LSD spiritual or ego-trip?

[No Knowing]

I still use LSD fairly regularly, [around a half-dozen times a year] but it still carries the same double-edged sword quality to it that it did when I began use years ago. It grants me great appreciation for nature and the universe but often I find the INCREDIBLY profound thoughts I have on it make little sense or are hardly applicable to everyday life once I come down. Often during the trip I believe I have figured out some kind of secret or "ultimate truth" about reality, which leads to new dogma construction. :?: They require discarding rather than integration...

I took 5 hits by myself in the religious set and setting of my bedroom for the December 21, 2012 solstice and I had a very intense experience that made me think I was destined to become a mystic, world teacher, or messiah AGAIN; much like my first self-directed LSD trip.[seems to be a recurring theme for LSD ego-trips and me] This time I didn't let it affect my life since I knew where those delusions took me after the first LSD trip.[megalomania, escapism, use of downers, alienation from others]

A few months later I had a great trip with a childhood friend where we discussed the future and humanity's destiny and also drank passionflower tea, ate harmalas, and smoked DMT to breakthrough. This trip was VERY enlightening and didn't seem to offer delusions as some of my others had. I saw my part as a VERY insignificant aspect of an infinite universe. Although the insights were otherworldly they seemed to really apply to life and experience as a whole. It really translated to an increased quality of life and understanding over time.

Just a week ago I tripped at a festival and I had all these wild notions that festivals were run by some kind of underground cabal that was hoping to transfer lots of psychedelic peoples to hyperspace all at once or to expose teenagers to psychedelics. I thought I had figured out some secret to society in their allowal of festivals to take place.[ego-centered revelation (only I knew)] Like it was all part of "some plan" :shock: While this could be a valid interpretation of festivals[from one angle] I saw that they seem to really be run for fun and profit once I came down.

I'm glad [mostly] thanks to DMT I now question my trips validity rather than believing them to be a pure expression of truth.

I'm just wondering if others have experienced LSD's ability to give one a delusional ego-trip or a mystical revelatory trip, and what has made the difference in trips for yourself. I think I may only be using LSD when I am able to mix it with DMT as that provided the cosmic trip I was looking for with information that required integration and pondering rather than information that must be discarded because of its delusional[egocentric] and "ultimate truth"[dogma] content once I come down.

Look forward to hearing experiences.

 

[benzyme]

it is a double-edged sword.
it can steer you to more traditional paths, a la Stanislov Grof and Alan Watts,
or turn you into a delusional megalomaniac, like Charlie Manson, if you already have the underlying personality.

I've seen it turn colleagues into paranoid nihilists. I've also seen it mold already content people into zen-like beings. YMMV.

 

[Nathanial.Dread]

I don't like LSD for that very reason (also because 12 hours is WAY too long for me to be in any one headspace).

Unlike Ayahuasca, DMT or Mushrooms, LSD seems to lend itself to highly specific ways of looking at your immediate universe and integrating it into a structure that may not have any reason to be there.

I think that personal, spiritual revelations are something you're supposed to feel and not logic out. The most profound trips of my life have involved understanding and feelings of well-being that arise from my soul, not my brain. I can't explain them to anyone, they are not intimately related to anything in my immediate surroundings, beyond the very vague understanding that everything is beautiful.

Blessings
~ND

 

[universecannon]

For me, the more delusional lsd (or mushroom) trips were virtually always when i would smoke cannabis on the come up. Smoking some on the comedown is fine, but for some reason doing it on the come up is just russian roullette, and can sometimes be the final straw in loosening my grip on reality entirely.. This isn't true for everyone though, obviously, since cannabis can be so different from person to person. For me its very psychedelic, and far from relaxing. It actually is far more likely to be paranoia-filled than my experiences with other psychedelics. Apart from cannabis/other drugs, more mental preparation before the trip seems to greatly reduce the chances of delusions taking hold and steering the experience.. And so does doing it alone in a secure and safe setting. Outside in a wild public setting filled with lots of people, with a high dose, seems to really raise the chances

There was a thread a while back on the jesus or messiah syndrome that you described which you might want to check out if you haven't. Curiously its a very common thing to pop up among people who have done a fair amount of heavy tripping

 

[adam]

I guess it depends on your intent before hand. For me it was more an ego trip. Although LSD is very profound I don't like it much, simply because it doesn't have the organic quality of the other traditional psychs. The thing about LSD is that since it amplifies your immediate environment in a high resolution sort of way it is particularly sensitive to set and setting. LSD has a very sterile quality that I just don't like by itself.

