Long term effects of frequent DMT use on sensory modalities

[Psychodelirium]

I am wondering if any of you more experienced folks have experienced any chronic or permanent alterations in the way your brain processes sensory information similar to HPPD as a result of frequently tripping on DMT. SWIM has not had any truly intense and transformative DMT experiences, but he has definitely noticed changes in his wiring. For example, ever since SWIM first partook of the spice, he has become acutely aware of hypnagogic imagery and can bring it into three dimensions by concentration. If you're not sure what I'm talking about, these are closed-eye distortions you will sometimes notice in your visual field right before falling asleep. SWIM has never noticed nor payed attention to these things before smoking DMT, but now he is able to consciously play around with them.

One session of such playing around abruptly produced a vivid, photographically realistic scene, as if dreaming. SWIM was so startled by this (since he was still completely awake) that the scene faded away almost immediately. He had not done DMT or any other psychoactive drugs for a long time when this happened.

Another long term effect has been on the presentation of mushroom trips. Prior to smoking DMT, SWIM has never noticed any visuals during mushroom trips; they have always been, as one trip report eloquently puts it, "a visceral apprehension of fundamental truths." Since DMT, however, SWIM can experience or dismiss mushroom visuals during his trips almost as a matter of choice.

 

[69ron]

I can at will have HPPD like effects. I believe this is a learned disorder and has nothing really to do with psychedelics. Basically, psychedelics allow you to go into a state where you creatively fill in visual data using your imagination. Some people get into the habit of looking at the walls and seeing patterns form and this gets out of hand.

People can have HPPD who've never used psychedelics, just by simply looking at clouds too much to find images in the clouds, or looking at patterns on the wall, etc. Once you learn how to make patterns form, you're basically unleashing the same visual powers that psychedelics can unleash.

I can stare at the wall and cause images to appear if I like, or just look at the detail in the wall. Its a conscious choice. People with HPPD have apparently no control over this.

Pattern recognition is a brain skill and it can be overused. The brain can find familiar patterns in pure white noise if it looks hard enough. HPPD is basically a state of mind where pattern recognition is accelerated, similar to what psychedelics do. Anyone can develop it. People who use psychedelics and stare at the wall in hopes of seeing things, often start seeing images appearing in the wall. Sometimes its not the psychedelic doing it but rather the person putting great effort into pattern recognition is forcing their brain to see images. That kind of behavior can become a habit, and when that happens, you have HPPD.

Anyway, that's my understanding of it.

When I was a child, I learned how to do this. I had a lot of fun with it. Usually I used a TV tuned to a non-existent station so I'd see white noise. I'd stare at the TV and in all the dancing white noise dots, I would eventually see images forming. It was a lot of fun. Pretty much anything I imagined would appear on the screen. I got really good at it. But I was able to control it. It never got out of hand. With HPPD, this skill gets out of hand and the person is unable to stop it.

I think through proper visual training a person with HPPD can learn to control it and that psychedelics can be very helpful for this. Taking LSD everyday until you become immune to the effects seems to help quite a bit. I've seen people go from freaked out to completely normal after taking LSD everyday for a week. Somehow this forces the brain back into baseline as the brain builds immunity to the LSD.

I have personally known only 1 person with HPPD. He used ecstasy (MDMA) everyday for about 2 years and thinks this is what caused it. Ecstasy is not a very visual drug, but then again it has been shown to cause some damage with long term use, so maybe it can cause HPPD that is a physical condition caused by brain damage. I still think this is a learned disorder though. The guy would use ecstasy and try to have visual effects from it by staring at the wall while high. This is a known trigger for HPPD like effects in people who don't even use drugs.

SWIM knows people who've used the classic psychedelics (LSD, mushrooms, peyote, etc.) hundreds of times for many years and none of them ever developed any problems of any kind.

 

[Psychodelirium]

Yes, this is how I see it, too. I actually now find it very easy to induce HPPD symptoms like heightened awareness of snow in the visual field, floaters, false motion etc., whenever I am in a meditative state and attentive to what my brain is doing. But I find it equally easy to tune this stuff out. I don't at all think it is necessarily pathological. In fact if you look at any kind of "occult work" that includes meditation, trance induction exercises, and so on, these symptoms are actually sought after and are encouraging signs. Exercising pattern recognition is like building a user interface to the subconscious mind.

One thing I forgot to mention is mechanical stimulation of the retina, which now occasionally brings on faint but distinctly DMT-like mandalas, membranes, and witchy script, as opposed to the standard fare of random phosphenes and visual noise. When SWIM first encountered DMT in a huasca mixture, he could not get any CEVs and remained almost completely sober until accidentally rubbing his eyes, which brought on extremely vivid and coherent CEVs immediately. I recommend this as an experiment with low to moderate doses if you find the visual detail lacking. It seems that stimulating the retina also stimulates the visual cortex in a very direct and effective way.

