LSD 10 Strip

[endlessness]

People shouldn't do it.

its just not up to you, or anybody, to decide what people should or should not do. Inform impartially, raise consciousness, voice your opinion as an opinion and not as a fact, and let people decide for themselves. High doses of many substances can be carefully and safely taken with benefits, or in other circumstances can also be dangerous and stupid. Generalizing here doesnt help in anything.

The OP was talking about 10 strip. SWIM has taken that amount and had a great trip. Other people have had bad experiences.. Even the same SWIM in a different occasion might have had a bad experience and other people who had bad experience might have had a good one with other set and setting. For other people taking even half a dose might be dangerous, maybe not physically but mentally. It all depends, nobody knows, cases have to be looked at individually.

 

[polytrip]

I'm discovering that i'm quite passionate about LSD two.
It may be hard to establish exactlly where the saturation-point is, because it's a curve and not realy a sharp point. But i think most of us agree that there is such a point.

Many people have disrecommended taking LSD in the amounts above the saturation point. If you necessarily want to do it, it's your own decission anyway.
I would rather take 2 to 4 blotters than 10, unless i would know their strength and they would happen to be realy weak (like most of those famous strawberry-picture blotters).
Simply because for most people taking more is not nice.

If you want to get a very intense LSD-experience; stick to 2 to 4 blotters and combine them with strongly synergistic compounds.

Taking extreme amounts, certainly when you're at some party is not a good idea: you won't be able to communicate properly.

 

[endlessness]

That is a reasonable and level-headed way of putting it, polytrip!

Taking too much in a party can be a very bad thing, specially if its indoors, if you have to be reasonably straight and interact with people, if one cannot run away from music (which might be incredibly bad in the peak of the trip, imagine that!) and so on.. If its a festival where there is nice outdoors where one can escape to, there is some friend to watch over you and general set and setting is ok, it could work (not necessarily though). In any case, maybe you are correct most people dont like too high lsd doses, though some people absolutely love it..

Anyways, polytrip, to change the subject a bit (if nobody minds the off topic).. Do you mind expanding more on which synergistic compounds you consider good with lsd?

SWIM has only tried smoking spice with it, and he felt it definitely did NOT match.. It just made some extra pretty colours, but he didnt at all get 'transported' as he does usually with spice. He feels spice works much better with mushrooms. The other thing is, of course, smoking/vaporizing weed during an acid trip, which doesnt really change the trip for SWIM in any marking way, but it just tastes/feels veeeery delicious.

Mushrooms and lsd sounds interesting, maybe SWIM should try it sometime.. what else?

 

[wake and bacon]

passionflower can increase the strength of a trip to beyond the normal maximal level, WITHOUT all the side-effects that occur at higher doses. It makes the visuals a little more colourfull, more 3dimensional and they become more overwhelming; they completely encompass you. You get more body-high effects like a sometimes mild sensation of floating and you'l feel more relaxed and peacefull. It also lasts longer. Up to 18 hours.
This seems to be the best way to get extreme LSD experiences.

Oral cannabis is VERY synergistic; it seems as if the side effects of both cancel eachother our; you don't get the speedyness of LSD that much and you don't get the fuzzyness of cannabis. It's extremely euphoric, you only need to take enough cannabis since the LSD tends to overrule the cannabis at low doses. You can get the same effects that you would normally have at the saturation-point with half the amount of acid, AND you'l get more euphoria.

Datura is very good as well, but only safe in low doses. It makes the LSD warmer and the visuals more vivid and alive and it may give you strange and pleasant tingling sensations.

Fly-agaric potentiates the visual effects dramatically, as well and has a stage of mental sharpness first, followed by a pleasant sort of drowsyness.

With the first three mentioned, you really get a much more pleasant trip with more feelings of euphoria, peacefulness or wellbeing, and you can take the trip to a level beyond the saturation point.

Alcohol diminishes the psychedelic effects somewhat, is my experience, although it's not an unpleasant combination. LSD temporarily increases your tolerance for booze somewhat, like many stimulants do.
I also believe that physical activity, prior to taking psychedelics, generally has a positive effect, but i have never realy established as a fact if this always works with LSD. I believe it does.

 

[69ron]

People shouldn't do it.

its just not up to you, or anybody, to decide what people should or should not do.

If you're my neighbor and you took an overdose of some drug and had to go to ER, and you have that kind of mind set that I should not tell people NOT to OD on drugs, then I'm not taking you to ER. You are on your own.