The messiah complex was something I seemed to experience every time I took LSD and that I never experienced on other psychs. Mushrooms and dmt seem to have a spirit that guides you. While LSD leaves you all on your own. All that being said I believe LSD is still a great tool that could be excellent in conjunction with psychotherapy and bodywork.

 

[No Knowing]

@universecannon Yea I am well aware of the messianic thread, and I think it is something more experienced trippers should steer the newbies away from. I had major complex of this after my first LSD trip 3 years ago, which mostly centered on mankind's history and my place in it, but over that time I saw it for what is was delusion, ego-trip etc.

But being moderately experienced with LSD, 50+ trips, this delusion still crops into my LSD trips around half the time... Although I can now recognize it as false it still seems to steer a few trips into absurdist delusional territory that ends up offering me very little in the way of real insight. It has happened after weeks of spiritual preparation in a perfect set & setting while also happening at festivals.

@adam Yes it seems to happen with me on LSD and never with mushrooms, cactus, DMT, etc.

@Nathaniel.Dread Yes LSD is definitely more logical, sterile, and mental. I enjoyed it most of all when I began tripping and was quite the "mental" man obsessed with facts, reading, information. As I become more spiritual and gave up trying to "figure out" reality it is seeming to lose its allure and when I have a trip that is just whacked out wild thinking I am left unfulfilled. I still very much enjoy the mystical thoughtless state that can occur during the first part of an LSD trip.[this usually occurs in trips set in nature]

 

[Sublime]

This video is very interesting. He explains how LSD gave him his ego. He also talks about how LSD seems to be an experience manifested by human influence and how plant based hallucinogens are much safer because of the essence of the spirit within, whereas LSD lacking this, can be dangerous and risky. Informative and contemplative, nonetheless.

[youtube]

 

[○]

I try my hardest not to 'think' too much while in the depths of LSD. As soon as I produce some sort of thought during the experience, it all branches from there and I tyically end up thinking/believing something that isn't true.

As with DMT, with LSD I just sit back and LET GO. It's about accepting what comes and don't attach to anything in particular. Don't push any thought further than it has to go, or else you can get in an endless loop, a cycle of psychotic behavior, imo. Just realize that whatever the mystery is, it's far greater than we could ever imagine given the thinking capacity of our brain.

Non-resistance is key. Don't impose. Accept. Love. Then LSD can be as spiritual as any.

much love,
tat

 

[endlessness]

Id say that I also feel more prone to egotripping or delusional thinking with LSD than with, say, ayahuasca.

I've once wanted to run out to the neighbour's house at 3am with giant LSD pupils and whole world melting, to talk to one neighbour that was causing problems, thinking I was gonna solve all the inter-personal relationship issues from whole neighbourhood. The idea I had to solve the problems was totally unreasonable, but it seemed genious at the time. Im glad my girlfriend held me in the house

This doesn't mean that it always or often happen, but after having experienced such things a couple of times on LSD, I have taken a very strong note to myself to never take strong decisions, specially if it involves interacting with other straight people, and write whatever idea I have but wait for the day-after before pursuing it.

I think unexperienced lsd users should be warned of such possibilities and have a sitter ideally. Ideal set and setting definitely diminish the possibilities of such delusional events or at least of potential dangers if they happen, but don't completely cut down the risks. I also think some people tend to have more of such trips than others, but I havent found a way to accurately predict it.

LSD is great in other senses though. I find it specially good to be used as a tool for 'thinking outside the box' and brainstorming ideas (but not acting them while tripping ). I also think that up to a certain dosage, it makes me control better and be more conscious of my body, and it is great for music playing or listening. Also for sex

But if im going for spiritual exploration, I'd rather go with ayahuasca instead. That's just me though, different people may have different opinions

 

[jamie]

I have known some pretty heavy ego freaks who were also heavy acid heads. Not sure if there was any connection. I have also seen a lot of pretentious people within the ayahuasca community, but again not sure if there is a correlation there or not.

I don't have enough personal experience with LSD to really say that it made me feel like my ego had expanded. I just know that I have no interest in ever taking it again when I have access to other natural tryptamines that feel more suited for me.

In tryptamine palace James Oroc says that(for him) LSD makes you think you are god, while the natural psychs like DMT, 5meo, psilo and mesc etc connect you to god or unite you with the godhead..or something like that. I have heard a few different people say similar things.

 

[jamie]

"or turn you into a delusional megalomaniac, like Charlie Manson, if you already have the underlying personality."