 

[69ron]

Yeah, rubbing or slight pressure on the eyes can stimulate visual effects even without the use of drugs. This is a good trick to know about. Just don't rub too hard or put too much pressure on the eyes. A little is all that's needed.

I can right now close my eyes, put slight pressure for about 15 seconds, and I immediately start having very colorful visual effects with the eyes closed. I used to do that at night when I was a child to help get dreaming started. It works pretty well.

 

[Bancopuma]

My dreams have taken on new visionary dimension following psychedelic, and possibly DMT use in particular, where I experience very powerful and realistic visual effects in my dreams, sometimes spontaneously, sometimes following ingestion of something...in fact dreams featuring intoxication feature more. Also I have had a few times where I've woken up from dreaming to find I'm experiencing very DMT like visuals for a while...and yes visual effects can be brought on when I choose to notice them, particularly at night or in the dark.

 

[memo]

I've seen colors ever since my first psychedelic use almost 40 years ago. It is noticeably stronger since smoking spice. It has never been problematic. It is almost like I am able to see something that I was missing before. I haven't had persistent tracers or anything that interfered with day to day functionality.

 

[jamie]

My dreams have taken on new visionary dimension following psychedelic, and possibly DMT use in particular, where I experience very powerful and realistic visual effects in my dreams, sometimes spontaneously, sometimes following ingestion of something...in fact dreams featuring intoxication feature more. Also I have had a few times where I've woken up from dreaming to find I'm experiencing very DMT like visuals for a while...and yes visual effects can be brought on when I choose to notice them, particularly at night or in the dark.

I know exactly what you are talking about..I have been experiencing this phenomenon periodically..and it's actully why I came to post just now..

I just had that experience..I went to sleep about 2.5 hours ago listening to tools 10 000 days album after eating turkey for dinner..I also had some chocolate earlier..

I woke up near the end of the cd in the pitch black dark to DMT like geometry behind my eyelids..I was actually thinking I had drank ayahuasca for a minute..I cant stress enough how detailed it was, it was colorful as well. But it was more than just visuals..

Once I started to pay attention to it it went deeper and deeper and it was like I was touring the "wiring underneath the board"...I was began having this deep revelation..suddenly realizing that this information that seemed encoded in light is what we really are..what all life is..and it was all connected.

I was sort of shown how this sea of visual data I was seeing is really all encoded information and that by procreating we pass that info on and when our physical body dies we still live on through the act of transmitting the infomation to new offspring..we all know this on a superficail level but I dont think we really thik about what it really means..I sort of began to think about how ego is nothing compared to this vast sea of data that lies underneath the surface..the ego us that we fantasize about being immortal seemed sort of a joke, like a snakes skin easily shed without much fuss at all..

It got weirder and more uncomfortable..I began to experience sort of dimensional things going on inside my mind..like I could look into this grid of data and then suddenly I would be experiencing someone else first hand..

I was a man in the amazon drinking ayahuasca..I was experienceing snapshots of his time spent there..I remember taking a photo of the plants being brewed together to take home to show my(his) son..

I was getting really wierded out but this had happened before on certain occasions..and I kept thiking about all the turkey I ate..whenever I sat up and opened my eyes everythign was normal though..except for the distinct melatonin buzz going strong throughout my whole body..I have taken melatonin many times so I can easily identify the feeling..

I can't even stress how much like ayahuasca this was..except for that when I sat up I would sort of snap out of it and just feel the melatonin..I really think I connected with some sort of non-local information-net that underlies life..and I think I experienced what people in dark rooms experience..

Finally I had to get up and turn on a light because it was getting to weird..the melatinin feelign faded quickly and I got up and ate something and come on here..

I should add that I took a caapi extract and some bufotenine this morning..but that was over 12 hours ago..and I never had anything like this happen before I began using psychedelics.

 

[Espiridion]

.
.
I too rubbed myself as a child. My eyes that is. Phosphenes!!!

Anyway, as far as hypnogogic imagery goes. It is typically around the Theta band of brainwave frequencies that one experiences these fleeting visions. It is typically passed over as we fall asleep(Delta).
The mystics and Yogis all try to attain this conciousness for extended periods. It is quite a balancing act, I assure you. I myself have made light goggles controlled by my computer to 'entrain' myself. Interesting effects there.

In this brainwave state, apparantly one always retains any information input into the brain. Learning CD's, insights, etc.

Self-hypnosis works this way. The ones who are successful achieve a suspended theta wave state long enough to absorb the "I will not smoke cigarettes" mantra for instance.


If you are experiencing this state, then use it for meta-programming. It is an opportunity for you to grow. Rid oneself of bad habits and the like.


Thanks for ramble-reading,

J
.
.

 

[corridors of my cells]

yea shifting textures on the wall, sometimes looking crosseyed, different understanding and perception for events, waking up to reality that im a creature living on a planet for a second (can be scary/weird sometimes). and so on...

yea i also learned directing my OEVs with my hands by time and its pretty relaxing to feel the flow. Funny stuff isnt it.