People shouldn’t overdose on drugs. People shouldn’t push themselves to near death like that. If you want to, don’t except me to help you when you get into serious trouble. I'll leave you alone and let you OD and die on your own. How’s that? Sound fair?

When someone OD's on some drug and I have to take them to the ER, yes I think I have the right to tell them they shouldn't do it.

In SWIM's life, several times he had to take some idiot to ER because they OD'd on drugs. In reality, I'd take you to ER anyway because it's the right thing to do. But I'd give you a lot of shit after that about how stupid you are by taking massive doses of drugs and our friendship might even end if you didn't stop doing it.

 

[69ron]

Taking 10 hits of acid is fine if you know its real LSD, not a bad synthesis, and you know the dosage per hit and it’s not too much.

But most people don't even know if their acid is actually real LSD, don't know it's purity, and don’t know how many micrograms or milligrams are present per hit.

If you had the large blotter that can contain up to 3 mg of drug (the kind usually used for DOM, DOI, etc.) and it actually contained 3 mg of pure LSD, and you took 10 hits, that’s 30 mg of LSD. Boy are you in for it. I hope you’re not the type that suffers side effects at that dose. The side effects from super large LSD doses can be quite serious including coma, hyperthermia and bleeding. See here: http://www.pubmedcentral.nih.gov/articlerender.fcgi?artid=1129381

But it’s more likely that if it’s real LSD the dosage level is 50 micrograms per hit and 10 hits would contain a very safe dose of only 500 micrograms, which is not enough to cause any serious side effects at all. Although it is enough to cause some unpleasant but safe side effects in some people (tension, nausea, mild cold sweat, slight rise in blood pressure, etc.), and well enough to cause some inexperienced users to completely freak out beyond belief.

Now if it’s DOM, DOB, or DOI, and you took 10 doses and they were potent 3 mg doses, holy shit! You’ll be tripping hard for days. No fun at all.

I’ve included pictures of known DOB blotter in this post. This has killed people.

 

[69ron]

Blotter containing 5-MeO-AMT. This has been fatal. Overdose cases include cardiac arrhythmia, seizure and death.

 

[polytrip]

Are substances like 5-MeO-AMT very much like LSD? could it be an interesting psychedelic tryptamine?

If there would be a relatively safe substance that could pass for LSD, that's legal and obtainable via RC company's i might be interested.

The blotters of least quality i ever had, must at least have contained some real LSD, since they had the typical LSA-like side-effects you described earlier. Badly made LSD realy sucks.

I think b.t.w that what's true for the USA must also be true for europe since it's relatively easy to smugle LSD across the border.

 

[69ron]

5-MeO-AMT is a tryptamine. Sometimes LSD gets misclassified as a tryptamine, because it’s more closely related to a tryptamine than a phenethylamine, but its actually a lysergamide which is a whole different class of drugs. LSD has no tryptamine structure in it at all. It’s based off of lysergic acid, not tryptamine. It bares little resemblance to most of the RCs which are usually tryptamines or phenethylamines, and not lysergamides.

Yeah, LSA-like side-effects are definitely an indication of real LSD badly made.

I don’t know of anything that’s really like LSD except for LSH and other LSD analogs. LSA is a tiny bit like LSD but it’s a sedative. I’ve not heard of any RC really being that much like LSD.

 

[trancepants]

Taking 10 hits of acid is fine if you know its real LSD, not a bad synthesis, and you know the dosage per hit and it’s not too much.

But most people don't even know if their acid is actually real LSD, don't know it's purity, and don’t know how many micrograms or milligrams are present per hit.

Which is why SWIM always tests his product beforehand.
One of my buddies ate a lot of doc thinking it was acid and really fucked him up in a bad way.

 

[burnt]

An experienced user can tell when acid is acid and not something else in SWIM's opinion anyway. SWIM can easily see how someone unfamiliar could not realize. But realizing after the fact doesn't help much if you've already chowed 10 hits :shock:

If you know your tolerance and your material then its really fine to eat a lot of hits but again there is a point that SWIM thinks it becomes a waste to eat more unless you just want to dose over and over and over for days which SWIM also thinks is a waste. But thats own opinion.

Eating large amounts >50 mg is just crazy and risky.

 

[dread]

LSD has no tryptamine structure in it at all.

Actually it has. LSD contains both the structure of a phenethylamine (phenyl + ethyl + amine) and the structure of a tryptamine (indole + ethyl + amine). However it is not usually classified as either of these chemicals, it is classified as an ergoline.