I am sure all the belladonna he was eating factored in somewhere.

 

[teotenakeltje]

Haha it's realy funny that you bring this up! I was thinking about exact the same thing this week after an experience during a psytrance festival last weekend.
I was having these overwhelming feelings of love and feeling connected with the universe and nature and all the other people around me. I cried like a baby and hugged random folks. I sat down in the middle of the dancefloor in lotus position and experienced great insights.
It all felt so spiritual and I believed the old me was fading away to leave this new, refreshed and better version of me. I remember thinking: " How will I be able to live my old life with all those revelations? I can't keep 'em to myself. I will tell my dad about it, and my daughter (of 6 years old..:? ), and my boss :shock: !!"
Since my wife was lying in her tent, I felt the urgent need to share the most important day of my life with her, and ask her to be my wife. This time it was honest, this would be my real marriage!!
Now the hard part off course was finding my tent. I was very paranoid and believed people where following me so they could witness this spectacular ending! Hey they should make a movie out of this...:roll:
It took me ages but I arrived at last! I had the feeling that all my past decisions and actions lead up to this single moment!
I told my wife everything, I was crying and telling I love her and that things will never be the same again....

2 hours later I was pretty much back to baseline, and all those intense feelings were just a (funny) memory.

It seems that the insights and revelations were just feeding my ego as soon as it took over again. It was pretty disappointing, but it showed me this side of LSD.
However like endlessness pointed out, LSD is great for dancing and music and after my experience I tend to see it even more as a recreational drug. No, the best recreational drug there is!

 

[lysurgeon]

For me, it is a great struggle to understand the true nature of LSD. On one hand, I could easily point out the great (often publicly exposed) fallacies that line its history and the short period of time it has existed and been used by humans so as to lump it into the same category as the rest of the research chemicals. On the other hand, as the pranksters said back in the day, "It is quite righteous!" None of the other research chemicals approach the profundity of natural psychedelics like LSD does. So it must be special, right? And it's so potent, it must be special, right?

I have noticed this tendency to wander into delusion, particularly religious types of delusion (I am messiah!) - I have noticed this feeling that it severely drains me also, but then sometimes I have noticed it leaves me with a very clean afterglow. It is very difficult to really pinpoint how I feel about this molecule, except that it is complicated. Being chemically-minded (in that I have spent years studying chemistry very slowly, and only through reading about where my interests intersect, like with drugs, geology, biology, psychology), the delusion tends to occur during my LSD trips that some organization ( "Family" ) has sent this LSD to me in order to convince me to contribute my skills to the organized cause of LSD's continued prosperous existence. Another common delusion I get from it is that I am "the one" conscious enlightened being, and everyone else is merely a puppet; that life is no more than a lucid dream. Along the same lines I get the "I am God" thing, and it's really the only one that bears anything close to truth.

I can't help but think that LSD is a magical key, but I feel its purpose is to be a giant floating neon sign that leads western culture toward entheogens. Had there been no great LSD revolution, there wouldn't have been the mycological steadfastness which led to our present day situation of mushrooms being the most widely available psychedelic, and then I would not have had the opportunity to try mushrooms as early in life as I did. Interestingly, there was a brief period of moderate popularity with mescaline, but it certainly didn't take off the way LSD did. I wonder why that is? Never figured that one out. But nowadays, we have access to mescaline-cacti, ayahuasca-plants, and many other useful allies, all thanks to ripples in the tide emanating from a bright awakening of our culture with LSD. So I think that LSD as a tool has mostly already served its purpose. And it is one remarkable hedonistic trip!

 

[adam]

In tryptamine palace James Oroc says that(for him) LSD makes you think you are god, while the natural psychs like DMT, 5meo, psilo and mesc etc connect you to god or unite you with the godhead..or something like that. I have heard a few different people say similar things.

I agree strongly with this. I had an lsd trip that made me believe I was God, it was really troubling for me, it turned me into a meglomaniac and really kept me trapped in my ego for a long time. This was actually the impetus for my ayahuasca explorations which seem to be sort of the antidote for the ego, imo. I think like all the other drugs, it has a good and bad side and needs to be used with care. lsd I strongly believe is a molecule best used for psychotherapy, under the care of a trained professional. The susceptibility to wholly believing suggestion is strong with this molecule, which is why it is important to use this in the company of someone sober and looking out for your best interests. This is the conclusion I have reached off using it many times in many settings. Also the ambiguity of the purity and dosage troubles me. I have never truly known the dosage I have used so its hard to tell what your getting yourself into.

