Long Covid, Serotonin, and Memory

[Voidmatrix]

Maybe it hasn't much to do with the Long Covid syndrome but it's worth sharing I guess

One of the major symptoms of COVID-19 is the loss of smell/taste during the infection and recovery. Some experience it for days, some for weeks (or in my case a couple of months...)

I read a bit of it somewhere a few years ago during lockdown so don't quote me on it because I cannot readily find the resource again. But, there were some informal studies/experiences out there of ex-COVID-19 patients who lost their smell and ingested LSD with a temporarily restored sense of smell as the outcome. Correspondingly, after ingestion of LSD, they experienced their sense of smell again during the trip and for a few days afterwards after which it gradually disappeared (Unfortunately, I failed to self-replicate this). However, I'm not sure if there were some reliable control groups & if the renewed sense or smell was placebo or something similar...

Altogether, LSD affects serotonin levels so it could be plausible that Long Covid syndrome has something to do with serotonin levels.

Yeah, it could be something other than long-covid, but I'm entertaining the possibility based on my experience and correspondence of symptoms. It could also be depression which has also been shown to impact cognition.

I feel like in my case, there was improvement and then slight decline. I have been taking 5htp daily which seems to help in general, but don't know if that general assistance is addressing what I'm assuming may belong covid.

I do notice benefits regarding my specific cognitive issues whenever I interact with something serotonergic, but am wondering if there would be more benefit from working with more phenethylamines.

One love

 

[the red squirrel]

Maybe it hasn't much to do with the Long Covid syndrome but it's worth sharing I guess

One of the major symptoms of COVID-19 is the loss of smell/taste during the infection and recovery. Some experience it for days, some for weeks (or in my case a couple of months...)

I read a bit of it somewhere a few years ago during lockdown so don't quote me on it because I cannot readily find the resource again. But, there were some informal studies/experiences out there of ex-COVID-19 patients who lost their smell and ingested LSD with a temporarily restored sense of smell as the outcome. Correspondingly, after ingestion of LSD, they experienced their sense of smell again during the trip and for a few days afterwards after which it gradually disappeared (Unfortunately, I failed to self-replicate this). However, I'm not sure if there were some reliable control groups & if the renewed sense or smell was placebo or something similar...

Altogether, LSD affects serotonin levels so it could be plausible that Long Covid syndrome has something to do with serotonin levels.

Yeah, it could be something other than long-covid, but I'm entertaining the possibility based on my experience and correspondence of symptoms. It could also be depression which has also been shown to impact cognition.

I feel like in my case, there was improvement and then slight decline. I have been taking 5htp daily which seems to help in general, but don't know if that general assistance is addressing what I'm assuming may belong covid.

I do notice benefits regarding my specific cognitive issues whenever I interact with something serotonergic, but am wondering if there would be more benefit from working with more phenethylamines.

One love

One of the common symptoms of long covid is depression. So, there you have an extra correlation which may impacts it all.

Phenethylamines would be an interesting route? Like in micro- or macrodosing?

 

[Voidmatrix]

It may be that it accelerated and increased lifelong depression.

I was actually thinking a little of both. What do you think?

One love

 

[LizKing]

It may be that it accelerated and increased lifelong depression.

I was actually thinking a little of both. What do you think?

One love

Void, having covid five times is pretty nasty, glad you are finding your way through it. I picked it up in Jan '22 and it knocked me over for 6 months barely able to leave the house. I was walking an hour a day at that time and feeling on top of the world. The next day I was floored, chair bound and it felt like my brain had been removed. The smashing depression was not much fun either, but it did go.

You symptoms are much like mine were, not only no energy and sleeping day and night, but I couldn't think. I'm an author and I couldn't even read a paragraph from one of the books I needed for my research let alone write a sentence.

Then in June an ex patient of mine dropped in and we chatted about covid and his recent heart surgery. he said that he turned to herbs for treatment rather than take the meds his doc recommended. he said he hasn't looked back. So I asked what he took and did my research and ordered my herbs. Within three days of boiling, cooling and drinking my herbal tea I began to pick up. But, it still took me another year and a half before I could think about writing again.

