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MAOI and SNDRI. Or Greek mountain tea and Syrian rue.

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murklan

murklan

Esteemed member
I'm sitting here with a cup of Greek mountain tea. I've not grown the herb in this cup but I've tried growing it two times. Just got small plants, but I think it can be grown enough to be self-sufficient. I have however bought a big bag of the herb Sideritis scardica, organic and grown in Greece. Wanting to try it out properly before I might give a larger cultivation attemt takes place. I got curious of it after reading about it might having effect on ADHD/ADD, depression and other tricks of the mind.
I found and rest parts of The Acute and Chronic Cognitive and Cerebral Blood Flow Effects of a Sideritis scardica (Greek Mountain Tea) Extract: .
And Extracts of Sideritis scardica as inhibitors of monoamine transporters : A pharmacological mechanism for efficacy in mood disorders and attention-deficit hyperactivity disorder ( ADHD )

But when I got just a little bit deeper I found a new word for me. Monoamine reuptake inhibitor. And more, Sideritis scardica seems to be "A serotonin–norepinephrine–dopamine reuptake inhibitor (SNDRI), also known as a triple reuptake inhibitor (TRI)".
Extracts of Sideritis scardica as triple monoamine reuptake inhibitors
On sci-hub: Sci-Hub | Extracts ofSideritis scardicaas triple monoamine reuptake inhibitors | 10.1007/s00702-012-0824-9

Now my curiosity. What to do with this information. Is there a potential risk combining this with an MAOI, like Syrian Rue? Or benefits? I've read somewhere (here on the nexus) that also THH is working as a monoamine reuptake inhibitor.
downwardsfromzero said:
... The major known pharmacological action of THH at present is as a monoamine reuptake inhibitor, as per Dennis McKenna's (et al) research in recent years.
Click to expand...

I'm getting curious :)

By the way. The tea was nice. Very soft, smooth, a subtle taste, neither green nor haw tasting. Nice. (...or is it the SNDRI working ;) )
 
Thanks for pointing this out! There's loads of this one in my cupboard as well as in the health food shops. I may try adding some to my rue brews from now on. I could do with clearing up a bit more of the ADHD behaviors as well myself.

Time for a brew, methinks...

Be sure to let us know what effects you may (or may not) notice. Does it work immediately, or does it require regular dosing for maximum efficacy?

It would be prudent to check for the reversibility of the monoamine reuptake inhibition before proceeding cautiously with any harmala combinations; there should be minimal interaction with the dopamine & noradrenergic effects since they're metabolised by the MAO-B, which is barely affected by harmalas.
 
Well, I just had a cup of the tea (no rue) and I get that sense of "well, that was a really nice cup of tea", and that life is going to be just fine - in fact, better than that. So yes, it seems the effects are of fairly rapid onset. I'm rather considering having another cup, as well as wondering what might happen if I drank LOADS of it...

I did also include a few leaves of Salvia splendens because I have loads of that as well and intuition tells me these two plants will complement each other.

Next, we'll see how a bit of rue quidding goes with it and with any lucky I'll survive to report back in the morning.

EDIT: second cup brings an increased sense of wellbeing.
 
Hey!

Great that you are on to this too downwardsfromzero! I wonder what you don't have in your cupboard :)

The herb seems to be popular for many reasons but not particularly for mood related issues. Will se if I can dive deeper into this, both experiential and what I find to read. Can be interesting. Also, since it's possible to grow your own and that it quite inexpensive to buy (and seems to have sustainable ways of harvesting/cultivation) it might be ways to make extracts etc.

But also just to enjoy a nice cup of tea.
 
Well it turns out the higher dose can become a bit of a rollercoaster, although that may well have been a product of circumstances; I had a bit of a cry on the shoulder of a friend and then proceeded to attempt sleeping. That wasn't wholly successful:
following the large dose of Greek mountain tea that I reported trying, a small (~½tsp) amount of quidded rue seed was remarkably psychoactive (much more than normal) and I slipped into a feverish dream state where the scenario was nuclear ICBM attack
Click to expand...

Heavy as that sounds (and it was) it was rather more concerned with strategic anti-missile defences, but I did get a good overview of the suborbital paths. TBH, it seemed like something of a rehash of parts of a recent Kurzgesagt video, and I did raise the topic of dreams containing graphic military violence in a recent discussion, so I won't be dwelling on it all that much.

Other cautions are that I had had an extra cup of coffee the previous afternoon and this appeared to impact on the cardiovascular system even before the fever dream; I've also considered whether the spicy food I ate the previous midday might have played their role, not to mention a dose of ashwaganda and another, different tea blend. I also got the sense that I may have been fighting of a respiratory virus, so the military scenario becomes symbolically relevant, as well as this type of healing dream being a fairly regular feature throughout my life. Edit: then there was the gorgonzola that I ate about 10 hours previously:roll:

All in all, some kind of groundstate shamanic dieta would seem prudent if exploring this combo further.

Nice tea in and of itself tho :D
 
Wow! Whatever the reasons for your strong experience this is something I'd like to explore more. First mountain tea and a small bit of rue, without other substances in the system (hmmm, I wonder for how long ginkgo extracts effects last?). Then I'm curious of combining it with my new 'favorite' combo, cannabis and rue.

Still I wonder about similarities of Sideritis and Caapi/THH. When I've extracted more DMT I might also give it a try to combine it.

And further, is it possible to vape?
 
