Mescaline Crystals from Water, Vinegar and Ethanol

[cyantific]

This is a process to extract mescaline using water, acid and ethanol. The mescaline precipitates from the ethanol in an overnight cold crash. It takes a few days, and I'm not entirely sure why it works, but it does.

Water extraction #1 - One hour boil with 12# sliced cacti, and 3 gallons of water. No vinegar used. Cacti is acidic enough on the first boil to keep the ph below 7. After the boil, strain cacti through a mesh bag. Collect filtered liquid, and set aside.

Water extraction #2 - One hour boil with fresh water and 4 oz white vinegar. Collect filtered liquid from both extractions and fridge rest overnight.

Next day - decant fridge rest liquid and reduce on the stove for a few hours. Before it gets too thick, pour through a coffee filter. Then continue reducing until you have about 12 oz. Add this reduction to a silicone tray and dehydrate overnight in a food dehydrator.

Next day, collect the resin and add it to a glass jar with 80% ethanol and 20% water. (I used 100 ml ) The resin will immediately lighten and start to break apart. Use 190 proof Everclear which is 95% alcohol. Shake jar throughout the day and poke resin with a stainless chopstick.

The next day, pour the black liquid into a new jar and add more alcohol & water (another 100 ml) The resin will transform from hard black tar into a tan jelly-like blob. This is mostly polysaccharides which you will eventually throw away. 3 alcohol pulls on the resin may be necessary to completely break down the resin.

Carefully separate the alcohol leaving the fats behind. Add the alcohol jar to the fridge for 24 hrs and you will see mescaline crystals crash out at cold temps. Pour the contents of the jar through a coffee filter, the mescaline crystals will remain in the coffee filter. (first picture below)

Once crystals are dry, I wash with Ethyl Acetate which removes the stickiness and lightens the color. (picture 2)

1.5 grams from 12 pounds of Pachanoi

 

[modern]

Nice I assume the mescaline in mostly in the malate salt naturally so that may be the reason for the insolubility in the alcohol. The only issue I see with this is I don't believe all the mescaline is in a single salt form so some may remain soluble in the alcohol and another portion insoluble in the balck tar you remove. (I have zero idea on the amounts probably negotiable)

I'll try this salt next. I think if you freebase the tar you'll have better yield resalting.

 

[modern]

So just coming back to this 1.5g yield is actually pretty good assuming this is mostly pure mescaline... better than some of my yields.
Making a few assumptions you got a 0.55% yield malate which if converted to hcl would be around 0.36% yield hcl salt which I got around .39% recently.
Does seem like a lot of work but pretty good results.

 

[Transform]

So just coming back to this 1.5g yield is actually pretty good assuming this is mostly pure mescaline... better than some of my yields.
Making a few assumptions you got a 0.55% yield malate which if converted to hcl would be around 0.36% yield hcl salt which I got around .39% recently.
Does seem like a lot of work but pretty good results.

Do you think that using malic acid instead of vinegar might help in squeezing a bit more yield out of a cactus?

If it really is the malate, we'd also be looking at a (maybe not entirely) handy source of malic acid, which likely can be recovered from the M malate. It would entail something like acidifying with HCl, evaporating, and coaxing the malic acid away from the M hydrochloride with, perhaps, acetone.

 

[modern]

Do you think that using malic acid instead of vinegar might help in squeezing a bit more yield out of a cactus?

If it really is the malate, we'd also be looking at a (maybe not entirely) handy source of malic acid, which likely can be recovered from the M malate. It would entail something like acidifying with HCl, evaporating, and coaxing the malic acid away from the M hydrochloride with something like acetone.

ZERO IDEA I haven't attempted this yet. I don't even know the solubilities of these but I assume malic acid is soluble in alcohol and the malate isn't.

I really like using HCL to free the acids and just washing it away very easy step

I did buy some malic acid to mess around with in the future playing with different alkaloids and testing solubility. Assuming this is malate atleast it doesn't have the same issue with water as citrate which is a big plus. Sofar oxalic acid is my favorite and will likely be my go to for all extractions just doing a conversion with HCL or even keeping it as is since I don't have issues with kidney stones.

 

[Transform]

A simpler approach to boosting malic acid content (besides buying the stuff) might be just to throw some pieces of sour apple, or pouring sour apple juice, into the brew - although why or if you'd ever have sour apples in Brazil is beyond me

 

[cyantific]

Nice I assume the mescaline in mostly in the malate salt naturally so that may be the reason for the insolubility in the alcohol.

Forgot to check back in here... I figured the crystals were mescaline acetate, since 4oz of acetic acid was used in the tea. Any idea if M. acetate is soluble in cold ethanol?