Two weeks ago my wife and I went with our kids and grandkids to a south pacific island resort for Christmas. It was lovely the first few days, lots swimming and happy hour was great but half way through we all got covid, damn!

The heat and humidity made my wife and I almost pass out on our way home. The airport was not airconditioned and the 4 hr wait to fly out almost killed us. I must say that this second (or maybe more since I didn't test previous periods of unwellness) was no where near as bad as the 1st, thank the gods, but it hasn't been much fun. I tested negative a few days ago and have been feeling OK, but the humidity where I live, sub tropics, has really hit hard. So much for trying to save a few dollars on turning the aircon off early, i can't even sleep without it now.

There are two major positive take-outs from this nasty experience: after 6 months of long covid I started exploring alternatives, like mushrooms, now I grow my own; soon after discovering shrooms I explored marijuana for fatigue and sleep, OMG it worked. Now I am sleeping like a babe and meditating with a combination of the two, low dose and microdose are what works for me. In many ways I am grateful for what came out of my covid experience.

As per the article, I've read it and others that point to the importance of our gut microbiome to our immune system including serotonin production. I'm vegan and eat very well mostly avoiding vegan junk food, though I do love it. The only time during these two years have I got the trots was from eating massive amounts of watermelon, mangoes and papaya to get over this 2nd dose of covid.

 

[dragonrider]

It may be that it accelerated and increased lifelong depression.

I was actually thinking a little of both. What do you think?

One love

Void, having covid five times is pretty nasty, glad you are finding your way through it. I picked it up in Jan '22 and it knocked me over for 6 months barely able to leave the house. I was walking an hour a day at that time and feeling on top of the world. The next day I was floored, chair bound and it felt like my brain had been removed. The smashing depression was not much fun either, but it did go.

You symptoms are much like mine were, not only no energy and sleeping day and night, but I couldn't think. I'm an author and I couldn't even read a paragraph from one of the books I needed for my research let alone write a sentence.

Then in June an ex patient of mine dropped in and we chatted about covid and his recent heart surgery. he said that he turned to herbs for treatment rather than take the meds his doc recommended. he said he hasn't looked back. So I asked what he took and did my research and ordered my herbs. Within three days of boiling, cooling and drinking my herbal tea I began to pick up. But, it still took me another year and a half before I could think about writing again.

Two weeks ago my wife and I went with our kids and grandkids to a south pacific island resort for Christmas. It was lovely the first few days, lots swimming and happy hour was great but half way through we all got covid, damn!

The heat and humidity made my wife and I almost pass out on our way home. The airport was not airconditioned and the 4 hr wait to fly out almost killed us. I must say that this second (or maybe more since I didn't test previous periods of unwellness) was no where near as bad as the 1st, thank the gods, but it hasn't been much fun. I tested negative a few days ago and have been feeling OK, but the humidity where I live, sub tropics, has really hit hard. So much for trying to save a few dollars on turning the aircon off early, i can't even sleep without it now.

There are two major positive take-outs from this nasty experience: after 6 months of long covid I started exploring alternatives, like mushrooms, now I grow my own; soon after discovering shrooms I explored marijuana for fatigue and sleep, OMG it worked. Now I am sleeping like a babe and meditating with a combination of the two, low dose and microdose are what works for me. In many ways I am grateful for what came out of my covid experience.

As per the article, I've read it and others that point to the importance of our gut microbiome to our immune system including serotonin production. I'm vegan and eat very well mostly avoiding vegan junk food, though I do love it. The only time during these two years have I got the trots was from eating massive amounts of watermelon, mangoes and papaya to get over this 2nd dose of covid.

When i had covid, all i could do is sleep. The first two days i tried taking a walk, but where i can normally walk for hours, i was totally worn out after maybe just ten or twenty minutes. I then realized that it was probably best to just go with it and not drain my body from any other drop of energy needed to fight off this virus.

It was discovered very early on during the pandemic, that people who exercise heavily, like athletes or marines, where much more likely to get very sick from the virus.

I can totally imagine heat to be absolutely unbearable when you've got covid or when recovering from it. It made me feel quite stuffy already without any tropical heat or moist.

