Kratom and Changa (MAOI)

[Kafka Tamura]

Hi folks,

sad but true over the years I developed a habit for kratom which I use at least twice a day at amounts of 3-7g each time. I know that´s something I should consider to quit, but since I don´t drink coffee, nor smoke cigarettes or like alcohol a lot, it is my fuel that brings me through the day. Kratom also helped me to reduce my cannabis consumption from daily use to weekly or even monthly use and it helps with my irritable bowel syndrom that made me stay at home (or near a toilet) for lifeyears.

Does anybody know, if there is a problem when smoking changa while there´s still kratom in my system? Does the smoked MAOI will do any harm?

 

[Entheogenerator]

I don't know for certain, but I seem to remember reading somewhere that this combination may be dangerous. I would of course recommend that you err on the side of caution until you are 100% positive that the combination is safe. :thumb_up:

 

[Kafka Tamura]

Any experiences? Maybe changa and other (prescription) opioids?

 

[Cognitive Heart]

Does anybody know, if there is a problem when smoking changa while there´s still kratom in my system? Does the smoked MAOI will do any harm?

Which MAOI are you using? There is possibly some harm in using changa while kratom is still in your system. You could always just wait a few hours after consuming kratom and then continue with your changa smoking.. considering mitragynine produces short lasting effects.

http://toxnet.nlm.nih.gov/cgi-bin/sis/search/a?dbs+hsdb:@term+@DOCNO+7901

A notable distinction between mitragynine and traditional opioids is that mitragynine does not cause hypoventilation (respiratory depression) and therefore does not carry the primary safety risk associated with traditional opioids.

It is structurally related to both the yohimbe alkaloids and, more distantly, voacangine.

Mitragynine itself acts primarily via μ-opioid receptors, its oxidation product mitragynine pseudoindoxyl, acts as an even more potent and selective μ-opioid agonist but with less affinity for δ or κ receptors. Another alkaloid with a major contribution to the μ-opioid activity of the kratom plant is the related compound 7-hydroxymitragynine, which, while present in the plant in much smaller quantities than mitragynine, is a much more potent μ-opioid agonist.

Suppressive effect of mitragynine on the 5-methoxy-N,N-dimethyltryptamine-induced head-twitch response in mice.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/?term=mitragyna+and+dimethlytryptamine

Hope this is of aid.

:thumb_up:

 

[Continuum]

I also take kratom daily, in the 5-6 gram range plus occasional extracts, and have smoked changa with it. The last time I smoked I came out of the experience with the feeling that I should not mix the two any more. I think there are people who mix the two with no issue, but after paying careful attention I think there is some interaction. Mind you, this is purely antecdotal and I am not a doctor, and there is not a lot of solid info on the action of kratom in the body out there.

Personally, I believe I experience some hypertension during and immediately following the experience that I don't get with just enhanced leaf. It doesn't feel like a dangerous rise, but I have normally low blood pressure so I could see where it would be a problem for someone with high blood pressure to begin with.

Also, I've read that kratom has some action on seratonin reuptake and norepinepherine, so you could tread into seratonin syndrome areas. I am prone to migraines, and kratom extracts, changa sessions and not watching the amount of tyramine I consume has thrown me into a migraine before, though that may be attributable to just the RIMA and tyramine.

If you decide to give it a try (which I am not advising), I'd suggest smoking a small amount of your harmala infused herb before infusing the spice so you can be attentive to what's happening in your body.

Edit: Cognitive Heart posted while I was writing this up, and its looks like the attachments indicate some active component of kratom breaks down into tramadol, which is specifically contraindicted with MAOI, so there's more evidence its risky to mix the two. Its less risk with RIMAs and the shorter duration of smoking, but you don't want a medical emergency under the influence of DMT, to be sure.

 

[Kafka Tamura]

Thank you guys. I wasn't going to smoke changa right after drinking kratom, but I was afraid that small traces could be harmful.

Do you agree that waiting for let's say 8 hours after consuming kratom would be a good idea before smoking changa? I hope to extract my first spice next week, so I can give it a try without maoi. This might be the safest way, right?

Edit: continuum: the text relates to 'krypton' a former legal-high that contains o-desmethyl-tramadol. Kratom itself doesn't brake down to tramadol!