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making 10x caapi-are 2 weeks really necessary?

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corpus callosum

corpus callosum

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Good evening to all Nexians!

A quick query for those knowledgable individuals when it comes to changa and allied topics:

The Nexian named Dorge who knows the score with all things changa started an excellent thread pertaining to making 10x caapi leaf which suggests leaving the leaf soaking in IPA for 2 or so weeks; is this time length really necessary, or can using the leaf which has been broken up with a food chopper coupled with fairly frequent shaking of it as it is immersed in the IPA allow for a similar result but in a shorter time period?

Any thoughts/ideas/suggestions?

With much thanks in anticipation of some insightful feedback.....
 
While I really don't have a lot of experience with this, I am starting to evaporate my menstrum that has been sitting for a little over a month.

Since I added the caapi leaves to the IPA, I've been watching the glass bottle daily and I have to admit... It does get considerably darker just about every day that goes by.

I'm sure that you could have a smokable product if you just let it sit for a day or two and evap... but really... If you are going to go through the effort of doing it, why not get all the goodness you can out of the product?

The main thing that I've learned in all things DMT related (life related too, but especially DMT)... Patience really is virtuous.
 
Thanks Melodic- I wholeheartedly agree with you when you extol the virtues of patience.The question I pose is not due to a need for haste on my part;I just wonder if there is a rationale for this time length, or are there other ways to leach the goodies more effectively.Im also not certain that the darker the menstrum relates exactly with the quantity of harmala alkaloids leached, or whether this just relates to chlorphyll extracted-perhaps Gammagore or Dorge could comment on this.
 
I gotcha. The only thing I can think of that might hasten the process is to add some type of acid to the IPA.

First candidates would be either 5% vinegar or citric acid.

As far the rational goes for the alloted time, I hope that Dorge or Gammagore can provide some more enlightenment on why it takes so long.

On a different note, I never thanked you for your in-depth description on using the tin foil method in a different post. I wasn't really sure what to say to it then as I still really don't, but I wanted to thank you none-the-less. Muchos Gracias :p
 
I made a small amount of Changa (about 200 mg) from 100 mg mullein, 100 mg DMT, and 5 mg of harmala extracts FB. Mullein was the only leaf and used, and I disolved the harmala alkaloids and dmt in 10 ml acetone. I let this soak in a 50 ml glass beaker with a paper towel over it. In about 36 hours it was nice and dry not smelling in the least of acetone and slightly sticky from the DMT. It smoked very nicely and launched me very very well. Of course I was trying to enhance leaf and not extract anything from the leaf. The only thing I would do differently is to add more harmala extracts next time.
 
I don’t have experience making caapi leaf extracts, but I’ve made salvia extracts quite a few times. Many salvia extract TEKs suggest letting salvia leaves sit in solvent (usually acetone) for weeks as well. In reality, the best salvia extracts are made using three 2-minute soaks in acetone.

In general, for finely divided or powdered leaf material, what doesn’t dissolve in solvent within a few minutes to a few hours simply isn’t going to dissolve. A longer soak adds nothing.
 
With fine ground leaves in THP you can get the stuff out pretty quick, but it's physically more effort and attention. Maybe freebasing the leaves first will make for a better smoke aswell. I haven;t tried that yet.
 
I tried that mini tek a little while ago. One thing I can say is that, as time progressed, the IPA progressively became a darker shade of yellow. I found that even after the 2 weeks, the IPA continued to get darker. However, this could be the result of tannins being extracted. It might be that all the actives are extracted in the first day and that the darkening in color of the IPA is something non-active that is less soluble in IPA.

TBH the only way to know the true answer, would be to run side by side tests.
 
State of the Mind said:
I tried that mini tek a little while ago. One thing I can say is that, as time progressed, the IPA progressively became a darker shade of yellow. I found that even after the 2 weeks, the IPA continued to get darker. However, this could be the result of tannins being extracted. It might be that all the actives are extracted in the first day and that the darkening in color of the IPA is something non-active that is less soluble in IPA.

TBH the only way to know the true answer, would be to run side by side tests.
Click to expand...
What you can be certain of is that whatever it is that takes two weeks to dissolve in your solvent is not very soluble. If your desired solute is relatively insoluble, then get a different solvent where it is more soluble.

If your desired substance is reasonably soluble in your solvent, you can be sure that it will dissolve reasonably fast, assuming that there aren’t physical barriers to dissolution (for example, trying to dissolve DMT salts from whole, thick pieces of MHRB in water).
 
Thanks for all your thoughts; perhaps my initial quey should be re-worded as follows:

How soluble are the harmala alkaloids as found in caapi leaf in IPA?

