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LSA truly psychedelic? or just sedative?

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Jellyfox

Jellyfox

were off to see the jelly fox, he'll give us what
Recently I have noticed that LSA has been popping into a lot of peoples mind, both here on the nexus and in my circle of friends. So the bag of seeds i have in my drawer were calling to me for more experimentation.

A little background, I have done LSA twice b4, both times from HWBR that I know are strong seeds. Both times were just about exactly the same intensity of effects.

First time was a CWE with 10 seeds and came on in about an hour and progressed, I had a very strong LSD like body feeling and my pupils were HUGE but i didn't receive any visuals whatsoever. slight vasoconstriction but nothing too bad.

Second was a CWE with 15 seeds and like i said just around the same intensity of effects.

After those 2 times I basically gave up on obtaining an actual "trip" from the seeds.

So now much more recently, after reading a lot of positive reports on HWBR, i decided to put a lot of energy into the lsa and fast and take it in a forest. Performed a CWE with 19 seeds and let it sit for a little more than a day. I woke up and drank the mixture and headed to the forest. Now heres were it gets interesting, I noticed a much stronger body feel and i'm guessing my pupils were GIANT (no mirrors out in woods). But also I was noticing Very slight distortions and warps in the trees like it was JUST ALMOST breaking the veil into a full on trip. This was in the first hour so I prayed and hoped that in the next hour it would keep going up.

Sadly it stayed exactly at that point were I felt that I was SO CLOSE to crossing into a pleasant trip full of interesting hallucinations. I still have faith in the seeds and want to experience what all they truly have to give so I hope someone who's good friends with LSA can answer some of these questions.

1. Should i try just taking the crushed seeds? - the CWE?

2. Should i try a simple alcohol extraction? (ive been told no cuz Water is more polar than alc?)

3. Ive read that HWBR are supposed to have the strongest % of LSA, but noticed than when MKULTRA was studying it they used Rivea Cymbrosa. Should i seek out the experience in Rivea Cymbrosa or Ipomoea tricolor?

4. Is LSA actually psychedelic or are effects attributed to them placebo from eager beavers?

(As the dominant alkaloid in the psychedelic seeds of Turbina corymbosa (ololiuhqui), Argyreia nervosa (Hawaiian baby woodrose) and Ipomoea tricolor (morning glories, tlitliltzin), it is often stated that ergine and/or isoergine (its epimer) is responsible for the psychedelic activity. However, this theory is debatable, as anecdotal reports suggest that the effects of synthetic LSA and iso-LSA are only slightly psychedelic)

5. is it safe to consume a CWE of 40-50 HWBR seeds? ( most tell me it is not, but still curious if anyones done it)

Honestly I have received more pleasant and trippy effects from Amanita Muscaria which isn't really hallucinogenic at all, and i was happy at that because I read many reports saying Amanitas don't have any psychedelic effects. So yeah, I feel that i was So close to breaking through into an awesome psychedlic expirience with the HWBR seeds, but it never did.

Any advice or experiences are appreciated.
 
for me it was superior to LSD..and very very visionary, though I smoked cannabis 24/7 back then so that was def involved in my LSA journey. Those were apparently fresher seeds from a vendor..other seeds from home depot did not do much at all..HBWR kinda worked..never tried rivea yet..

Morning glories are superior to HBWR IME..Moring glories(ipomea tricolor/violacea) and rivea corymbosa are the ones that are used traditionally in mexico. HBWR are used traditionally in india in low doses for ayurvedic medicine..I have heard some claim that they were also used in higher doses as a soma plant..but I dont know how well supported that idea is..but in general HBWR are thought to have more side effects.

Also..if you have the Ghana strain of HBWR seeds than that might be a reason for your experiences..they are known to be far weaker than the stuff that has naturalized itself in hawaii. You want hawaiian seed.
 
I really liked r. corymbosa. HBWR had alot more side affects than it, never had morning glories.

I find them definitely psychedelic. Though i don't like to body load with hbwr at doses required for psychadelia. And it has its own "flavour" (alkaoid content) compared to the other two main lysergamine alkaloid containing seeds, r. corymbosa, and morning glories. I guess i like the different affects more, and the reduced side affects that r. corymbosa offers compared to hbwr.