 

[LizKing]

When i had covid, all i could do is sleep. The first two days i tried taking a walk, but where i can normally walk for hours, i was totally worn out after maybe just ten or twenty minutes. I then realized that it was probably best to just go with it and not drain my body from any other drop of energy needed to fight off this virus.

It was discovered very early on during the pandemic, that people who exercise heavily, like athletes or marines, where much more likely to get very sick from the virus.

I can totally imagine heat to be absolutely unbearable when you've got covid or when recovering from it. It made me feel quite stuffy already without any tropical heat or moist.

Hi Dragonrider, covid is nasty stuff isn't it, that feeling of being smashed with fatigue after exercise they call 'Post Exertion Malaise', it's common with chronic fatigue sufferers too. Anyone who exercises a lot and tries to use that as a way to break through their post exertion malaise must really hit the wall at times.

Covid has impacted so many people who are now having to go to work and operate as before but the darn virus just won't go away. Who knows what the long term effects on society will be.

As per serotonin production, 95% of which occurs on the bowels produced by our good bacteria, it must surely be reduced in people with covid. I think that the depression can't just be because we feel so unwell and can't do anything, I'd say low levels of serotonin probably contribute to it.

 

[WarpZone]

A decent review of the long COVID mechanisms & pathology: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092867424008869

It can damage all of your circulatory system including blood vessels in the brain and cause permanent nerve damage to your heart, hence fatigue and exercise intolerance. Also it can linger in the gut and possibly be chronic infection for some, like some other viruses.

I have had it already 7 times, first and the second were the worst. First it was just funny dream like fever without actual fever, even felt euphoric and trippy for a few days. Then 2-3 months of hardcore chronic headache and a very dry cough, felt like all of the muscles and blood vessels in my head were about to explode. The coughing made me actually see some weird fractals for a few seconds many times because it was so bad, probably combined with hypertension. Could not do much of anything, felt faint standing even for a little while. Eventually got almost back to health just to be re-infected again and every subsequent infection has been less intense but they will last for at least a month and are still pretty nasty. Acute infection is just mostly headache and bad cough, but memory problems have become apparent, I sometimes smell smoke/burnt without any actual smoke present, circulatory problems, hard to focus, fatigue and blood clots in my legs. All of these continue months after the initial infection is presumably over. Sometimes I see tracers of my hands in the morning and other weird neurological symptoms. Got psoriasis every time I got infected too, apparently it can activate latent autoimmune diseases. I have never before had any skin issues before this. Also nasty joint pains.

What I have tried and noticed some benefit, not in any particular order:
Boswellia Serrata, Grape Seed Extract, Ginkgo Biloba, Zinc, Vitamin D, Aspirin, Coffee, NAC, Propolis, Ginseng, Sildenafil, Harmala alkaloids (note: not everything at once)

Mostly NAC, Propolis, Coffee and Aspirin make the initial infection bearable and other are long term health benefit for blood vessels and the brain. I have also taken tinctures made of Tynnanthus panurensis, Muira Puama, Myrrh and Chaga. Royal Jelly should be useful based on past experience unrelated to Covid. I have also tried Mucuna Pruriens, Cat's Claw, Cryptolepis Sanguinolenta, Ganoderma lucidum, CBD, CBN, CBG and various other herbs and spices. Rosemary and garlic are somewhat helpful.

Literally nothing will make this disease go away or keep it away for me. I do not even know anyone else who has had a nasty ride with this, for the most it's just 1 week bad flu, probably has to do with genetics. I'm lucky if I have 1 week of normal health here and there and it has been already 2 years this way.

Interesting theory about the serotonin/5-HTP. I have taken tryptophan but it just does what it always does, makes my dreams crazy. Another weird thing about COVID, it makes me crazy hungry? Never before has any disease made me hungry, quite the opposite.

Please do your research if you try any of the above, some of them have very dangerous interactions so they cannot be taken at the same time or even on the same day

 

[dithyramb]

I've had COVID twice for sure, perhaps once more though that was undiagnosed and the prevalent view was that it was part of a swine flu epidemic. As the virus continuously evolves and the symptoms change, it feels impossible to recognize it through the years.