EDIT:
I also have this since i was a child but lately increased in intensity. But that happens rarely

Floater - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Astralking]

From experience with dealing with some one close to me with HPPD i can honestly say, it is not pretty. Girlfriend has hade it for a while now. Absolutely mental mood swings coupled with crazy depressions. Very hard to deal with and from seeing her wouldn't wish it on anyone. Although this was induced from acid not DMT.

 

[jamie]

^thats more than just HPPD then..HPPD doesnt cause depression and mood swings on it's own..that's more a mood/anxiety disorder..psychedelics can brings these things to the surface..but ultimatily they are probabily there anyway under the surface..just takes something to really bring them out.

Honestly mood swings are closely realted to diet..I have been there..she should get bkood tests for food allergies if she has not already..what you said alligns perfectly with food sensitivities.

 

[imPsimon]

One session of such playing around abruptly produced a vivid, photographically realistic scene, as if dreaming. SWIM was so startled by this (since he was still completely awake) that the scene faded away almost immediately. He had not done DMT or any other psychoactive drugs for a long time when this happened.

I also get those from time to time=)...usually lasts only for maybe 2-3 seconds.
A couple of datura stramonium seeds before sleep brings them on more frequently, lasts a little longer
and also makes my dreams more lucid.

It's said that datura inoxia also will be good for dreaming but I haven't noticed.
Will have to try another batch of seeds.

!!!Consuming to many datura seeds may result in delirium and death. search forum for information before consuming!!!

 

[DoingKermit]

I used to put pressure on my closed eyes as a child before going to sleep and loved how colors and shapes formed. I seem to get similar effects these days without having to rub my eyes... it just happens usually when i'm trying to fall asleep (looks like blobby waves of color). I think psychedelics helped.

Peas

 

[DOS]

Yes, this is how I see it, too. I actually now find it very easy to induce HPPD symptoms like heightened awareness of snow in the visual field, floaters, false motion etc., whenever I am in a meditative state and attentive to what my brain is doing.

One thing I forgot to mention is mechanical stimulation of the retina, which now occasionally brings on faint but distinctly DMT-like mandalas, membranes, and witchy script, as opposed to the standard fare of random phosphenes and visual noise. When SWIM first encountered DMT in a huasca mixture, he could not get any CEVs and remained almost completely sober until accidentally rubbing his eyes, which brought on extremely vivid and coherent CEVs immediately. I recommend this as an experiment with low to moderate doses if you find the visual detail lacking. It seems that stimulating the retina also stimulates the visual cortex in a very direct and effective way.

As a result of DMT use I now see thick visual snow 24/7 which is white in broad daylight, blue in low light conditions, and violet in the dark. I'm half-expecting myself to go blind or something but I stay positive in hope that these changes are purely beneficiary in some way. I also see way too many floaters which is distracting. When I close my eyes I see pulsating violet snow, and when I press my eyes I'm treated to what I've mentioned in other posts as my psychedelic screen saver. It's pretty much like those psychedelic screen savers you can watch morph and change while listening to music. I'm glad I'm not the only one here who is experiencing these visual phenomena.

 

[burnt]

I'm starting to notice a trend that dmt users have higher incidence of HPPD then just your average acid user etc. Should we make a poll or something and try to get some numbers going?

 

[endlessness]

how do you guys know its from DMT and not from the other number of substances you consumed in life?


and remember, its only hppD if you are bothered by it, D = DISORDER...

I see a lot of self diagnosis in general, I dont see the point classifying it as such.. Are you bothered by it? Ok then go try to treat it, stop using psychedelics, go to a doctor.. Are you not bothered? Then please dont do the disservice of calling it HPPD, it only adds 'noise' to the system IMO.. we all have perceptual ilusions and effects of all kinds, as ron well said, whether one has taken psychedelics or not

 

[Infundibulum]

how do you guys know its from DMT and not from the other number of substances you consumed in life?


and remember, its only hppD if you are bothered by it, D = DISORDER...

I see a lot of self diagnosis in general, I dont see the point classifying it as such.. Are you bothered by it? Ok then go try to treat it, stop using psychedelics, go to a doctor.. Are you not bothered? Then please dont do the disservice of calling it HPPD, it only adds 'noise' to the system IMO.. we all have perceptual ilusions and effects of all kinds, as ron well said, whether one has taken psychedelics or not

Yup - health is defined as the physical and mental well-being. I wouldn't be bothered randomly seeing Bugs Bunny on the wall (as long as he does not expose his genitals that is!)

 

[Observant]

See anything ?

 

[soulfood]

all sorts

 

[ismokecrystals]

Yeah same... I saw people morphing, weird shapes and stuff. Is that hypnognia? I find that I am more able to bring about visuals ever since i began using THH