Though, i did do a decent extraction on some hbwr on once though, not acid base, but it gave a fairly pure yellowish residue that was highly active. IIRC, i washed it with heptane, extracted with iso, evaporated, dissolved in minimal distilled water and did another heptane was on that water like a defatting. Decant off the heptane, and evap the water.

The body load associated with hbwr was greatly reduced by extraction, along with the yield/potency though.

I'd take lsd over hbwr or rc seeds, but i enjoy all of them, they have their utility and place. lsd is easier, perhaps, whereas like most of the natural psychs, naturally produced lysergic acid amide alkaloids are not. But they can offer depth not achievable with synthetics.

Though i don't have much experience with lsd (only dosed a few times in my life), compared to alot more experimentation with mescaline, aya, dmt, etc, etc.
 
If you're using HBWR, make sure you're storing them correctly. LSAs are extremely unstable and breakdown much faster even then LSD.

I had a fantastic, very psychedelic trip on HBWR, and immediately went about extoling the virtues to my friends. Unfortunately, I also left them on my windowsill, and when my friends finally were ready to try them, they had gone bad. Everyone else just got sick.

So, I can vouch for LSA being a fantastic psychedelic, but I'm also plenty aware that it's kind of an ephemeral one.
 
Well, it's impossible for me to say if it's LSA or iso-LSA causing the effects, having never sampled them, but I believe Hoffman when he says his LSA was just a sedative.

It's a very hit-and-miss enterprise, trying to trip on these seeds, unless one cultivates the plant - probably due to instability of whatever the active(s) may be like others said. But it can be done!

I've had some good times on MGS, RC seed, and HBWR. around 600 MG seeds, 100 R. corymbosa, and 20 HBWR are my max doses, with HBWR being my most used bindweed. The effects you describe, OP, are pretty much accurate. It doesn't ever really bloom into a visual experience, only hints at visuals and "enhances" things. I like it for walks in the sunshine, hikes and lake-outings. There are some CEV's, usually they have to be coaxed out by laying in the dark, or cannabis, or a RIMA if you're feeling adventurous; but I find it to be really a meditation enhancer... it gives the psychedelic state-of-mind without pushy visuals, you could call it the "zen" psychedelic. Extemely simple yet profound.

These plants are also very keen on synergies. I find that cannabis at least doubles my peak effects intensity. Strangely I also found alcohol to positively effect the trip. In fact the only truly visual trip with these started by me drinking a white russian or two and then ingesting 6 good-quality HBWR seeds. Once it hit, I was given a huge hit of good hashish from a fancy percolator and then the lights were turned off. I began having CEV's of an electric blue mandelbrot-setish fractal similar to Nathanial.Dread's avatar in the above post. Very distinct, very blue, very electric, very cool. I don't know if the white russian did it, but I've mixed pot and these seeds many times without that vivid effect.

I always feel like I'm floating down a slow-moving river....
 
thanks for the replies! I'm quite sure the seeds I got are the legit Hawaiian strain (they are dark brown) but I didn't buy them in Hawaii so I can only trust that they were the strain they were sold as. Also they aren't very old and were stored properly.

And i smoke a lot of medical cannabis and was during all of my LSA trips, but still it didn't reach what I wanted it to be.

all my experiences with HWBR so far have not even come close to the smallest dose of psilocybin or L. I was just so surprised when I saw how big my pupils were but not experiencing any hallucinations.

From what you guys are telling me is, They can compare to L or Psilo but I need to make sure they're fresh and Morning glorys or rivea instead of HWBR. Would any of you who had a good trip on LSA post your methods of ingestion?
 
I think there are other things in HBWR that can cause big pupils. I've had similar experiences as you with barely tripping and huge pupils.

I'll be giving my corymbosa seeds a try before too long. I hope they're nicer than the woodrose! Woodrose makes me anxious and sleepy.

Any word on harmalas mixing with these seeds?
 
HOLY MOLY! thank you mr peabody! you reminded me I can't believe I forgot to mention that during my most recent HWBR "trip" I did smoke a bowl of rue about 40 minutes after ingesting the CWE.

Maybe that's what made me come so close to piercing the veil of LSA?
 