The first infection was the classic hardcore delta strain infection. İt was quite horrible with brain fog, complete loss of smell and taste, and severe lethargy. It happened right when I was by where I harvest my rue and mistletoe, and it was rue season. I drank fresh mistletoe tea and ate raw rue seeds, and inhaled a lot of fresh rue smoke everyday. I would feel energized (lethargy would disappear) after each mistletoe tea (I also ate the leaves after drinking the tea). And eating rue would give me a cozy internal euphoria and well being feeling, with mental capacity restored. These were temporary effects. İn the end, my disease symptoms cleared out permanently in about 8 days, with full recovery of smell and taste which I feel is remarkable. I have the feeling that inhaling rue smoke definitely had a protective effect on my brain. I was also drinking lots of lemon juice everyday.

The second one was during the omega variant time. İt felt like a mild flu though this time I had a severe cough unlike the first time. I didn't really do anything special to treat it. It took longer to clear out.

That final uncertain infection was nasty with severe fever preventing me from sleeping for about two weeks, and a virtually unending cough. My rue stocks had spoiled (became extremely impotent from being exposed to air and heat. That was quite a lesson about herb storage!). I ate a lot of black seed powder and drank a lot of fresh wild oregano tea. I didn't feel like they were making a difference, but perhaps they prevented it from getting worse. Later I started drinking some cistus which felt like it made a more substantial change in symptoms.

I am very grateful to have always recovered completely and my faith in certain fresh plants is full. Rue has a strong effect on the gut, as well as the serotonin cycle.

İn the long term, I am considering making and supplementing with pine cone and/or reishi and/or turkey tail extracts, all locally available.

 

[Voidmatrix]

Void, having covid five times is pretty nasty, glad you are finding your way through it. I picked it up in Jan '22 and it knocked me over for 6 months barely able to leave the house. I was walking an hour a day at that time and feeling on top of the world. The next day I was floored, chair bound and it felt like my brain had been removed. The smashing depression was not much fun either, but it did go.

You symptoms are much like mine were, not only no energy and sleeping day and night, but I couldn't think. I'm an author and I couldn't even read a paragraph from one of the books I needed for my research let alone write a sentence.

Then in June an ex patient of mine dropped in and we chatted about covid and his recent heart surgery. he said that he turned to herbs for treatment rather than take the meds his doc recommended. he said he hasn't looked back. So I asked what he took and did my research and ordered my herbs. Within three days of boiling, cooling and drinking my herbal tea I began to pick up. But, it still took me another year and a half before I could think about writing again.

Two weeks ago my wife and I went with our kids and grandkids to a south pacific island resort for Christmas. It was lovely the first few days, lots swimming and happy hour was great but half way through we all got covid, damn!

The heat and humidity made my wife and I almost pass out on our way home. The airport was not airconditioned and the 4 hr wait to fly out almost killed us. I must say that this second (or maybe more since I didn't test previous periods of unwellness) was no where near as bad as the 1st, thank the gods, but it hasn't been much fun. I tested negative a few days ago and have been feeling OK, but the humidity where I live, sub tropics, has really hit hard. So much for trying to save a few dollars on turning the aircon off early, i can't even sleep without it now.

There are two major positive take-outs from this nasty experience: after 6 months of long covid I started exploring alternatives, like mushrooms, now I grow my own; soon after discovering shrooms I explored marijuana for fatigue and sleep, OMG it worked. Now I am sleeping like a babe and meditating with a combination of the two, low dose and microdose are what works for me. In many ways I am grateful for what came out of my covid experience.

As per the article, I've read it and others that point to the importance of our gut microbiome to our immune system including serotonin production. I'm vegan and eat very well mostly avoiding vegan junk food, though I do love it. The only time during these two years have I got the trots was from eating massive amounts of watermelon, mangoes and papaya to get over this 2nd dose of covid.

@LizKing I'm so sorry, I either forgot about this or I simply missed it. However, thank you so much for sharing about your experience. The brain fog and cognitive dysfunction is something that I feel like has been killing me for a while. It makes me really not want to do much. And I think that the cognitive aspect is what I may still be dealing with after all this time. My fatigue is back to "normal," meaning that it seems like and feels more in line with my experience of fatigue from persistent depression. That's a much easier form of fatigue to deal with than that from long covid for me (granted, they could've been compounding which would also make it seem worse or harder to manage).

