Look, i need some serious guidance

[970Codfert]

When you are ready, you shouldn't need to consult a group of strangers to know.

 

[BananaForeskin]

In an ayahuasca documentary on YouTube, (I believe it was "The Snake and I"), they mentioned one instance where a young teen (16?) was given ayahuasca in Santo Daime in order to help him stay on a good path.

I don't necessarily think that no entheogenic experiences should be had at an early age... just when it happens, it should be under the strict supervision of a knowledgeable adult. I know that when I was 15 wouldn't have been able to be easily dissuaded from doing something which had grabbed me as strongly as you say exploring the upper realms of consciousness has grabbed you.

Depending on where you are, you might be able to find someone to help you explore these things. Check and see if you can find a local ayahuasquero, or failing that perhaps talk to some members of the Native American Church. I have no idea where you are... but you may be able to find adults who can help you along. I live in a small town in northwestern America and even we have an ayahuasquero (one I haven't talked to, ironically- I discovered aya independently of his existence).

 

[elbowcups]

I don't think you should even be smoking weed till after you hit 18, let alone DMT! I've been told that weed can do some sketchy things to a young, developing and maturing brain/mind...

 

[McShaka]

When I was 17, I started to experiment with low doses of magic mushrooms. My first high dose of cubensis was when I reached the age of 19 and repeated this once a year. I've been reading about DMT from when I was 28. Now I'm 34. I took my first hit of DMT 10 months ago.

I could not have handled this entheogen on my own when I was 15. One advice. If you're determined to experience it in the near future, please contact a local medicine man (Native American), or when you are in Europe a local Nature Healer for guidance and knowledge. Do not enter this state of mind unguided.

Kind Regards

 

[d*l*b]

I think the whole weed / young mind thing is overblown. Weed can be bad for some at any age, as can any other mind-altering substance.

 

[corpus callosum]

d*l*b

I think there is fairly solid evidence that the use of cannabis at a young age ie before the age of 18, has been shown to produce some cognitive impairment when put next to those who start using cannabis aged over 18 and the most identifiable deficit seems to be in a measure called the verbal IQ.

undertow777- I apologise to you for making you sigh in response to my reply to you but the rules of the Nexus, if followed by all, benefit all members.In response to your query you have had many excellent and wise replies and I think you should wait until being at least 18 to not impair your developing brain in any way.After all, it has to last you a life-time.

See you here 3 or so years down the line:wink:

 

[MelCat]

Here's how my substance experience went :

Substance : Age

Gas : 12
Weed : 13
Crank : 14
Psilocybin : 15
Opium: 17
LSD : 18
Ketamine : 19
MDMA : 20
Mescaline : 25
DMT : 29

I turn 30 on Tuesday so I'll be doing ayahuasca then.

I plan on Iboga in the very near future as well.

Keep in mind that the only substances I do on a regular basis are weed and DMT.

My advise to OP is - Do what feels right but try to use some not-so-common sense and some discretion.

One thing about entheogens from what I've found, is they find YOU when YOU are ready and not a moment sooner.

 

[corpus callosum]

Happy birthday for Tuesday, melodic!!:d :d

 

[SnozzleBerry]

I think there is fairly solid evidence that the use of cannabis at a young age ie before the age of 18, has been shown to produce some cognitive impairment when put next to those who start using cannabis aged over 18 and the most identifiable deficit seems to be in a measure called the verbal IQ.

*Sigh* Sources...please?

I began smoking weed at the age of 15 (granted, not very frequently), got 800's on both the SAT Reading and Writing components and consider my vocabulary and control of the English language to be in the top percentile of English speakers (if that sounds arrogant I don't mean it to be, I am merely presenting a personal example that is contrary to the claim you have made). I am aware that one person is not a case study, but neither is the belief that "fairly solid evidence" exists.

 

[d*l*b]

*Sigh* Sources...please?

I am also slightly dubious about the research done on this. I have found 2 studies, the one that specifically looks at VIQ is:

Early-onset cannabis use and cognitive deficits: what is the nature of the association?