LSA is most definitly psychedelic. The thing is that much of the experience from raw HBWR seeds is likely not from LSA itself, but also from many of the other alkaloids in the seeds.

Ergoline alkaloidal constituents of hawaiian baby wood rose, argyreia nervosa:
Chemical analysis showed that the seeds of Argyreia nervosa contain the highest percentage of indole alkaloid constituents (0.5-0.9%) of the genera of the Convolvulaceae thus far studied. A total of 19 indole alkaloids were identified by thin-layer and paper chromatographic procedures. Of these, lysergene, festu-clavine, setoclavine, isosetoclavine, agroclavine, elymoclavine, ergine, and isoergine were isolated by column chromatographic procedures and characterized by TLC and IR analyses. Penni-clavine, chanoclavine-I, chanoclavine-II, ergometrine, ergometrinine, lysergic acid α-hydroxyethylamide, isolysergol, racemic chanoclavine-II, molliclavine, lysergol, and isolysergic acid α-hydroxyethylamide were identified by TLC only. Of these, lysergene, setoclavine, isosetoclavine, chanoclavine-II, racemic chano-clavine-II, isolysergol, and molliclavine were identified for the first time in species of the Convolvulaceae. Ergine (0.136%) and isoergine (0.188%) were found in the highest concentration. In addition, 11 unidentified indole alkaloids were detected, these being found in very low concentration. Although the pericarp showed the same alkaloid pattern as the seeds, the concentration was much lower (0.0015%). No alkaloids could be delected in the vegetative tissues of nonflowering specimens.


Purified LSA extracts of HBWR are another story. SWIM has consumed what he estimates to be about 50-60 seeds of purified extract and had an extremely psychedelic experience. I also had some alcohol that night. Here is an early write-up of it:

Kash said:
Im actually pretty suprised LSA doesnt get more attention as it is a truely great substance. I can actually admitt I like it evenly with LSD. All you hear about is people eating Hawaiian Baby Woodrose Seeds or Morning glories or sometimes Ololiuhqui. Some people even make crude alcohol extractions. I made a purified extract, with staggering results.

My first experience with it was a couple weeks ago. I had dug out some old HBWR seeds bought six months ago and thought 'I wonder what I could do with these?'. So, I got to work.

Procedure:
Began by blending 99 HBWR seeds into a powder. This was then defatted with 3 hr sessions of stirred naptha, 3 times. After allowing the powder to dry fully, it was extracted with 4 hr sessions of sirred IPA, 4 times. The resulting liquid was yellow. This IPA extract of about 900ml was then distilled to 100ml and evaporated. There was a brown powdery residue. This was then dissolved in ammonia/H20 which turned bright yellow. To this an equivalent amount of toluen was added and stirred for about 30 min. Turned strangely blue with some solids forming. This was filtered and then the water and organic layers were seperated. Discarded water and evapped organic. Yelloy sticky residue was formed of freebase LSA.
-After my experience with this substance, I then converted it into its salt form for storage. Although it is traditionally made a tartrate salt, I noticed tartrate and fumarate are quite similar in sturcture, which I DID have on hand. Mixed with acetone, mixed with a fumaric acid/acetone soln, evaporated to give light yellow/tan LSA fumarate 300mg. Guessing the freebase dose I took was equivalent to about 150-200mg LSA fumarate. (semi impure)

Experience:
At this point I was alittle reckless because it really didnt look like all that much in the evap dish. I was basically like 'what the hel' and smirred an unknown amount on my finger and sucked on it a good 3 times. It actually tasted very bitter and 'amidey' the best way to describe it. I then waited like an hour and began seeing very defined tracers everywhere. At this point I wouldve probably been good for the night but...

I had been doing some reading on 'Postscriptum: The Secret of the Eleusinian Mysteries Revealed by Jonathan Ott' and the theoretical "LSH" or natural LSD when mixing peppermint oil + LSA + ethanol... so I scraped up another good amount and dissolved most of it in 95% ethanol + peppermint extract. It didnt really seem very soluble but I downed it anyway.

