• Members of the previous forum can retrieve their temporary password here, (login and check your PM).

making changa stronger

Migrated topic.
F

frequentflyer

Rising Star
SWIM has been using 69rons extract method. SWIM has attempted to make his second batch of changa stronger by simply adding less herb, but this didnt seem to have any more effect than adding 2/1 herb and also made it harder to smoke because the DMT acetate is a bit wet and goey. At the present time, SWIM finds it takes 3 heavy draws from the pipe and of course holding it for a long time to properly get the desired effect. SWIM wonders if there is any way of achieving this quicker by making the changa stronger? thanks
 
1:1 is more than strong enough for most, though you can use less herb than DMT by weight if you wanted to. The fact it's acetate might be a factor to why it's hard to smoke but the DMT should be dissolved in acetone or similar first so there shouldn't really be that much of a problem. Using a bong is the only way, pipes are redundant when it comes to changa.
 
What my kitty cat friend does is he warms up the spice on top of a pile of herb (passionflower, sinicuichi, etc), so that it melts. Then he takes one deep breath before smoking. The he relaxes, gives the spice gentle fire and inhales as much he feels comofortable to keep inhaled. Then he puts the pipe away and starts meditating the somke in his lungs so that he violently pushes and pushes with every single muscle of his chest to keep the lungs filled. He goes red, his eyes are wide open, then his throat starts making a roaring sound while he slowly passes the smoke out. Till the lungful is exhaled, he's far across the distance by then. He thinks this works because the rush from the lack of oxygen and the small overdose of carbon dioxide helps dmt to penetrate his kittie's blood brain barrier, or something. 20mg to breakthrough. He is a daily smoker though, but no bongs needed.
 
Just checking... but you are freebasing the acetate yeh? The acetate is still in salt form... you need to freebase with calcium carbonate (if using ron's tek) .. which will give you runny honey goo.

But aside from that, technique is the key... I am still mastering, but bong seems to work most times.. I just need to be more couragous with dose I think; I often wind up not breaking thru and wishing I had loaded up more. But the nerves often get to me...
 
Very true. The acetate will need holding in nearly twice as long as the freebase in order to rextalize in the lungs. DMT salts are impossible to get the best out of. You'll be holding it until you are blue in the face.

I've been using a 1:1 DMT:Caapi in a dry bong and I'm a better man for it :)
 
whats all this dry bong business?

I actually ended up with a dry bong once recently, but only cos I'd previously knocked it over and spilt the water and forgotten .. do people find its better dry? I wonder why.... perhaps the water soaks in some of the dmt...?
 
Yeah, don't smoke DMT salts. It's really a waste. There is a reason that almost all teks have the final steps leaving the DMT as freebase.

Also, you can make your changa a bit stronger by melting the spice with a bit of heat. Melted spice (by heat, not by a solvent) is for some reason stronger than crystalized spice. use a hairdryer and heat up your changa (without blowing it away) for a minute or two. Put in the freezer afterwords to solidify the spice back onto the leaf. 10-20 minutes is more than enough, remember to seal it first or you will have water condensation in your changa.

Other than that, you can just make the concentration a bit higher. 2:1 (spice:leaf) is pretty strong. 75mgs is a 50mg spice dose. That would be pretty easy to get down in a hit or two.


Also, are you using Caapi leaf? Does that really change the experience? If so how? I doubt there is enough MAOI to really make a difference, but there is more than MAOI's in Caapi.
 
I really feel caapi leaf changes the experience. They synergize automatically. I can feel the constriction of the vine instantly.
And I just prefer no water in my bong. It's smoother for some reason.
 
۩ said:
I really feel caapi leaf changes the experience. They synergize automatically. I can feel the constriction of the vine instantly.
And I just prefer no water in my bong. It's smoother for some reason.
Click to expand...

I feel that synergy also! Caapi knows the DMT molecule well, they're good buddies ;)
Gonna try the dry bong soon... 8)
 
Before I run out and get some Caapi leaves to try I've got a few more questions.

how does Caapi leaf smoke? Is it harsh? Would a non-smoker be able to inhale it without killing their lungs (smooth like white lotus?)?

Also, can anyone comment on HOW the experience is different?

Is it slower paced?
Does it last longer?
It there a feeling of a presence?
 
Caapi leaf burns surprisingly well. It stays lit, tastes good, and is smooth. I was VERY surprised! It goes great in changa with mullein!
It can be slower paced, more flowing. The caapi has been known to flip a light on, rather than how pure N,N takes me into the dark.
It can last longer if you get a real heavy dose, but it's about the same. Time is really relative, anyway :]
Definitely a presence. Definitely caapi. I love her leaves.
 
I find Caapi on its own, is not the nicest smoke... but in changa mixed with mullein and maybe peppermint it smokes real nice.
Also, good one to try is making an alcohol tincture with caapi leaf and vine and using that as your solvent ... IMO this takes it a step closer to "smokeable ayahuasca" (still a world apart from the experience an aya brew can give you).
 
balaganist said:
I find Caapi on its own, is not the nicest smoke... but in changa mixed with mullein and maybe peppermint it smokes real nice.
Also, good one to try is making an alcohol tincture with caapi leaf and vine and using that as your solvent ... IMO this takes it a step closer to "smokeable ayahuasca" (still a world apart from the experience an aya brew can give you).
Click to expand...