 

[modern]

Forgot to check back in here... I figured the crystals were mescaline acetate, since 4oz of acetic acid was used in the tea. Any idea if M. acetate is soluble in cold ethanol? The only issue I see with this is I don't believe all the mescaline is in a single salt form so some may remain soluble in the alcohol and another portion insoluble in the balck tar you remove. (I have zero idea on the amounts probably negotiable)

I don't believe so... Also from my understanding unless you used very concentrated vinegar you won't convert all the salts to acetate (some will I assume)
It could be that you dropped the solubility enough in the cold ethanol but seems unlikely... Try to replicate it... If in a few months you don't I'll try it myself but will be a long time.

Your yield may be reflecting only a single salt and there may or maynot be more in the tar... I'm not the strongest on chemistry so wait for someone else to respond but Many early attempts at extractions centered around vinegar to form acetate... I'm sure someone would have tested the solubility HOWEVER since it took 2 days? for you maybe most give up too soon?

 

[modern]

So I didn't measure anything but have approximately 1g+ freebase mescaline via calcium hydroxide pulled with ethanol 96% in 30ml. Then I made a solution of ethanol with 1/2 tablespoon malic acid in 15ml. It took a while but shaking it all dissolved. I poured into the mescaline solution and a clouding originally formed but after stirring never returned. I added in total 2 tablespoons to the 50ml ethanol solution so fairly high amount of malic acid but not saturated. I shook and stirred and all dissolved. The solution was a bit cloudy to start but now a transparent amber color.

I reread this thread and have now added the solution to the fridge. I'll leave it this week in the fridge checking daily if any crystals crash... If after 2-3 days no crystals I'll add to freezer to test.

I did read the old reports on mescaline malate and a single post did mention it is insoluble in alcohol but no real other info like amounts/solubility how they obtained. Was an obscure post on an extract without using any solvents acids or bases. This I think is where the idea of mescaline malate being the natural salt form in cactus originated. Personally I believe it is found in ALL the acids that are found in cacti... citric, malic, succ... maybe there is a preference to malic however I HAVE ZERO IDEA.

I'll update in a week or so.

 

[modern]

So moved to freezer and no real change in amount of precipitate that formed. I left it 2 days in the freezer and removed today. I left 1 day in fridge “day of first post”.

I’ll evaporate a portion of the ethanol malic acid solution then refreeze to see if more precipitate forms. The thing I see here is similar to the content drop I get from excessively washing hcl crystals. I assume this is around 200-300mg (based on past experience not visual) I’ll weigh later.

So my solution is much higher ethanol solution which I assume is better than 80% in OP? I’ll evaporate 50% of the solution to see if it helps or not.

 

[modern]

So after scraping the beaker it does look like more than I expected and perhaps a viable option? I’ll leave it a day or so on filter paper drying. If it is around 1.5-1.7g I’ll be shocked. the crystals are more dense than I expected just looking at the beaker.

Who knows maybe a great path just requires extra work cooking down to a tar would be best path. Then lime freebase with minimal water and pull with ethanol 96. Then add enough malic acid to make acidic.. I probably added excess with 2 teaspoons per 60ml not 2 tablespoons. Stir until all dissolved and add to fridge or freezer.

This was from already extracted mescaline but based on OP it seems possible.

 

[modern]

So does this work? Yes the issue is the solubility seems to prevent all from precipitating. I actually got close to my estimate.
The alcohol solution precipitated more malate without fridge so maybe just takes a long time? There should still be close to 1g of malate in the solution.

I’ll test the solubility of the first precipitate in iso and water as well as 80% and 40% ethanol solutions. Water has a lower solubility for malic acid than ethanol from my search. Also some malate salts are insoluble in water like magnesium malate. Maybe this is similar to oxalate?

Edit: some sources say it is soluble but other’s insoluble in water…magnesium malate

 

[modern]

So mescaline malate is insoluble in water and slightly in alcohol? I'll need to test my precipitate since it is entirely possible it is something else like calcium malate?

IDK if this is indeed mescaline malate this would be the easiest extraction possible. Lime -> Vodka -> Filter -> Malic Acid -> wait a few days and done. Could be done in a ceilo type style or from a tar. Don't need everclear since better precipitation from 40% alcohol. Malic acid is the hardest thing to obtain I'd think but easy to buy online.

First is the precipitate in water... next I added more water to alcohol and more cloudy and precipitating more... last is 40% alcohol which precipitates as well.

CALM tek cactus, alcohol, lime, malic acid

EDIT: calcium malate seems to be slightly soluble in water and soluble in alcohol so this is likely NOT calcium malate.

 

[1Starway7]

This is a process to extract mescaline using water, acid and ethanol. The mescaline precipitates from the ethanol in an overnight cold crash. It takes a few days, and I'm not entirely sure why it works, but it does.