After that the experience very slowly came on and 2 hrs in I decided to lay down. The sensation of LSA is actually pretty relaxed, I wouldnt call it sedating, but definitly the feeling of drunkeness. The visuals gradually became stronger and stronger but not overwhelming like other drugs. They form very fragmented geometric patterns in the thousands. There was also an overwhelming sense of euphoria as I layed there in bed still coming up. When I closed my eyes I would see brilliant images that seemed like dreams. I could travel to far off places and see amazing images and landscapes.

The next 3-6 hrs were complete and utter chaos, at times I felt uneasy, but at no point did I feel overwhelmed. It felt like I could perceive the entire universe, like I somehow felt connected to it all. I actually felt like I came to some conclusion which I can no longer percieve, that time is somehow infinitly dimensionally expanding, and not simply continuing on in a linear fashion. It also seemed like I was part of a continuosly flowing life force, a milky way of energy, that cannot be extinguished, and that we are all part of that same force, except once we are born into our human forms, we are divided into isolated but interacting worlds of conciousness, almost like putting an eggshell ontop of a portion of the continual flow of force. I actually felt completely disconnected from my body and couldnt feel my legs. Opening my eyes revealed amazing symbols and images scattered throughout the room. The only way I kept myself at ease was knowing that I would eventually return to reality. At about 8am, 6-7 hrs after ingestion, I finally started coming down. I then drifted plesantly into a deep and dreamless sleep.

This was easily one of the most intense experiences I have ever taken, easily rivaling LSD, and only comparing to my most powerful LSD experience. This stuff is no joke I found out and should definitly get more attention.
Click to expand...
Pure LSA Extraction - Welcome discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus
 
glad you made your way to this thread Kash, as you seem to be one of LSA's best friends :).

So you definitely have achieved profound effects through a thorough extract of the seeds. I must ask have you gotten anywhere near that level on simplified extracts or plain seeds?

also if you would be so kind to PM me or post up a more in depth tek for extracting the seeds? I know it's kind of asking a lot it's just that I'm uneducated in extractions and extraction terms etc and would hate to end up with something toxic. Or maybe you have a link to what i'm looking for?

any help appreciated. I want to be able to hold those seeds in high regard like you, unlock their potential and legitimately compare LSA to LSD.
 
Nice, interesting thread.

I have played with the various LSA containing seeds myself for decades. I first did morning glories back in the 70's inspired by the Pink Floyd song "Alan's Psychedelic Breakfast" (pt.3 is called Morning Glory), as well as a general interest in the stuff going around back then.

It was easy to find vines growing around then, as it is now, and collecting seeds was a cinch... though the ones in garden stores are often coated with some crap. I lost interest to a degree because the LSD around was so good and so cheap.

At any rate I have had some very successful trips with HBWR, morning glory and ololiqui... and also some meh experiences as well. It can be somewhat hit or miss. I don't know if it is possible to get that full on LSD effect from seeds alone, but it can get quite visual and worthy. I don't have too much stomach issues, so I can even just clean the seeds well and chomp them pure, I would often just keep eating them during the trip until I began to get where I wanted to be.

Of course, the only time I got really super satisfactory, massively visual trips from these LSA seeds, was when combined with syrian rue. I had been wary of the combo, not wanting to accidentally push the vasoconstriction into a dangerous place or something dumb... and there was precious little info on the combo at the time. But, I went slowly and pressed on until I achieved some remarkable HBWR-huasca type states that still make me smile when I think on them. That is worthy indeed.

Be careful, though. I don't know if these things contain alkaloids that would interact poorly with RIMAs... definitely clean them well and remove any outer skins or dusty parts.

That is my 2c on the subject. Hope it helps.
HF
 
thank for all the replies. And so glad to see another Early era floyd fan in here! I do hope you love Syd Barrett as much as I do Hyperspace Fool :)
 
Jellyfox said:
thank for all the replies. And so glad to see another Early era floyd fan in here! I do hope you love Syd Barrett as much as I do Hyperspace Fool :)
Click to expand...

Hard not to love ol' Syd (RIP). I even have all his solo material.

Loved your Jugband Blues reference... 8)
 
yes his solo work is some of the best :) Octopus and Baby lemonade are great tunes.
 