I always used to use a mix of everclean and IPA. I found that IPA really makes more of a colloidal than a solution. The ethanol helps to dissolve the spice, but since its so expensive I mix it with the IP alcohol. Seems to work well. I imagine that acetone would also work.

I tried it once with heptane and it worked suprisingly well, I was just worried about small amounts of heptane trapped in the leaf.


Thanks for the input guys. Mullen leaf is always a winner and I've got pleanty of it. I might try a mix of lotus, mullen, and caapi leaf. I konw that lotus changes the experience as well. It's a little more flowing (and relaxed) instead of geometric if that makes any sense.
 
Thanks for all the responses. SWIM is doing this:


1 - Powderize your mimosa bark. Mix 100 grams of bark with 25 grams of calcium hydroxide. Add enough water to make it feel wet but not
watery. Mix for about 5 minutes.

2 - Add 300 ml of d-limonene. Mix well. Let sit a few hours.

3 - Pour off the d-limonene through a filter.

4 - Add 25 ml of vinegar to the d-limonene. Mix thoroughly.

5 - Separate the vinegar from the d-limonene (the vinegar is at the bottom, the d-limonene at the top). This vinegar will contain
DMT acetate. Evaporate your vinegar in a food dehydrator at 155 F to get sticky DMT acetate.

6 - Repeat steps 4 and 5 at least 2-3 times,

7 - Repeat steps 2 - 6 at least 2 times.

By the way, the same tech works for extracting mescaline from cactus. Mescaline acetate is slightly waxy after drying it completely.

For DMT, this produces sticky DMT acetate. DMT acetate will never be dry. It's best for use in ayahuasca.


Then SWIM is doing this:

Anyway once you have your gooey salts, I really think your best bet is to redissolve in a little bit of hot distilled water
(use roughly one ounce of water per pound of bark). Then in an eyedropper bottle add saturated sodium carbonate solution,
followed by iso. The iso floats to the top... then use the eyedropper to suck off the iso, evap it, and repeat. This removes
most of the sodium carbonate. Once the iso is evapped, redissolve the goo in anhydrous iso, which will not dissolve the
sodium carbonate. Filter or pour off carefully to remove the sodium carbonate and evap your iso onto some leaf.

(SIDE NOTE - THE ISO DOESNT SEEM TO FLOAT TO THE TOP WHEN ADDING TO THE SATURATED SODIUM CARBONATE SOLUTION, BUT ONCE FINISHED AND SMOKED IT STILL SEEMS TO WORK OK)

Can anyone advise SWIM how to change this so as to be able to achieve a finished changa herb + dmt mix which SWIM can control the strength of? As I said before because SWIM is leaving it as acetate it just gets really goey and the more dmt acetate the less it smokes. Thanks.
 
The one time I tried this, I ended up mixing the Sodium Carb solution maybe too much - it all went milky; but settled after a bit. I repeated the process till I had sucked up all the ISO... but each time there was less of the sodium carbonate solution. I think its hard to know for sure how much DMT you get with this method. So, although it works it is not the most practical..

I wonder, if there may be a way to combine ron69's tek with jorkests .. replacing vinegar with fumaric acid saturated water; so people can avoid using lye but still end up with a workable weighable substance at the end.
 
acolon_5 said:
Before I run out and get some Caapi leaves to try I've got a few more questions.

how does Caapi leaf smoke? Is it harsh? Would a non-smoker be able to inhale it without killing their lungs (smooth like white lotus?)?

Also, can anyone comment on HOW the experience is different?

Is it slower paced?
Does it last longer?
It there a feeling of a presence?
Click to expand...

my good goddess! does it make a difference? OMFG it does... RU KIDDING!
its really the only way worth doing it!!!
caapi leaf especially when concentrated smokes very nicely when say mullien and other herbs are added for the effect of calming the sensation of smoking. SWIM SAYS its smooth... and tastes amazing when agua de florida is added...
is it slower paced... yes and no... the effects are longer and more easy to work with, it comes on fast still and if made right break through happens and one can work form that place for a long time.
one feels the vine and it speaks and guides you much like with aya. it is a smokable aya.

the most amazing part is that it goes straight to the point, the harmalas are WAY more concentrated when smoked especially with tryptamine because it goes to the head directly instead of having to bypass the bodies digestive system and all of these enzymes along the way, Dennis mckenna pointed this out he couldnt believe how well it worked either, neither could trout. its totally its own unique thing neither smoked dmt by its self or ayahuasca its totally unique. but carries the best of both with it... swim does not think he could smoke spice on its own or drink aya ever again... theres no need!
but any way the harmals go dirrectly to the brain acording to mckenna and inhibit the enzymes dirrectly... so what you get is a purge free instant aya effect thats mind blowing, and if smoked rigth long lasting... and if one works with a concentrated caapi leaf then its even more effective...
 
^

K, I'm intrigued. I guess its time to pick up some Caapi leaf. I always assumed that there just wasn't enough "spirit" in the leaf to really make that much of a difference...but if you say you can FEEL the vine working, well, that's what I am looking for.

Although I doubt that I will ever give up Aya for vaped Spice. There really is nothing like a solid Aya cerimony to balance, heal, and revive oneself.
 
Back
Top Bottom