Early-onset cannabis use and cognitive deficits: what is the nature of the association? - PubMed

Early-onset cannabis users exhibit poorer cognitive performance than late-onset users or control subjects, especially in VIQ, but the cause of this difference cannot be determined from our data. The difference may reflect (1). innate differences between groups in cognitive ability, antedating...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

It seems that the results of this study are inconclusive, from the abstract:

RESULTS: The 69 early-onset users (who began smoking before age 17) differed significantly from both the 53 late-onset users (who began smoking at age 17 or later) and from the 87 controls on several measures, most notably verbal IQ (VIQ). Few differences were found between late-onset users and controls on the test battery. However, when we adjusted for VIQ, virtually all differences between early-onset users and controls on test measures ceased to be significant. CONCLUSIONS: Early-onset cannabis users exhibit poorer cognitive performance than late-onset users or control subjects, especially in VIQ, but the cause of this difference cannot be determined from our data. The difference may reflect (1). innate differences between groups in cognitive ability, antedating first cannabis use; (2). an actual neurotoxic effect of cannabis on the developing brain; or (3). poorer learning of conventional cognitive skills by young cannabis users who have eschewed academics and diverged from the mainstream culture.

Also there is:

Specific attentional dysfunction in adults following early start of cannabis use.

Specific attentional dysfunction in adults following early start of cannabis use - PubMed

These data suggest that beginning cannabis use during early adolescence may lead to enduring effects on specific attentional functions in adulthood. Apparently, vulnerable periods during brain development exist that are subject to persistent alterations by interfering exogenous cannabinoids.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I started smoking at 11 and was smoking heavily from 13 until now (I’m 32) and really don’t see the differences in ability in either me or those of my friends who were doing the same. In fact most of us have actually done very well in education, function well as adults and normal members of society, as well as holding down jobs that require above-average cognitive function.

 

[corpus callosum]

SnozzleBerry- I hear what you say and I don't regard you or your last post as arrogant.

I agree, further studies need to be done to establish for sure if there are persisting deficits but it seems to be the case that the effects of cannabis are not identical when looking at an adult brain vs one which is still in the process of developing.

Have a look at this link; I'm keen to hear your thoughts on this.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/081014111156.htm

PS-apologies to the OP for the direction this thread has taken.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

Have a look at this link; I'm keen to hear your thoughts on this.

http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2008/10/081014111156.htm

Well, after looking at the article, I decided to look up the study and began searching by the title given in the article. It turns out that title is not the title of anything other than the presentation. So, I have begun to look through Science Direct, PubMed, and ISI, for whatever actual peer-reviewed research/paper she used as the basis for the aforementioned presentation. However, it appears as though the databases have no peer-reviewed work of hers dealing with this subject (and not having confounding factors such as other substance use) on or before 10/13/2008. I'm not really sure what to make of this, especially because when I looked up her faculty page at the University of Cincinnati, there is only one paper that deals with marijuana use and no other variables (her other papers deal with polysubstance abusers or marijuana and alcohol). That paper is titled "Depressive symptoms in adolescents: Associations with white matter volume and marijuana use" and I am currently attempting to find a copy of it and will let you know what I find and think of it.

 

[SnozzleBerry]

Here's the article for all those interested. I have a ton of stuff to set up in my solarium today (and I'm hopefully gonna finish up my acid vs non-acid Ayahuasca comparison), so I don't know when I'll get around to reading this, but just at a glance, it doesn't seem to be an overly compelling case.

