McKenna Shamans ayahuasca>mushrooms

[Toshido]

How dare someone discriminate against entheogenic plants. If the ground done grew it, it gotta be good!

But, in defense of fungi, it's been around for 1.5 billion years.

Plants have been around for 425 million years.

Trees have been around for 385 million years, with the Acacia and Mimosa probably another 50 million years after that.

So in the grand scheme of time allowed for the evolution of psychoactive substances, mushrooms have had the longest time to perfect it.

 

[Mitakuye Oyasin]

Yep. Mushrooms cultivated this planet and allowed for plants and trees to grow. No mushrooms, no plants no life on planet Earth. Or at least no life or life forms like we are used to.
THANK YOU MUSHROOMS!!!!!

 

[Toshido]

Yep. Mushrooms cultivated this planet and allowed for plants and trees to grow. No mushrooms, no plants no life on planet Earth. Or at least no life or life forms like we are used to.
THANK YOU MUSHROOMS!!!!!

Yes, I believe in the earlier days when it was just rocks and water and single celled organisms. Mushrooms were what gave birth to SOIL.

 

[Mitakuye Oyasin]

Yes. And now, in an ironic twist, the mushrooms coerce humans into eating their mushroom penis in order to have a psychedelic experience. :shock:

TMK and his brother were convinced that the mushroom goes on its own psychedelic experience as it is consumed and integrated with human consciousness. Seems like we both (human & mushroom) benefit from this entheogenic relationship.

 

[Panpsychic]

This should be answered by Amazon shamans directly to exactly know what they meant, but I fully agree with the idea that ayahuasca is superior to mushrooms.

More powerful maybe; but superior I don't think one can say that. They each have their uses and value.

IMO caapi is main plant in the mix, it's the master or teacher plant, and this is both for any dmt plant or shrooms.
That is the reason why I ingest mushrooms exclusively in combination with caapi (psilohuasca).

I have yet to try Pilsohuasca but it would be interesting to compare it to Ayahuasca, just as it would be interesting to smoke or vape freebase psilocin to compare with DMT.

Interestingly in the above video McKenna says just before he talks about the Shamans views, that he had never and personally would never combine MAOI with mushrooms and that the shamans don't do it either, and that he thinks it would possibly be too strong. It's just a preference he had but interesting that the concept of psilohuasca essentially appears to be quite new.

Do we know what is the general attitude of Amazon people towards mushrooms? Maybe there is some mycophobic cultural factor involved.

I highly doubt it. Maria Sabina brought the sacred mushroom to modern attention and there is evidence of use for hundreds if not thousands of years in that part of the world.

 

[universecannotlogin]

I have immense respect for the ancestral traditions but it's important to keep in mind that throughout the world they always were making the best of what was available in their area. Mushrooms and aya/rue have been a huge part of my life but to be honest, with the techniques i'm working with now, the LSD/DMT combination has become far more coherent and useful of a tool personally. But they all have their pros and cons and different characteristics/uses.

 

[Panpsychic]

I have immense respect for the ancestral traditions but it's important to keep in mind that throughout the world they always were making the best of what was available in their area. Mushrooms and aya/rue have been a huge part of my life but to be honest, with the techniques i'm working with now, the LSD/DMT combination has become far more coherent and useful of a tool personally. But they all have their pros and cons and different characteristics/uses.

Can you elaborate a bit more about this combo and how you find it helpful?
I have tried them together maybe 2 or 3 times usually smoking DMT near the peak, and the hyper definition of the DMT combined with the visionary nature of the LSD is something, but I found the DMT kind of gets in the way of the narrative the LSD is showing and overrides it somewhat.

 

[Transform]

just as it would be interesting to smoke or vape freebase psilocin to compare with DMT

Quite an interesting proposition, although psilocin freebase is way too unstable for that to be viable. A psilocin salt - or even psilocybin - in e-juice might be the way to proceed here.

Incidentally, Jim Ketchum mentions in his seminal and highly entertaining work on chemical warfare research that LSD has approximately a third of the potency via inhalation as it would via the oral route, which was his own confirmation of earlier work by Zalkonian. It's not really possible to extrapolate this for psiloc(yb)in so tales of psilo-ejuice would be a welcome addition.

 

[universecannon]

Can you elaborate a bit more about this combo and how you find it helpful?
I have tried them together maybe 2 or 3 times usually smoking DMT near the peak, and the hyper definition of the DMT combined with the visionary nature of the LSD is something, but I found the DMT kind of gets in the way of the narrative the LSD is showing and overrides it somewhat.

I find DMT/changa to be the most coherent and useful psychedelic personally, but obviously it's short lived. LSD massively increases the duration for me, and I need much less DMT. Preferably in nature, with large singing bowls and another person.