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Maximise your yields

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soulman

soulman

Rising Star
I thought it would be a good idea so start a thread about this, where people can share their tried and tested methods for achieving greater yeilds. Sorry if a thread like this already exists, but i could seem to find one.

To get the ball rolling, SWIM will shortly reciving his 2nd ever batch of MHRB. His first batch was just 100g to get a feel for the technique. He used the STB method which he will be sticking with, simply for spped and simplicities sake.
His soon to be order, will be for 1lb of the stuff and his question relates to the amount of naptha required.
The Lazymans tchnique says that 250ml of naptha should do for extraction with 1lb, but i did read somewhere elese on here that in order to maximaise the yields one should use excessive naptha eg 500ml, and then evapourate that down to 1/10th of the original volume i.e 50mls and then freeze that.

Can anyone elaborate or comment on this please?
 
If you know what you're doing, you should be extracting virtually all of the spice. If spice is still coming through in your naphtha, then keep on pulling. The only way you're going to get a sub-par yield is if you throw your extraction away when there's still spice in it.

The only other comment I have is that more effective solvents (like xylene or toluene) can often pull more DMT after the naphtha has stopped pulling.
 
I would like to know what the best temperature for heating the mixture and naptha as SWIM has gotten much more when the solvent was heated prior to being poured into the mix. Out of 100 grams of powdered MHRB and heating the naptha in a bath of just boiled water for about 5 mins, SWIM pulled about 1 gram of spice looking very white and pure in 3 pulls combined into 1 jar then frozen.

On the next attempt though, the solvent and spice came out too yellow which SWIM thinks is because the heating was too much and oils and fats came through into the solvent. The effects were just as strong as the white spice but after effects were a yucky oily throat feeling which tinted all the visuals with a yellowy cellophane effect, still very enjoyable though.:)
 
Entropymancer said:
If you know what you're doing, you should be extracting virtually all of the spice. If spice is still coming through in your naphtha, then keep on pulling. The only way you're going to get a sub-par yield is if you throw your extraction away when there's still spice in it.
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So are you saying that there is no advantage to evapourating some of the naptha prior to freezing it?
 
Linga Sarira said:
I would like to know what the best temperature for heating the mixture and naptha as SWIM has gotten much more when the solvent was heated prior to being poured into the mix. Out of 100 grams of powdered MHRB and heating the naptha in a bath of just boiled water for about 5 mins, SWIM pulled about 1 gram of spice looking very white and pure in 3 pulls combined into 1 jar then frozen.
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Im not sure what the optimum temperature would be, but iv heard that warmer naptha holds more spice than room temperature naptha, due to the fact that it has expanded slightly. So i guess any tempeture below the boiling point, also bearing in mind that warmer naptha will evapourate alot quicker, so not too warm either
 
soulman said:
Entropymancer said:
If you know what you're doing, you should be extracting virtually all of the spice. If spice is still coming through in your naphtha, then keep on pulling. The only way you're going to get a sub-par yield is if you throw your extraction away when there's still spice in it.
Click to expand...

So are you saying that there is no advantage to evapourating some of the naptha prior to freezing it?
Click to expand...

Where did you get that idea? :?
 
Hmmmm, i cant seem to find it now, but i did read a post on here somewhere which said that in order to get the greatest pulls, you should use excessive naptha and then evapourate that down to 10% of the original volume, and then freeze that.
Seems that no one else be doin that so il just stick to the normal way and not over complicate things aye
 
That'd get your spice in the fewest amount of pulls.

But I'd recommend a more patient approach. Use a minimal amount of hot naphtha, so that it's saturated enough to freeze-precip on all but your last pull or two.
 
Linga Sarira said:
I would like to know what the best temperature for heating the mixture and naptha as SWIM has gotten much more when the solvent was heated prior to being poured into the mix. Out of 100 grams of powdered MHRB and heating the naptha in a bath of just boiled water for about 5 mins, SWIM pulled about 1 gram of spice looking very white and pure in 3 pulls combined into 1 jar then frozen.