In general, MJ-users reported
marginally higher scores on the BDI [MJ-users
4.6 ± 7.0, range 0–20; controls 1.3 ± 2.0, range 0–6;
F(1,31) ¼ 3.4, p ¼ .08] and significantly greater
scores on the HAM-D [MJ-users 4.0 ± 5.9, range 0–
21; controls 1.0 ± 2.0, range 0–8; F(1,31) ¼ 4.2, p ¼
.05]. Compared to published norms (Beck et al.,
1988; Bennet et al., 1997), 0% of controls and 19% of
MJ-users were clinically elevated (>13) on the BDI.
On the HAM-D, 6% of controls and 13% of MJ-users
evidenced mild symptoms (scores 7–17) and 6% of
MJ-users reported moderate (>18 ) depressive
symptoms (Nixon et al., 2001).
Bivariate relationships
Table 1 shows correlations between the demographic
variables, brain volumes, and depressive measures
for each group. Effect sizes (Cohen, 1988 ) reflecting
the magnitude of the difference between correlation
coefficients (with equal sample sizes) revealed that
the correlations between white matter volume and
BDI scores (q ¼ .89, large effect size) and HAM-D
scores (q ¼ .22, small effect size) were stronger
among the MJ-users compared to controls. All other
effect sizes were not significant (q < .10).

Also, studies on pregnant women have shown that smoked cannabis does not have a negative impact on the fetus. While this may or may not be relevant to our discussion thus far, I think it's significant in that it's one more piece of evidence as to cannabis being relatively benign, chemically.

 

[wade]

babies whose mamas smoked the herb are so much more calm and centered than the average baby. just an observation.

 

[corpus callosum]

Sorry for resurrecting an old thread, but this info is relevant:

Young cannabis smokers run risk of lower IQ, report claims

Young people who smoke cannabis run the risk of a significant and irreversible reduction in their IQ, according to one of the largest studies ever carried out.

www.bbc.co.uk

 

[Jarl Von Hoother]

Dear Undertow,

Look these things don't have to wait, but first. When I was your age I constantly read about well LSD. Every day and night I looked it up on some website or another. I was so fascinated by the possibility of being able to see things from different view points. I imagined how different it would make everything seem, look, sound. I started to go even a little crazy with the smallest implications of every possible hallucination I could have. I asked friends to get it for me abd when that failed. After looking through my father's cd drawer I found Pink Floyd's Dark side of the moon. I closed the blinds, put the cd in my CD player I earned from boy scout popcorn selling and closed my eyes. Listening I realised that their music was mixing together every thing I thought was impossible, The music and the lyrics like tablets made of gold inscribed by GODs themselves placed into my cd tray-

"breath, breath in the air... run, rabbit run, dig that hole, forget the sun, when in class the work is done, runs you down it's time to di another one lomg you live and high you fly, but only if you ride the tide..."

That was all the need of changing my perspective for a good year of marijuana, and every albu, of there's I could afford, but usually in combination.

My Answer to your riddle is. you're not too sure what you search for, but for now Undertow777 who ever you are listen with your ears first. We seek with our eyes for what is already heard with our ears. so open up your third ear first before your third eye.
and really pay close attention to what your heart feels. Do this and you'll not only love psychdelics but they will complement your attitude...

I suggest you start with your rock and roll now, aovid metal at all costs. What undertow stands for tools second album, it's too tragic in my opinion for joy's open door enter than go with 'The Doors' and pay attention to Morrison's poetry, and stick around the classics especially w/ floyd in mind, than take wing in flight toward, Ravi Shankar hindi sitar and listen to it as if it were like a voice, famous poet Jack Keroac thought Jazz was a sea of voices all in one big calamity, poets read poetry and you'll get WAY more out of any experience as poetry is that door to another world, to one of sensations like the seasons, laying in feild of long grass in the sun. and maybe after few yeas of complete meditation only than would I recommend psychedelics to understand __________?

besides what do you want out of it all in the end, anyway? but don't back down just yet, Undertow and listen! ...you'll get my meaning.

 

[Purges]

Just under 1 more year until he can post again! :lol: I hope he does, and I hope in the mean time he has read Vovin's "Why you should NOT take DMT" thread... I was 24/25 by the time |I felt ready to try DMT, and even then it has shaken me to my very core on a few occasions. Even after being familiar with deep states. Anyhow, I wish him the best of luck.

(and for what it's worth, I started smoking weed at 15, which didn't effect my school work much. It was repeated heavy dosing of MDMA from age 17+ that really effected my progress)