Unless a Nexian or 2 can comment on this, I think some side-by-side experiments may be required to answer this.
 
Nice thread here, me liking it alot:d

So, ive made 10x ala Dorge with acetone and IPA, IPA pulls the goodies better than the acetone IMO. Also ive found that 3-4 weeks does a better job than 2 weeks, the longer it sits the more its pulling/separating, the only mission with this is the chlorophyl. I hate the stuff and im wodering how necessary it really is.
I currently have a 20x caapi, 10x chali and 10x caapi vine thats ready for evap. Im thinking of decanting off the chlorophyl off half the caapi leaf IPA to see if there is any difference to the one thats not decanted.

Now this idea of heating it up a bit, this should work, but how long to hot bath it im not sure, maybe having it ontop a radiator might work, but I see the problem of the IPA causing some pressure build up. Be carefull and allow some space for pressure to release.

But then one might aswell just boil up the leaves in some water like one would make a caapi tea, then evap that liquid and infuse it to make the changa. But I imagine that alot of chlorophyl will come out this was and make things very difficult to dry.

When I have some free time il boil up some leaves and see what comes out.
 
Off topic: Would it be possible to drytek caapi leaves or vine?

On topic: I have done this IPA tek before. I let it sit for well over 30 days, probably 60 plus. I evapped it onto a pyrex dish and wha tI scrapped up was a super fine brown powder that looked like super fine dirt. There was a little bit of sparkle in there like maybe tiny crystals. I smoked this on top of mullein and am sure I felt effects by itself...and then smoked some dmt enhanced leaf. Surely potentiated the spice.
 
from http://www.wholeliving.com/article/make-your-own-winter-remedies

Body+Soul said:
4. Let the tincture sit for 4 weeks.
During the process of soaking the herbs in the solvent, the plants soften and break down (a process known as maceration), releasing their medicine. Most Western herbalists recommend letting tinctures macerate for 4-6 weeks. In Chinese medicine and several indigenous traditions, however, herbs are left to soak for months, even years. I have found that the longer tinctures macerate, the more effective they are, so consider a month your minimum. When starting the maceration process, label and date your jars so that you remember when you started.
Click to expand...
 
D_Juggz said:
yetti, if you dont have ipa, methylated spirits (denatured ethanol) is also a good option.
Click to expand...
no meths over here is tainted and dyed to stop the Africans drinking it,
 
corpus callosum said:
Good evening to all Nexians!

A quick query for those knowledgable individuals when it comes to changa and allied topics:

The Nexian named Dorge who knows the score with all things changa started an excellent thread pertaining to making 10x caapi leaf which suggests leaving the leaf soaking in IPA for 2 or so weeks; is this time length really necessary, or can using the leaf which has been broken up with a food chopper coupled with fairly frequent shaking of it as it is immersed in the IPA allow for a similar result but in a shorter time period?

Any thoughts/ideas/suggestions?
Click to expand...

Swim can suggest at least two improvements:

1. A stirrer may shorten extraction to a few days, especially if you decant the liquids and add some fresh IPA a few times. You may evap or distill excess IPA later.

2. In a Soxlet or any other extractor it could be done in a few hours. An extractor continuously washes the leaf with fresh solvent, so the extraction is very efficient.
 
Here's a shameless plug to my own caapi tincture, which I found out VERY effective both for Aya and Changa:


You can do it in one or two days, so it's definitely an improvement

The way I did 10x changa was just adding enough tincture volume to caapi leaf. For instance if I had 500 grams of caapi in 50 ml of tincture, I would soak 1g of leaf in 1 ml tincture (10 grams worth of caapi) and let it evaporate. I would end up with about 1.5 grams of dried infused leaf, which can be infused again with 1.5 grams of spice for producing 3 grams of POWERFUL changa (and I mean it!)
 
i found a one day acetone pull followed by a DCM/MEK pull to leave my powdered cappi leaf a tan/grey color so most likley every thing came out. harmaloids in their natural tannate form are extreamly soluable in acetone somewhere in the area of a little over 100mg/ml so if you pull with atleast enough to be 10ml per 1g of leaf it should pull it all out relativly quickly. mabey something ala phlux would work good by making a consentrated tea then adding that tea to acetone, all the plant gunk, sugars and carbohydrates will clump togather and fall out of solution, just decant and you should have a nice dark yellow liquid that could be evaped down and added to leaf or encapsulated for pharmayahausca. i gave been meaning to try my extraction tek on cappi to see if i can get crystals of THH like my harmaline crystals...


 
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