 

[benzyme]

"or turn you into a delusional megalomaniac, like Charlie Manson, if you already have the underlying personality."

I am sure all the belladonna he was eating factored in somewhere.

or the LSD.
it can also cause delusions, you know.

 

[Dark_Star]

The thing about LSD that I like the most is the microscopic way in which it allows me to view myself. I see where I've been doing good, where I haven't been doing good, and what's causing the problems. It also allows me to come up a game plan on how to handle these issues & progress in life. LSD dissolves my ego in a way that no other substance does. It brings out my compassion, love & understanding in a way that no other substance does. No other substance has had as profound a spiritual effect on me as LSD. However, it can be easy to assume that the effect a substance has on you is the same one that it had on everyone. I was very guilty of that in the past. Life's journey has shown me how wrong I was about that. I've met plenty of people who've eaten large amounts of LSD, and every other psychedelic for that matter, that have some of the biggest egos that I've ever met. It's all relative from person to person.

 

[Kash]

In tryptamine palace James Oroc says that(for him) LSD makes you think you are god, while the natural psychs like DMT, 5meo, psilo and mesc etc connect you to god or unite you with the godhead..or something like that. I have heard a few different people say similar things.

I agree strongly with this. I had an lsd trip that made me believe I was God, it was really troubling for me, it turned me into a meglomaniac and really kept me trapped in my ego for a long time.

What is to say we arent all god, fragments of its divine essence only we forgot in this existence? At times I feel I remember this like a fleeting thought on the tip of the tongue, throughout different experiences. With our limited cognitive ability currently in this reality, it isnt possible to fully remember what we come from or where we go becuase it is extradimensional, but there can be glimpses every now and then. So obviously dont become an egocentric person that thinks they are the next messiah but also dont pass off revelation as an arrogant troubling notion. Take heed of what is learned with a grain of salt is what I like to think.

 

[jamie]

"What is to say we arent all god, fragments of its divine essence only we forgot in this existence?"

That is the sentiment I was attempting to link to the natural psychedelics based on comparisons others have made..where LSD is more like you think you alone are god, or are a god or w/e. I don't know though, people say many things and you can ask 10 people and get 10 different answers..I know that LSD felt almost psychologically abrasive to me but like I said I never took it much cus I have mushrooms and DMT plants and feel more aligned with them.

I personally had a much deeper spiritual experience with morning glory seeds, though I only got them to work that one time.

 

[adam]

I do believe that we are all divine, but when I was really into lsd when I was younger there was a point where it seriously made me delusional, sure there were profound insights but ultimately they seemed too egocentric to have lasting value. My delusions were very grandiose and very disconnected from reality. People I used to use lsd with that still use it regularly, are in my opinion totally insane. I am sure lsd can be used responsibly with good results, but a lot of people that I know who use lsd, use it for pure recreation, which seems to inflate their egos, as it did with me when I used it.

 

[acacian]

it was interesting to hear the guy in that video make the bus analogy as I have always made a similar one myself.. like I am both the driver and the passenger in the acid realms... the creator and the creation - unable to distinguish between the two.. i think this makes LSD a particularly unique entheogen with some capabilities that perhaps others don't quite hold (and probably for good reason)... and there are some very deep personal breakthroughs that can be achieved due to this quality - as well as some deep personal harms. there is an element of risk and potential longlasting damage much more prevalent in the LSD experience... it is a much more fragile trip - but with potential to be quite the opposite too

to me, plant teachers are labelled "teachers" for good reason. they seem to imbue a guiding presence within the participant which helps define a clear distinction between the incoming information, thought/ego, and intention/self.. with LSD these can get jumbled up quite easily, though when one really taps into their relationship, the experience can go to a whole new level which I find just as deep and meanginful as a dmt breakthrough in ways.. I think it is true that LSD can boost the ego, but a true experience of ego death on LSD is certainly one of a kind

to say LSD is not or cannot be spiritual is obviously wrong, as many people have deep spiritual experiences with it which change them in a profoundly positive way - but I understand where the OP is coming from and it does hold qualities which can effect a person for better or worse. its a thousand edged sword...maybe its a club

... either way I stick to the plants now as I find them less exhausting and more nurturing/forgiving.. I would like to retain a very occasional relationship with LSD however .. maybe once a year, if that. I do still retain a deep deep respect for LSD... but I feel its just not the entheogen for me anymore... the door has already been opened and I feel whenever I take it these days I'm sorta flogging a dead horse