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Masochistic Contract

@LuxObscura That's the beauty of the Middle Way. It doesn't stray into extremes. For example, Madhyamaka exists specifically for spiritual attainment.
It develops our faculties and logic to go beyond them. All we do here is play with our sandcastles. Go deep enough, and logic starts to break.
Logic is a nice tool, and intellect is a nice tool. However, the modern world tends to believe that these tools are us 😶‍🌫️
 
I've read and digested all the replies pertaining to my mini essay. All highly appreciated, thank you.

I think due to the nature of the topic, as stated by all of us in one way or another, we cannot prove scientifically any of it.

Instead I continue to choose belief. I believe 'I' am a fragment of the singular source of awareness. That awareness is fundamental. Matter is a construct of that awareness.

Nothing but a singularity of awareness satisfies my need to ask 'but what came before that'. Leading to acceptance that awareness just is and always was.

My experiences as 'me' have given me enough logical sense to build and maintain that mostly blind belief.
 
If you are wrong and it turns out there is nothing when we die, not even awareness, then no loss. It was coming anyway.
My little mathematical thought on why eventually something must exist and why there is no escaping of the eternal return is as follows. In a infinite (and maybe even finite) existence/void, if something has a probability of existing no matter how tiny, it will eventually manifest. And since I am here existing, I am confident the probability of this moment and any previous moment is non-zero, in fact since I haven't experienced nothingness or any other existence state, from my perspective the probability is 1, so this moment and any other moment are all bound to happen, over and over again.

Another way of looking at this, if you agree that time or at least the way we experience its flow is a human construct/necessity or a consequence of the second law of thermodynamics, and so timelessness is the true state of existence, then everything is there forever, moments are like pages in a book, and these moments we're having are always there and always will be.

When I was reading the first few pages of "the unbearable lightness of being" I came across the idea of "the eternal return" and it seemed so powerful to me, it made me reconsider how I want to spend every moment from there on, knowing that it's gonna come again, over and over again, I want my moments to be worthy and free of shameful acts. And then when I learned that the book is like a refutation of that idea I didn't want to continue reading it. Actually it was mainly because the copy I had was in french :b
 
That's beautifully explained. You took my imagination all the way from feeling life could be a random occurrence in a fundamentally material universe right through to more what we've been talking about.
 
"..the only logical answer is that the source of everything must be a single point that always was."

Why? How?

It's exactly the same as the logic behind the big bang theory. The human need to follow the logic to such a conclusion in a fundamentally material existence.

In a fundamentally awareness existence the desire to find such a satisfying answer leads me to the same stopping point at the unexplainable.
 
The struggle is real. What inspires me is learning about others that have overcome their struggles in life, some of which are absolutely terrible and yet, still they found a purpose and pushed onward to a authentic self. The heroes journey. Someone who may offer some inspiration in this regard is a man names Viktor Frankl. He lived through a concentration camp of WWII and in doing so found beauty in the human soul. I highly recommend his book 'Man's search for meaning'.

We who lived in concentration camps can remember the men who walked through the huts comforting others, giving away their last piece of bread. They may have been few in number, but they offer sufficient proof that everything can be taken from a man but one thing: the last of the human freedoms -- to choose one's attitude in any given set of circumstances, to choose one's own way.
-Viktor Frankl


Perhaps they chose that path before they came. I read the book 'Soul Stories' by Gary Zukav and it contains several short stories of souls that decided on difficult journeys through this life. There was always a lesson and a choice to see that lesson. There is a choice in how we approach our attitude about our existence. I think those that have gone through the most hell are the ones that can heal others with the most understanding. A brilliant healing light born from fire.

If I chose to come here, I honor that choice and seek to find my lesson, my purpose and accept this life.
 
the second law of thermodynamics
Well, what the second law of thermodynamics predicts, assuming the Universe just keeps going, is the eventual heat death of the Universe, where all energy ends up homogeneously distributed and no life would be possible. Although that's compatible with everything being here forever.

One could also assume that time eventually ends, and therefore it's very likely that at every moment reality is at a state that won't ever happen again.

Or one could assume infinite time but a closed cycle of events, where instead of every possible state eventually happening infinite times, the same sequence of states happens over and over again, forever.

Or it could be modeled as a tree of universes, where the current branch splits up into two or more separate universes every time something like a quantum particle in state superposition collapses into a given state (it would collapse into a different state in every of those universes), or more interestingly every time a conscious being makes a decision: it would make a different decision in every of those universes, and the conscious awareness of "deciding" would just be choosing of what branch you want to keep being aware of and living in.

The possibilities are endless!