TBH, I'm starting to realize that me falling off here in some ways has been a result of the cognitive issues that I feel. It just seems harder to "keep up" than it used to.

A decent review of the long COVID mechanisms & pathology: https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0092867424008869

It can damage all of your circulatory system including blood vessels in the brain and cause permanent nerve damage to your heart, hence fatigue and exercise intolerance. Also it can linger in the gut and possibly be chronic infection for some, like some other viruses.

I have had it already 7 times, first and the second were the worst. First it was just funny dream like fever without actual fever, even felt euphoric and trippy for a few days. Then 2-3 months of hardcore chronic headache and a very dry cough, felt like all of the muscles and blood vessels in my head were about to explode. The coughing made me actually see some weird fractals for a few seconds many times because it was so bad, probably combined with hypertension. Could not do much of anything, felt faint standing even for a little while. Eventually got almost back to health just to be re-infected again and every subsequent infection has been less intense but they will last for at least a month and are still pretty nasty. Acute infection is just mostly headache and bad cough, but memory problems have become apparent, I sometimes smell smoke/burnt without any actual smoke present, circulatory problems, hard to focus, fatigue and blood clots in my legs. All of these continue months after the initial infection is presumably over. Sometimes I see tracers of my hands in the morning and other weird neurological symptoms. Got psoriasis every time I got infected too, apparently it can activate latent autoimmune diseases. I have never before had any skin issues before this. Also nasty joint pains.

What I have tried and noticed some benefit, not in any particular order:
Boswellia Serrata, Grape Seed Extract, Ginkgo Biloba, Zinc, Vitamin D, Aspirin, Coffee, NAC, Propolis, Ginseng, Sildenafil, Harmala alkaloids (note: not everything at once)

Mostly NAC, Propolis, Coffee and Aspirin make the initial infection bearable and other are long term health benefit for blood vessels and the brain. I have also taken tinctures made of Tynnanthus panurensis, Muira Puama, Myrrh and Chaga. Royal Jelly should be useful based on past experience unrelated to Covid. I have also tried Mucuna Pruriens, Cat's Claw, Cryptolepis Sanguinolenta, Ganoderma lucidum, CBD, CBN, CBG and various other herbs and spices. Rosemary and garlic are somewhat helpful.

Literally nothing will make this disease go away or keep it away for me. I do not even know anyone else who has had a nasty ride with this, for the most it's just 1 week bad flu, probably has to do with genetics. I'm lucky if I have 1 week of normal health here and there and it has been already 2 years this way.

Interesting theory about the serotonin/5-HTP. I have taken tryptophan but it just does what it always does, makes my dreams crazy. Another weird thing about COVID, it makes me crazy hungry? Never before has any disease made me hungry, quite the opposite.

Please do your research if you try any of the above, some of them have very dangerous interactions so they cannot be taken at the same time or even on the same day

Thank you so much for sharing, providing feedback, as well as providing a list of alternatives and remedies. I have tried many of those as well and do find them helpful also. What I've been doing as of late, when I can make myself and keep up with it, is lots of CBD (helps with so many other things anyway), mushroom microdosing (which makes my mind more fluid), somewhat regular DMT/harmala/changa work (which I do anyway), and 5-HTP. I recently fell off of 5-HTP and was pretty low and down and having a hard time functioning. I then started taking 200mg every night again and have been feeling better. If you do try 5-HTP please do share what your experience is like. It may take you a few weeks to notice anything.

I take propolis everyday also for immunity, but am now wondering if it played a role in helping me get a little better since initially posting the OP.

Also, I have had it 6 times. I just try to roll with it when it comes now.

I've had COVID twice for sure, perhaps once more though that was undiagnosed and the prevalent view was that it was part of a swine flu epidemic. As the virus continuously evolves and the symptoms change, it feels impossible to recognize it through the years.