On the next attempt though, the solvent and spice came out too yellow which SWIM thinks is because the heating was too much and oils and fats came through into the solvent. The effects were just as strong as the white spice but after effects were a yucky oily throat feeling which tinted all the visuals with a yellowy cellophane effect, still very enjoyable though.:)
Click to expand...
Don't know the besty temperature but I generally heat at least one of my solvent pulls to 60-70 degrees C. You could heat it to higher temperatures but I don't have proper glassware & use a gas hob so I prefer not to to minimise fire risk.
I'd recommend heating the solvent but I agree it can yellow up the spice - you could do a sodium carbonate wash of the solvent to clean it up though.
 
Attention All Shipping said:
I'd recommend heating the solvent but I agree it can yellow up the spice - you could do a sodium carbonate wash of the solvent to clean it up though.
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Can someone please explain me how sodium carbonate wash cleans the spice?
 
Entropymancer said:
That'd get your spice in the fewest amount of pulls.

But I'd recommend a more patient approach. Use a minimal amount of hot naphtha, so that it's saturated enough to freeze-precip on all but your last pull or two.
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YES! Small pulls, many, many times, while reusing the naphtha has always give me higher yields than 3 big pulls. When your NP solvent pulls stop yielding, leave it in for a week or two and then switch to toulene, xylene, or DCM for your last couple of pulls. You'd be suprized at how much is left after 3 pulls with naphtha.
 
Infundibulum said:
Attention All Shipping said:
I'd recommend heating the solvent but I agree it can yellow up the spice - you could do a sodium carbonate wash of the solvent to clean it up though.
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Can someone please explain me how sodium carbonate wash cleans the spice?
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It will remove any amount of lye that might have been carried over my the DMT molecules (won't be much). There might be more to it than that, but it's always worked for me. It is pointless to do on the actual crystals, but works well when washing DMT laden Naphtha.

There is a difference between washed and unwashed in how harsh they are...at least that has been my experience.

Not sure exactly why, but sodium bicarb washes seem to take some of the yellow out as well.
 
Yeah, the water basically cleans out any compounds that are soluble in alkaline water... this will net any lye residue (and maybe a bit of other stuff?), but leaves the DMT in the nonpolar solvent. Since I don't think lye contamination is really much of an issue, I don't think it's really necessary. But it's certainly better than the ammonia wash if you're concerned about lye, because the lye is most likely to occur inside the crystals where the ammonia can't get to it.
 
Conventional theory would also say that doing a carbonate or bicarbonate wash will also wash away some dmt-n-oxide, which is slightly more water-soluble, thus resulting in whiter spice, as acolon finds.
 
SWIM just did a STB on 100g MHRB and was blown away by the yield!! In about 3 hours the yield was many times what he got doing an A/B extraction over a couple of days. I think part of the improvement was much more lye. Doing the A/B SWIM may have been "too smart" and using his digital ph meter thought that he was using enough when in reality he was short on the base. Also he believes that since he put it all in a crock pot this time the Naptha was held at a much higher temperature (not boiling but enough to steam a bit)and could hold that much more spice. Anyway, he can recrystallize and clean it up as much as he wants. Reading elsewhere there was talk that the "yellow" could very well be 5MEO and other alkaloids that are very desirable in themselves...not necessarily trash and can be seperated and savored by themselves. Cleaning them out may make the product less potent but more pure.
Cheers!!
 
memo said:
SWIM just did a STB on 100g MHRB and was blown away by the yield!! In about 3 hours the yield was many times what he got doing an A/B extraction over a couple of days. I think part of the improvement was much more lye.
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How much did SWIY manage to get?

Is there a general rule of thumb about knowing how much lye to use, some kind of simple formula or something. Im speaking for people who dont have the luxury of pH meters/papers
 
SWIM is still getting more precipitating out but it looks like he has at least 500mg now of nice crystals. The Noman's TEK indicates that a good rule of thumb for the STB method is 1gr lye per 1gr MHRB . That is what he did this time and it worked well. He is still going to do another 100ml solvent wash of the MHRB to make sure that he gets most if not all of the spice there.
 
OK thanks, will give that a try. But it just seems alot. If youve got 300gs of bark to use 300g of lye doesnt it?!!
 
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