What we do know is that now exists, whatever its ultimate nature may be.
 
We are so heavily conditioned into a fundamentally material universe. It is so very difficult to break the mold and start viewing existence as fundamentally awareness.

Since there is no ultimate proof within reach, either option is equally viable.

The more I follow the path of fundamental awareness the more cross over evidence makes itself apparent.

Equal and opposite reactions. Can apply to human emotion just as well as to physical forces.

Magnetism can apply to human relationships just the same as physical attractive/repulsive forces.

Black hole singularity of matter seems to just as cleanly apply to source point of awareness.

I could keep pointing out crossovers until a TL/DR is required.

In short, from my position currently, we got so many things right when describing the physical world. It's our conditioning to believe in a fundamentally material universe that arrests an enormous spiritual awakening.

We got so many concepts absolutely correct. We just applied them to materialism instead of consciousness.
 
Well, what the second law of thermodynamics predicts, assuming the Universe just keeps going, is the eventual heat death of the Universe, where all energy ends up homogeneously distributed and no life would be possible. Although that's compatible with everything being here forever.
And that end state can be equivallent (it is mathematically) to the supposed void state pre bigbang and so it goes again.

One could also assume that time eventually ends, and therefore it's very likely that at every moment reality is at a state that won't ever happen again.
It's more about the nature of the momemts or time itself, not its progression, which one can associate a beginning and an end to it. It feels odd if one assumes that only this current moment exists and all else does not, and how big is this moment? ~0.01 sec completely defined by human awarness/processing speed? Planck time? Infinitely small? Are the moments continous or discrete? Now we're getting into Zeno's paradox which is at the heart of all these questions.

Or one could assume infinite time but a closed cycle of events, where instead of every possible state eventually happening infinite times, the same sequence of states happens over and over again, forever.
Yes that's kind of the point I was making, if we don't try to focus on the hows and whys, and just on the fact(?) that this moment and other moments exists, and maybe infinetly many other moments we're not aware of, then they all have a non-zero chance of existing and eventually will, infinitely many times.

I have to say that one time I read a small book about probabilities and the author strictly warned about applying probabilities to metaphysical problems, my instinct is that he's right, so maybe I'm at the egde of exhuasting this thought and need something new soon haha.

I feel that is true about sharing thoughts in general, whenever things are brought outside they lose power, but that's ok, now there's free space for new stuff. This can also be good when sharing your fears and worries, they shrink to their true size after being blown up by your mind.

Or it could be modeled as a tree of universes, where the current branch splits up into two or more separate universes every time something like a quantum particle in state superposition collapses into a given state (it would collapse into a different state in every of those universes), or more interestingly every time a conscious being makes a decision: it would make a different decision in every of those universes, and the conscious awareness of "deciding" would just be choosing of what branch you want to keep being aware of and living in.
This point is the most relevant imo, the theories that push away the conscious observer are not so useful for that conscious observer. I mean what I care most about is how I perceive and feel my state of existence.

Nothing but a singularity of awareness satisfies my need to ask 'but what came before that'. Leading to acceptance that awareness just is and always was.
Terence Mckenna says that the scientific theory requires a singularity and they put it at the beginning before the bigbang. So we are all allowed a singularity, he put his at the end, the cosmic attractor. And this is your singularity fink.
 
Sorry if I'm going to upset anyone, but this thread is a good example of fallacy in our Western mindset.
We're too much into intellect. We try to defend our ideas as if our lives depend on it. What if we never get it?
I love a good argument, but it's just a game. Who knows what? It's all ephemeral, made of mind stuff and judged once again by the mind.

Space-time is a mind construct and exists only for us primates. We can argue otherwise, but we can never know.
Here & Now is the pointer to the real state of affairs. Even time dilation during a psychedelic journey isn't just a psychological phenomenon.
It points to reality. We just doubt it right away when the ego starts to operate in full again. That's why sages like Buddha answered with silence.
Words lead nowhere, only to more words. Silence represents absolute reality. Someday, in some life, we'll get tired of it all and just sit in Silence.
Real freedom is not far from there. May all be well 🙏
 
@Sakkadelic I reread my post, and it sounds more like my own frustration about life 🥲
Sure, we are here to play. Enjoy it as much as you can. However, never forget what is really going on.
Our life is truly like a dream. Laugh or cry about it - you decide. Row, row, row your boat...
Silent Film Water GIF by Det Danske Filminstitut
 
I personally think that this thread is much more like it should usually be: people playing the game while aware that it's just a game. I wish the open mindedness and epistemic humility that has been present in this thread was much more common!
 
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