The first infection was the classic hardcore delta strain infection. İt was quite horrible with brain fog, complete loss of smell and taste, and severe lethargy. It happened right when I was by where I harvest my rue and mistletoe, and it was rue season. I drank fresh mistletoe tea and ate raw rue seeds, and inhaled a lot of fresh rue smoke everyday. I would feel energized (lethargy would disappear) after each mistletoe tea (I also ate the leaves after drinking the tea). And eating rue would give me a cozy internal euphoria and well being feeling, with mental capacity restored. These were temporary effects. İn the end, my disease symptoms cleared out permanently in about 8 days, with full recovery of smell and taste which I feel is remarkable. I have the feeling that inhaling rue smoke definitely had a protective effect on my brain. I was also drinking lots of lemon juice everyday.

The second one was during the omega variant time. İt felt like a mild flu though this time I had a severe cough unlike the first time. I didn't really do anything special to treat it. It took longer to clear out.

That final uncertain infection was nasty with severe fever preventing me from sleeping for about two weeks, and a virtually unending cough. My rue stocks had spoiled (became extremely impotent from being exposed to air and heat. That was quite a lesson about herb storage!). I ate a lot of black seed powder and drank a lot of fresh wild oregano tea. I didn't feel like they were making a difference, but perhaps they prevented it from getting worse. Later I started drinking some cistus which felt like it made a more substantial change in symptoms.

I am very grateful to have always recovered completely and my faith in certain fresh plants is full. Rue has a strong effect on the gut, as well as the serotonin cycle.

İn the long term, I am considering making and supplementing with pine cone and/or reishi and/or turkey tail extracts, all locally available.

I really appreciate this, @dithyramb . It's a gentle reminder to get back to regular rue dosing again. If I get it again, I will certainly be trying the mistletoe tea and also drinking lots of rue.

Why do you feel the smoke was protective for your brain? I'm curious. I'll look for any excuse to inhale rue

One thing I have yet to experience is the loss of smell. I'll have to look it up again, but there's something very specific that goes on neurologically as a result of covid infection that leads to this symptom.

Thank you Earth for the plants. Thank you plants for all you teach and do.

One love

 

[dithyramb]

Hi Void,

As far as I understand, the nasal cavity provides a direct link to the brain unlike any other part of the body. Thus inhaling through the nose would be a direct /shortcut way to the brain... I'm not an expert but this is what I believe.

Raw rue smoke really burns the nose when you inhale it. That's a somatic sign that it is bioactive. And it is a plant known to be antiviral and neuroprotective (also antiinflammatory), and I am assuming/hoping that these properties are carried on to the smoke. Inhaling rue smoke is a living tradition for treating health conditions and/or spiritual cleansing purposes.


The number one plant for brain health/brain maintenance for me among everything I have tried is rue.

For effects on the gut, you would need to eat or drink rue. Drinking rue regularly keeps my intestines healthy and working well regularly.

Mistletoe is also antiviral alongside with being immune enhancing. Studies report that it also is neuroprotective. Eating a lot of leaves has given me a similar state of mental power as San Pedro. And it has this effect on energy levels and most likely its enhancement of the circulatory system is involved in this effect.

I wish you all the best in your healing journey.

 

[Voidmatrix]

Thank you for sharing that rationale. That makes sense. Guess I'll be leaning over the pan and inhaling deeply when I make brews in the future.

I have a large batch that I made a long while ago that I'm wondering if it is still good or not...

I have some soursop in my etsy cart, perhaps I'll be adding some mistletoe as well. Tis the season to be concerned about immunity, fra lala la la lala la la.

How much mistletoe do you recommend?

Thank you again for the valuable information.

One love

 

[Transform]

Later I started drinking some cistus which felt like it made a more substantial change in symptoms.

I'd like to highlight this in case anyone overlooked it. I can attest to cistus' (aka rock rose) efficacy in stopping viral infections on multiple occasions. A family member came down with a cold a couple of days ago and I started to experience the first symptoms shortly before drinking my nightly tea blend which often includes cistus. The cold symptoms went away and have not returned. This is a personal story, not medical advice

And thanks in large part to @dithyramb's posts, mistletoe has become a regular part of my health regimen