It really could be a product of circumstances - a kind of 'straw that broke the camels back' situation. I wouldn't get overexcited about it, but the result for triple amine reuptake inhibition is there in the literature. All the same, it's worth bearing in mind that my biochemistry may be somewhat divergent from the norm due to dealing with long term pain without conventional painkillers.

It would probably be helpful if I made a kind of caveat thread containing details of my diverse intake of herbs - no more than a teaspoon of each per day but around a dozen separate herbs - that I use periodically to manage certain health conditions.

With all that in mind, I look forward to hearing details of your experiences starting from a more baseline kind of place!
 
dragonrider said:
Wow, this sounds interesting. I suppose it's a mild stimulant that you shouldn't drink before going to bed?
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Mhm - especially not after a curry a coffee, and some gorgonzola, I think, even if it was ten or more hours previously. It does say "entspannend" (relaxing) on the packet, but it may be similar to chamomile in that a larger dose becomes stimulating. Speaking of chamomile, I will be posting my herb tea component list tomorrow sometime.

I'll be taking dieta rather more seriously in future.
 
I think diversity is good in general downwardsfromzero. Unless there things that you wish to work on specifically and let other things wait.

I didn't know that about chamomile and possibility of being stimulating. Thought it was as with hops. more is more :)

Looking forward to the list for teas!
 
murklan said:
I think diversity is good in general downwardsfromzero. Unless there things that you wish to work on specifically and let other things wait.

I didn't know that about chamomile and possibility of being stimulating. Thought it was as with hop. more is more :)

Looking forward to the list for teas!
Click to expand...
Here's the Tea List

peppermint leaf
chamomile flowers
mistletoe herb
nettle herb
marshmallow root
calamus root
horsetail herb
lemon balm herb
St John's wort herb
cleavers herb
sage herb
cistus herb
speedwell herb
green oat herb
goldenrod herb
hemp leaf
yarrow herb
red clover blossom

The nearer the top of the list, the higher the likelihood of inclusion in the daily brew :) There are things on that list I would not consume indefinitely, such as mistletoe, sage and calamus. They regularly get omitted for a week or more.
 
Wow, that is quite a herbal pharmacy you got there downwardsfromzero!

I mostly drink teas/tictures from plants a grow or harvest myself. Except ginkgo, mountain tea (as mentioned in this thread) and a some others from time to time.

Now I have a bit more experience with mountain tea, been taking it every night, 1g steeping in a thermos mug for ~10min. I can say that I feel a difference... calmer some how. Placebo or not, I'm going to continue with this.

I also had a test with rue the other night. 2,25 g rue as tea + 100mg extracted harmalas. Wait 2,5h then a cup of 1g mountain tea. I could/should have stopped there and see what the effects were but I also wanted my rue/cannabis combo since I've had a intense period lately and wanted the wakefulness + rest I get from this.

The experience from combining the rue, mountain tea and some uplifting cannabis (what is generally refereed to as a sativa type of weed) was great! I was slightly euphoric and had really clear visions that I could follow easily and watch closely. I remember thinking that this was the closest to a classic psychedelic experience I've had with rue/cannabis. A bit stimulated, lying down for ~3h and just listening to music and thinking things through. Highly recommended. Will try again and see if it is something in this combination.
 
Well,mwell, well... I too love the cannabis rue/harmala combo, especially for meditation. Perhaps there's a new addition to the mix and excite me for longer meditations (when I have the time).

Thanks for sharing and for the preliminary explorations you two. I'll report back when I get to try some. I have to wait until payday next week though.

One love
 
Yes, perhaps is this some kind of meditation for me too... But I's closer to entertainment :) Internal scenes and movies come and go. Some has perhaps a deeper meaning, or can be given one. It's a time when I can relate to, reflect upon and entertain myself is ways I find hard otherwise.

Looking forward to here more about your experiences Voidmatrix!
 
I've had a few more goes with this (GMT+rue/harmalas) combo and can confirm the uplifting effect as well as the positive synergy. I'm still not sure GABA-ergics are my thing but may yet try some daytime experiments to get more of a grasp on their nature. I should also add, the intensely weird dreams were definitely due to exhaustion and fighting off a virus.
 
Voidmatrix said:
Anyone want to humor my paranoia? :p

I'm wondering if anyone thinks there may be a contraindication in drink Greek mountain tea and microdosing San Pedro?

One love
Click to expand...
Paranoia warranted.

There are quite a few MAO-B inhibitors in cacti, it would be wise to tread carefully mixing with an SNDRI.
 
dreamer042 said:
Voidmatrix said:
Anyone want to humor my paranoia? :p

I'm wondering if anyone thinks there may be a contraindication in drink Greek mountain tea and microdosing San Pedro?

One love
Click to expand...
Paranoia warranted.

There are quite a few MAO-B inhibitors in cacti, it would be wise to tread carefully mixing with an SNDRI.
Click to expand...

Thank you.

Hmmmm, well, it looks like my GMT won't be daily because I'm enjoying the current experimentation with microdosing San Pedro. Simultaneously, I would like to venture into GMT with rue/harmalas. Have some experimenting to do to find the right dosing while staying safe with that combination as well. I also have some curiosities in adding other herbs such as blue lotus, African dream herb (which I still need to try on its own) and lemon balm.

One love
 
Glad that the thread continues!
I doubt that there would be much contraindications. I've mixed Greek mountain tea and Rue on several occasions. Not micro doses either. No bad experiences. Last time 2,5 g rue, 1 g mountain tea and 2 g dried (2 years old) P. semilanceata. A really nice experience. Perhaps the most euphoric and happy I've felt in a long while :)
 
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