Ergoline

Tryptamine

See what I mean?

 

[polytrip]

I don't know wich technical terms are the right ones. But i do know that as well LSD as mushrooms give me the same weird 'electric' feeling in the throat. There are some other effects, as well visually as physically, that i only get from tryptamines, especially shrooms and 5-MeO-DMT, AND from LSD, but not from the phen's i am familiar with.
The only effects in wich LSD to me, differs from the psychedelic tryptamine's is the strange 'energy' it has, a feeling of excitement, adventure.

 

[benzyme]

because of its structure, LSD binds as a ligand at several receptor sites, initiating cascades of signaling. unlike LSD, psilocin doesn't directly act on dopamine or norepinephrine.

 

[polytrip]

because of its structure, LSD binds as a ligand at several receptor sites, initiating cascades of signaling. unlike LSD, psilocin doesn't directly act on dopamine or norepinephrine.

That would explain why LSD is so much more energetic and extatic then psilocin.
But still, the similarities are remarkable. Sometimes, just the smell of fresh mushrooms gives me that 'electric-throat'feeling.
Peyote, for instance, doesn't do that to me.

 

[69ron]

LSD has no tryptamine structure in it at all.

Actually it has. LSD contains both the structure of a phenethylamine (phenyl + ethyl + amine) and the structure of a tryptamine (indole + ethyl + amine). However it is not usually classified as either of these chemicals, it is classified as an ergoline.

Ergoline

Tryptamine

See what I mean?

Yeah, but that’s really stretching it if you ask me. Ergoline has no side chain, and tryptamine has an open side chain. That's quite a difference. It cannot be a tryptamine without an open side chain.

Here's LSD:

Here's LSA:

Here's LSH:

Here's DMT:

Here's psilocin:

Here's 5-MeO-DMT:

That difference is quite a difference and the reason why lysergamides have a lot of effects tryptamines don’t have. In ergoline, as with LSD, and other lysergamides, the tryptamine side chain doesn't exist as a side chain, so it’s no longer a tryptamine. That’s what makes it a lysergamide. All classic tryptamines have a tryptamine side chain and lysergamides do not, so they are not tryptamines.

Lysergamides affect neurotransmitters not affected by tryptamines. They are all derived from lysergic acid and NOT tryptamine. Tryptamines affect serotonin almost exclusively. That’s not true for lysergamides.

Classifying LSD as a tryptamine is really going way out there. It’s a huge molecule and as you can see in the pictures above, lysergamides have NO tryptamine side chain. Tryptamines like psilocin, DMT, 5-MeO-DMT, bufotenine, etc., all have a tryptamine side chain. LSD does not. So how can it be in the same class?

because of its structure, LSD binds as a ligand at several receptor sites, initiating cascades of signaling. unlike LSD, psilocin doesn't directly act on dopamine or norepinephrine.

That's exactly what I'm talking about. It's because its a lysergamide and not a tryptamine that it does that.

 

[spengler]

My vote would have to be "yes, and it was one of the singularly weirdest and most intense experience of my life". With ten years perspective I can say that I have no regrets about it, but it took me a lot of reflection and sleepless nights to get to that point, and I'd stop short of really reccomending it to anyone.

I notice some people seem to think that doses in excess of 500ug are a waste of time. I had a friend at one point who ate an entire sheet, and I've communicated with a few people who claim to have done thumbprints (dip a finger in alcohol and then press it onto a pure LSD crystal). All of these people report things which seem completely dissimilar to what I think of as an LSD trip; the common thread is being completely immersed in a hallucinogenic world that they could interact with. This has some similarities to what I've read about DMT, but super-dose LSD (especially thumbprints) sound a hell of a lot more jagged (and also last for 24-72 hours, though the fully immersive / visionary state usually only accounts for the first 1/3 of this).

Nothing about ~10mg+ of LSD sounds pleasant to me, but it certainly sounds interesting. Ron, you've been a strong proponent of keeping acid to <500ug in this thread, and for the most part I agree with what you've said. I am curious if you have any experience with thumbprints or super-heroic doses, or if you know anyone who does. Everything I've read about people who have printed or eaten raw crystal implies it's a one-way ticket. In a very real way, I never came down from LSD, and I only took 4-700ug a few times. I literally cannot fathom what it would be like to up that by a factor of 10 or 20.

 

[polytrip]

My vote would have to be "yes, and it was one of the singularly weirdest and most intense experience of my life". With ten years perspective I can say that I have no regrets about it, but it took me a lot of reflection and sleepless nights to get to that point, and I'd stop short of really reccomending it to anyone.