Water extraction #1 - One hour boil with 12# sliced cacti, and 3 gallons of water. No vinegar used. Cacti is acidic enough on the first boil to keep the ph below 7. After the boil, strain cacti through a mesh bag. Collect filtered liquid, and set aside.

Water extraction #2 - One hour boil with fresh water and 4 oz white vinegar. Collect filtered liquid from both extractions and fridge rest overnight.

Next day - decant fridge rest liquid and reduce on the stove for a few hours. Before it gets too thick, pour through a coffee filter. Then continue reducing until you have about 12 oz. Add this reduction to a silicone tray and dehydrate overnight in a food dehydrator.

Next day, collect the resin and add it to a glass jar with 80% ethanol and 20% water. (I used 100 ml ) The resin will immediately lighten and start to break apart. Use 190 proof Everclear which is 95% alcohol. Shake jar throughout the day and poke resin with a stainless chopstick.

The next day, pour the black liquid into a new jar and add more alcohol & water (another 100 ml) The resin will transform from hard black tar into a tan jelly-like blob. This is mostly polysaccharides which you will eventually throw away. 3 alcohol pulls on the resin may be necessary to completely break down the resin.

Carefully separate the alcohol leaving the fats behind. Add the alcohol jar to the fridge for 24 hrs and you will see mescaline crystals crash out at cold temps. Pour the contents of the jar through a coffee filter, the mescaline crystals will remain in the coffee filter. (first picture below)

Once crystals are dry, I wash with Ethyl Acetate which removes the stickiness and lightens the color. (picture 2)

1.5 grams from 12 pounds of Pachanoi

This is interesting.... if it really works...using only ..water /vinegar/alcohol...
Ive tryed it with ....exylene...that stuff stinks soo much.. and all that cactus goo..what a mess...

ive tryed the ..[easy three step mescaline extraction citrate method] with not much success....

04281969 Hobbyist https://www.shroomery.org/forums/viewratings.php?type=1&usernum=162192 Registered: 08/09/06 Posts: 1,406

Re: Easy Three Step Mescaline Citrate [Re: Gastronomicus] #9693489 - 01/28/09 09:22 AM (16 years, 2 months ago)​

Yea, the excess HCl should evaporate off. The main safety issue with HCl is the chlorine fumes. This is an A/B extraction like the others out there. I just wanted to tailor it specifically for citric acid. No figuring or calculating necessary, just follow the directions. If you are going to change it, do your homework. The only real advantage of making citrate over HCl is that you can crystallize the end product while making it to achieve a relativly pure product instread of having to REcrystallize after it evaporates. Edited by 04281969 (01/30/09 08:35 AM) ​ Extras:

 

[modern]

So my ninhydrin went bad I think since it is yellow solution now... I should get a proper reagent but sulfuric acid is hard to get now to make them

This may be similar to the oxlate where first the calcium salt drops this second precipitate is shiny unlike the first. But I still think it is in the solution....

So I may try adding vinegar to make a mescaline malic acetate or some other form... I doubt that acetate is the form in OP but maybe I am wrong?

I'll probably have to redo this making malate via xylene or with my remaining ethyl acetate and retest the solubility.

 

[doubledog]

I think that crystals in OP are some kind of inactive material, maybe malic acid itself.

 

[modern]

The crystals I got from precipitate in my experiment seem to be calcium malate... I'm now evaporating the alcohol solution. Hopefully even if only a few ml remaining it crystalizes out... Old nexus post shows it MAY be possible but there was never any follow up or attempts by others. So maybe will not work with alcohol...

 

[modern]

So after a week the alcohol solution evaporated enough that it precipitated a large amount of mescaline malate? And likely some malic acid. This was from unwashed mescaline hcl so can’t be much else.

I’ll probably get my last bit of ethyl acetate to wash this in hope to see how pure it is.

The alcohol became a thin syrup like thickness and tastes like sour apple so I know malic acid is still in solution but I did use an excess amount of this likely has some

 

[modern]

So fairly certain the orange crystals are the mescaline malate since as more alcohol evaporated it became a very fine and white micro crystal.

In theory I should have 1.4g max probably a little less. I got two other acids to test using this exact method so hopefully They’ll do better.

Solubility is around roughly 100mg/ml so for small yeilds this isn’t viable option. This is a rough estimate. Also this was from a pure extract so may behave differently with pulling from cactus.

 

[modern]

So I still need to test this since my ninhydrin has gone bad it will need to be a bioassay. The malate salt is almost completely dry now and is almost exactly the theoretical value of the complete conversion of the 1g HCL salts.
So this should be tested by someone using cactus material but I think the solubility is just too high so I won't reattempt. I'll be trying other salts using the 96 ethanol or lower amounts if successful.