Peoples regarding of I. tricolor and I. purpurea as interchangeable may be a significant source of confusion, failure, and revulsion IMO.
In ages past when I worked with genus Ipomoea I observed that not only were I. purpurea weak to inactive but even when grown organically and untreated they often possessed a horrific acrid flavor in comparison to I. tricolor. The best way I can describe a heafty dose of I. purpurea 'Crimson Rambler' water extract is as fermented vomit mixed with battery acid and made to be the consistency of mucous. :sick: That didnt stop me from repeatedly trying :lol:
Their relative low or in-activity can be found quantified in published papers (*)

Ipomoea parasitica and I. orizabensis are two I've never seen worked with, and never been able to source viable seed for. They have been stated to possess significantly higher ergoline alkaloid concentrations than I. tricolor (0.160, 0.163, and 0.070-0.117% ergolines on fresh weight basis, respectively) but are of unknown human toxicity. If anyone has ever seen them used I would love to know :)

* New sources of ergoline alkaloids within the genus Ipomoea (Biochemical Systematics and Ecology Volume 21, Issue 4, June 1993, Pages 455–461)
 
interesting, i do suppose i will continue my research with Morning glory's next time as it seems that they are favored over HWBR.
 
LSA is very special to me, its my visionary ally which brings me back to my essence of when I was a child. Untainted by the world and the impressions that my parents have superimposed onto me, single layered and ready to receive information and knowledge. I have had profound visions during my LSA journeys and I have filled my bathroom up entirely with balloons and squished myself in between them like a little kid whilst giggling with contagious laughter until my tummy hurt.

My favourite recipe for LSA is a cold water extraction technique using Morning Glories. (Heavenly Blue Morning Glories)

First you ground up the morning glory seeds up in a grinder (A pepper grinder or coffee grinder works perfectly) but try and do it in as little light as possible as the light breaks down the effective components. Then empty some tea bags and place all your grounded up seeds into the tea bags. Its always nice to sow up the tea bags so that all the seeds stay securely inside. Than place the tea bags in some very cold water in a tea or coffee cup to soak over night in the fridge.

(Please remember the longer you leave the tea bags to soak the better.)

Its also a good idea to squeeze some lemon into your cold water extraction as it adds to the flavor and vitamin C also helps with absorption. For an LSH experience simply add some mustard with your extraction to convert the LSA to LSH. I personally much prefer the LSA experience but the LSH experience is well worth trying at least once it is quite a bit different from an LSA experience. (With the cold water extraction tech their is very little nausea which really helps as nausea is always very distracting during a journey.) Dosage varies greatly between each person with the amount of seeds I usually take about 150 - 180 seeds ground up very finely.


Much Peace and Kindness
 
Aegle said:
LSA is very special to me, its my visionary ally which brings me back to my essence of when I was a child. Untainted by the world and the impressions that my parents have superimposed onto me, single layered and ready to receive information and knowledge. I have had profound visions during my LSA journeys and I have filled my bathroom up entirely with balloons and squished myself in between them like a little kid whilst giggling with contagious laughter until my tummy hurt.

My favourite recipe for LSA is a cold water extraction technique using Morning Glories. (Heavenly Blue Morning Glories)

First you ground up the morning glory seeds up in a grinder (A pepper grinder or coffee grinder works perfectly) but try and do it in as little light as possible as the light breaks down the effective components. Then empty some tea bags and place all your grounded up seeds into the tea bags. Its always nice to sow up the tea bags so that all the seeds stay securely inside. Than place the tea bags in some very cold water in a tea or coffee cup to soak over night in the fridge.

(Please remember the longer you leave the tea bags to soak the better.)

Its also a good idea to squeeze some lemon into your cold water extraction as it adds to the flavor and vitamin C also helps with absorption. For an LSH experience simply add some mustard with your extraction to convert the LSA to LSH. I personally much prefer the LSA experience but the LSH experience is well worth trying at least once it is quite a bit different from an LSA experience. (With the cold water extraction tech their is very little nausea which really helps as nausea is always very distracting during a journey.) Dosage varies greatly between each person with the amount of seeds I usually take about 150 - 180 seeds ground up very finely.


Much Peace and Kindness
Click to expand...

Mustard? I've heard Peppermint tea/oil/extract turns it into LSH due to the Aldehydes or whatever, but MUSTARD? WTF? Where did you figure this out and why did you try this! LOL SOunds like it would make me vomit.
 
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