powder and put it in solution to inject thats risky cause you don't know whats in it. But if its straight form the bottle its fine. Even if you injected the entire bottle at once you would just pass out. You couldn't die. They inject the entire bottle (10cc) to knock out animals like dogs. Injecting 1cc you can't OD. You don't need to be a trained doctor to do it either. Its very easy to inject intramuscularly. People with diabetes do it everyday. Use an alcohol swab and clean needle.

That place is addictive however. You can make virtual realities there. SWIM never got that into it but SWIMs friend started to become obsessed with his virtual realities he was creating in k land. One time he was crawling around on the floor acting like a dragon it was hysterical. hahaha But yea its truly a beautiful state SWIM wants to go back now. If SWIM had to compare IM Ketamine to smoked DMT SWIM would say ketamine wins. Oral dmt is another story. I can explain my reasoning but I think I already did in an earlier post.
 
^^Yes so I think SWIM should explain since this is a DMT themed website.

When SWIM would do ketamine IM there was no fear associated with the experience (post injection). SWIM could never experience fear despite the fact that the substance quite literally makes you lose pretty much all sensations about your body and the outside world. Its a very odd experience overall and the visual sensations are not like tryptamines. Its more like images in the minds eye although sometimes they can be VERY clear. Although I believe these images are projected from the sensory deprived mind much like what is claimed to happen in a sensory depravation experiment. There is no real euphoria like you can get with tryptamines but there is a very comfortable feeling when you are in the IM k-hole. Its not comfortable in any physical sense but SWIM has found a very peaceful place in that state. Its tough to explain. All in all it lasts about an hour is very conducive to sleeping and no real side effects from occasional (once a week or so for a couple months) use.

Smoked DMT to SWIM at low doses is enjoyable. Visuals are nice and the mind twisting is not too strong. Euphoria often goes with it. However SWIM does not really like high doses of smoked DMT simply because its too confusing and in some sense terrifying. Its too fast to think about anything other then "what the heck is going on" or "shut up and let gooooooooooooooooal;sdjk;fj)*(&^&(^%$(&^%" you know what SWIM means if you have been there. The only real thing so far SWIM has enjoyed about high dose smoked dmt is the euphoria that comes when you realize "thank god I am still alive". Oral DMT is a different story because it lasts longer and you can learn more from it and its more gentle.

So IM ketamine wins over smoked DMT because it lasts longer its more of a relaxing experience and there is no fear. Its also just fascinating because its so weird. So is DMT but SWIM finds smoking DMT to be a bit rough on its own. Oral is nicer or combining with other odd substances is also sometimes nice.
 
Hi all, I'm new here but I wanted to mention my experience with this topic. I find ketamine to be worthwhile on it's own, but somewhat vacant and lacking the insight and revelation that the tryptamines give me. However, I find ketamine and DMT to be extremely complementary when used together, in fact they are the best combination I have ever experienced. Ketamine space is vast and empty, while DMT space is crowded and full, bursting with life- they seem to balance each other out perfectly. I often explain it as ketamine being "space," and DMT being "suchness." Also, the ketamine would help me overcome my fear of the DMT rush, which is something that I struggle with normally. I would take a sub-K-hole dose of ketamine, and during the comeup I would get situated in a cozy bed and choose my music. Then I would take a hit of DMT, and suddenly the wide-open, vague spaces of ketamine would be flooded with color and life, far more expansive and dimensional than DMT on it's own, and without the normal fear and panic. This is not for the faint of heart- I experienced complete ego-death, I completely left my body and there was no way to know how long I was gone for. I have done this experiment a few times and every time was amazing.
 
Back
Top Bottom