Levels/stages in DMT

[Electric Kool-Aid]

I was posting in another topic about Levels in DMT. Thought it might belong in another topic, hope you guys don't mind!

This is off topic. but can someone tell me the levels you go at? level 1 colorful patterns. Level 2 a wormhole hyperspace to another place. Level 3 meet entities. Level 4 ego death / birth? some have death in small breakthroughs?

Sorry for the offtopic, but I felt I needed to say this: there is no such thing when dealing with psychedelics. I don't even know where this kind of "theory" came from, because I stumbled upon it before trying any psychedelics, and I find it so very confusing and untrue, now that I have done this stuff. You get what you need, there's no pattern; no "level". There just is, the actual experience. Speaking from my own [admittedly limited] experience.

Terence McKenna talked about stuff like this with geometric patterns and seeing a Chrysanthemum. then if you take "one more hit" you break through in to hyperspace, then he hears a cheer of some sort.


There is also some mention of breaking through wormholes to other worlds and if taking enough you can go through more wormholes hyperspace to other worlds (so to speak).

I would like to know more or hear more on this or experiences that mention this type of Levels thing.

 

[rjb]

No, don't get me wrong. All journeys share some characteristics, but that's different as opposed to, say, this:
- take 20 mg and you get entity contact
- take 30 mg and you get oneness
- take 40 mg and you'll have a recurring death experience
...etc

This is what I was talking about. It's unfair, but most of all impossible to characterize experiences like that. Also keep in mind that each brings his own contribution to the story (imagination wise). That is to say, don't take everything literally.

Just wanted to clarify.

 

[Electric Kool-Aid]

I understand the dose amount thing because we all have different bodies. So dosing doesn't control your level. But the other thing I am trying to understand, is the visual pattern part in low doses and then take more and you break through. Then there are is ego birth and death, just trying to find out if there is a way to tell how to control this.
Let's look at birth and death and the release of DMT. Wouldnt it make sense that some level of dmt inhaled will put you there.

Continue in a bit, break over....

 

[DoctorMantus]

Depending on the dosage, the effects of DMT can range from a multitude of sensations, from bizarre, beautiful and even 'impossible' visions to literally jaw hanging awe as one is propelled into other dimensions of existence where human language and logic cannot even begin to describe or comprehend.

The following is an excerpt from Psychedelic Monographs and Essays which discusses the different levels of a DMT experience:

Level I: Pre-Hallucinatory experience

This stage is characterized by an interior flowing of energy/consciousness. It may be extremely intense. It may have a positive feeling content.

Level II: Vivid, brilliantly colored, geometric visual hallucinations

Here one is observing a patterned field, basically two dimensional, although it may have a pulsating quality. One may remember having seen this before.

Transitional Phase (Level IIB?): tunnel or breakthrough experience

One may see or fly through a tunnel (a passage to the next level). A veil may part, a membrane may be rent. There is a breakthrough to another world (or perhaps even a series of breakthroughs).
Alternatively, it may also happen that the transition from Level II to Level III is abrupt, almost instantaneous, with no experience of transition.

Level III: Three- or higher-dimensional space, possible contact with entities.

This stage is characterized by the experience of being in an "objective" space, that is, a space of at least three dimensions in which objects or entities may be encountered.

Sometimes the entities appear to be intelligent and communicating beings. This stage may be extremely energetic with an experience of everything happening incomprehensibly fast. Alternatively it may be relatively coherent.

Travel is possible at Level III. One may, for example, assume the form and consciousness of a bird, and fly as a bird does (cf. Castaneda, The Teachings of Don Juan pp. 191-196). The limits of of this stage, if any, are unknown. There may be transitions to further stages.

If one would like to read some first hand experiences of DMT journeys, you can download a collection of DMT trip reports here.
Heres the link where i got it- The DMT Nexus - FAQ

I have also heard from people, on some levels you can see in 4d basically you see all sides of something at once.

 

[dav0r328]

Stage 1 Chrysanthemum with eyes closed eyes open colors on edge
Stage 2 breakthrough into another space may encounter entities Cant tell if eyes are open or closed at this point
Stage 3 Ego death / rebirth with very fast zooming hallucinations
Stage 4 Tumbling so fast down the rabbit hole that its hard to grasp any concept of reality. May feel like your in this space for eternity and can be frighting causing many to put down the spice for sometime.

Dosage can vary depending on what type of method and how long its held in Etc.
(all in my experience)

 

[endlessness]

I think levels may only apply to lower levels... Things get so weird after a certain level that its impossible to classify it in stages....

 

[Electric Kool-Aid]

OK
Thanks guys for clearing this brainstorm and theory I had an have heard. This type of thing makes sense and I think can be somewhat controlled. I am sure it is also crazy uncontrollable too. But with some direction there.

So I am wondering where the ego birth/death fits in here. Do we all get one sometime? is it an initiation sort of thing and once done you are complete and never have it again? or do they happen at random like Russian roulette and can mess with you any time? Plus I am wondering if this is part of a level.

I am just curious, and sorry of my lack of knowledge on this subject. I am sure there are lots who would like to know this information too!!! Maybe a wiki section on the levels thing!

 

[obliguhl]

I don't know if you can make up a hierarchy. there are just different experiences. Some of them:

The first: I can move my body and experience mild 2D Visuals with eyes closed and open.
The second: I'm completely immersed in some three dimensional space with rotating and moving stuff in it
The third: I leave my body completely and visit this space
The fourth: I at the source with the distinct feeling that this is exactly IT.

etc etc

Level III: Three- or higher-dimensional space, possible contact with entities.

This stage is characterized by the experience of being in an "objective" space, that is, a space of at least three dimensions in which objects or entities may be encountered.

See, this is what i imagine to be a breakthrough experience. What you classify as a "breakthrough" would be a sub-breakthrough, yet immersive experience for me. Semantics.

 

[d*l*b]

In my experiences I only note two stages that could be seen as distinct, and sometimes I only get one or the other. For me it basically boils down to an initial entry phase and everything else that happens after that.

My DMT experiences are so random I really can’t say they follow any format as such, just a very wide variety of random visionary states. I see influences in them at times, the ones I can pin down are due to my situation at the time, so they vary from journey to journey.