I notice some people seem to think that doses in excess of 500ug are a waste of time. I had a friend at one point who ate an entire sheet, and I've communicated with a few people who claim to have done thumbprints (dip a finger in alcohol and then press it onto a pure LSD crystal). All of these people report things which seem completely dissimilar to what I think of as an LSD trip; the common thread is being completely immersed in a hallucinogenic world that they could interact with. This has some similarities to what I've read about DMT, but super-dose LSD (especially thumbprints) sound a hell of a lot more jagged (and also last for 24-72 hours, though the fully immersive / visionary state usually only accounts for the first 1/3 of this).

Nothing about ~10mg+ of LSD sounds pleasant to me, but it certainly sounds interesting. Ron, you've been a strong proponent of keeping acid to <500ug in this thread, and for the most part I agree with what you've said. I am curious if you have any experience with thumbprints or super-heroic doses, or if you know anyone who does. Everything I've read about people who have printed or eaten raw crystal implies it's a one-way ticket. In a very real way, I never came down from LSD, and I only took 4-700ug a few times. I literally cannot fathom what it would be like to up that by a factor of 10 or 20.

Eating an entire sheet is possible if you have taken LSD, in a view consequent days before. Tolerance to it builds up quickly. I have seen someone eating a sheet as well, but this guy had been taking the stuff for days at that time.
Other chemicals that could be sold as LSD ,could also produce the effects you describe, maybe.
My experience is that if you go beyond a certain point, the side effects increase dramatically. Taking thumbprint doses, i can only imagine, must at least result in a totally lethargic state.
I could hardly notice a difference in psychedelic effects between 3 and 8 blotters, and certainly no increase in visuals. Yet i was totally unable to think clearly or to finish a single sentence because of heavy mental side effects. I think that much larger doses would leave you in a completely incapacitated state for hours, of wich you would hardly be able to remember anything. Just because of how the side effects build-up at higher doses.
If there is any truth in those 'heroic-doses' story's, then it's more an LSD-delirium, those people where in at that moment, then an actual psychedelic trip.
That's what i think, anyway.

 

[bonestoner]

Before everyone jumps on me, let me say this.

It is a fact that some people can take a sheet of acid and get NO ill effects at all.

When someone uses LSD regularly, like many Dead Heads do, they can easily take a whole sheet of acid and it won't do much at all.

You develop tolerance to LSD if you take it regularly.

Let's say you took 2 hits of LSD on Monday, then 5 hits on Tuesday, then 10 hits on Wednesday, and THEN took a "thumbprint" dose on Thursday, we'll you'd likely be fine and not experience toxic effects because of the development of tolerance.

So, yes, it's possible to take a "thumbprint" dose and experience no side effects from it, and have a good time from it if you're a regular LSD user because you'll have tolerance to it. But for a guy who hasn't used LSD before to suddenly take a "thumbprint" dose, he could possibly die from it.

Keep in mind that the LD50 of LSD goes UP as you develop tolerance to it's effects by taking it everyday. That's why some people can take 100 hits of acid and be fine, because they have built up tolerance to the LSD from taking it too often.

SWIM has taken 50 hits of strong acid after taking lots of LSD for several days in a row and experienced almost nothing from it but some minor stimulant effects. But he'd never take that much if he didn't develop tolerance to it. That much would surely make SWIM vomit his guts out had he not developed tolerance to it at the time.

I just wanna say you contradicted yourself. you didnt stick to your guns. the only people pinky printing are high family. They make them do it as a karma test. if you cant handle it your not of good character. they believe every hit layed has the chance of changing someones view of life. So when you go that high up in family to see crystals, and lay crystals to paper... they insist you pinky print as a karma test. and its actually around 200-300 doses absorbed. or 2 to 3 mgs. you prolly wouldnt die. but people have had to be "babysitted" for a couple weeks after doing it. so yea someone who has never taken lsd would never be offered a print. you act like family is stupid, when in fact you have them to thank for lsd. Owsley himself was family.

 

[dread]

All classic tryptamines have a tryptamine side chain and lysergamides do not, so they are not tryptamines.

I never said they were tryptamines. I said they contain the structure of a tryptamine, although with the side chain constricted and cyclicized. They also contain the structure of a phenethylamine, if you look it differently.

There are also tryptamines with the side chain cyclicized, such as Lucigenol, and they are still called tryptamines.

Lucigenol^