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Mescaline FASA tech mystery substance.

Migrated topic.
About to precipitate some mescaline salt out using anhydrous acid saturated acetone. I may do HCl because I haven't the slightest clue where my wee bottle of fumaric acid got off to. Narmz in another thread reported that using fumaric acid takes days to precipitate from d-limonene, is the same true for xylene? Has anyone left it around for an extra while to see if anything came out?

But my primary question involves xylene. According to Tregar at mycotopia Xylene holds 1-2 ml of water per liter. He also says that very small amount will cause the salting (done by HCl gassing) to produce dirty crystals whereas using it dried will cause much cleaner crystals to precipitate. Is it at all necessary or important to dry the xylene before salting? Or does it just cause an extra cleaning step? Or no perceptible change at all?

Has anyone done tests to see how soluble various salts are in water? When using say 2400 ml of xylene the only loss would be to the to 2.5-5 ml of water and not interfere with the salting in any other way? This guy references a paper claiming freebase mescaline is soluble in water at 84.1mg/ml -- the wiki entry says freebase is "moderately soluble" while a number of the salts are just "soluble", which I imagine means more than moderately? So is there significant loss (>85-170 mg per liter of xylene) here? Can anyone with some salted mescaline do room temp water solubility tests?

Vaguely related question: anybody have a rough idea how much 30% HCl solution is sufficient to salt out alkaloids from 250g of fairly potent cactus? Sorry for all the questions!
 
Uh, actually fumaric acid salts don't take ages to precipitate from limonene at all; have a search on the forum for my video "precipitating fumarates".

Firstly though are you really going to evaporate a litre of xylene? 1-2ml per litre is not a lot, but if you can dry it, do so. I remember using magnesium sulphate back in uni days... ahh hydrophobic-e-ness!!

As for solubiliy of salts in various solvents - this is some data i've been looking for for a while and if i'm correct, a gap in the community knowledge.. Check the wiki, can't remember ever seeing a beautiful table with that data but this might help.

Psychedelic Compounds Chemical and Physical Properties - DMT-Nexus Wiki
 
Your video shows DMT fumarate precipitating, yes? I mean mescaline fumarate taking days to precip in dlimo. I also do not plan to evaporate any xylene -- I was just going to dry it, crash it out, and then either save for more pulls or dispose, depending on how it looks. Perhaps I'll do half dried and half not dried and compare yields and quality and such.
 
Not to dig up an old thread, but rather than start a new one i thought this would be a good place to ask about an idea i have.

Lets say you made a tea from pedro/torch/bridgesii/whatever, and evaporated it to a resin, getting it bone dry using heat or dessicants. You used fumaric acid, or hcl acid in your boils to ensure the mesc salts would be either fumarates or hcl.

Then you took that resin, washed it 2x with cold dry acetone, to remove fats/oils, leaving the mescaline salts behind. Then you freebased the washed resin with lime and a bit of water and dried that out all the way again. Pull with dry acetone and salt out with fasa.

Perhaps this might be better than using limo, xylene, etc that precipitates fumaric acid in the absence of mescaline in the solvent. The acetone will hold any excess fumaric acid, and assuming its dry it should precipitate mescaline fumarate crystals.

In summary, has anyone tried salting mescaline fb out of acetone with fasa?
 
The Day Tripper said:
In summary, has anyone tried salting mescaline fb out of acetone with fasa?
Click to expand...


it seems to me that the best way to do this would be to use warm acetone and add fasa or fasi, then let the acetone return to room temperature

i like this idea, please give it a go, if not ill get to it eventually

there are many perks to doing it this way around!
if it dosent work with fasi/fasa ( i havent had much luck salting with fumeric in the past) perhaps hcl or acetic could be attempted


peace
 
after reading the mescaline extraction thread 69ron reports failure to precipitate mescaline from acetone by adding fasa....


a couple of thoughts... whats the verdict on the solubility of mescaline fumarate in acetone? it seems insoluable otherwise it wouldnt precipitate out with fasa, right?

doing washes with acetone would take alot of acetone to remove a fumaric acid as fumaric acid isnt even that soluable, however if the contamination ratio is minimal it may be just fine


about how much fumaric acid can dissolve in rt dry acetone?
 
Well, after a big/lazy month long ipa soak on 75g of bridgesii chips, i made a resin. Dissolved that resin in acetic acid/distilled water, filtered and reduced to 200ml.

This was basified with 15g koh, and ~75ml of limo was added. It was shaken, repeated, and left overnight to decant the cloudyish limo. Pulled the limo in the morning and salted with ~8% hcl/distilled water ~28ml 2x. Solution was orange/yellow (water phase, and yielded a decent amount of brown/orange super dirty sanchez resin/goo when evaporated.

This was dried, and washed with anhydrous acetone a few times. The insolubles were dissolved in distilled water, evaporated, and washed again. All acetone washes were kept and evaporated. Nothing unusual here, decent yields i might add (300mg washed first pull).

Now when things got interesting, i took that washing acetone, put it on a hotplate and let it sit/evap until it was a goo. Then i washed this goo with warm heptane, which brought off a murky yellow heptane.

Concentrated koh was then added to the goo, (~700mg koh, ml or two of water), and stirred/left to react for 30m. Then mgso4 was added to give a crumbly paste, still slightly wet.

This was put on the hotplate, and ~10ml of limo was added, it was stirred, and the limo was decanted off ~15m later still warm through a glass pipette w/ a cotton plug at the tip to filter it.

The dark orange/yellow, but transparent limo, was put into a 15ml vial, and ~5ml of dry fasa was added. Precipitation occurred, and a control was done with the same limo/fasa to ensure its not just fumaric acid precipitating, no precipitation on the clean limo/fasa.

So here's what i think, theres alkaloids in bridgesii(torch/pedro too mabey), other than mesc hcl, that are soluble in dry acetone as the hcl salts (all acetone was kept in closed containers with mgso4/naso4, all came from same batch). This was why i wanted to try this in the first place, as i suspected there was actives being lost in the acetone washes from dirty hcl's. Hydroscobic/hard to dry actives. Perhaps the fumarates precipitate very nicely vs. hcl water salting to a goo/washing with acetone.

Either way, after its done crystallizing/decanting overnight, ill decant off the limo and acetone in the morning, then wash these mystery fumarates with dry acetone. Then dissolve in dh20 and evap. If its a solid crystalline bitter, it will confirm my speculations that some hcl alkaloids from cactus are soluble in dry acetone, while the fumarates can be precipitated out of limo/fasa.

If this means more weight/effects full spectrum crystalline alkaloid extracts, then :thumb_up:. Perhaps fumarates are the way to go if you do acetone washes on your hcl salts, and wish for a more full spectrum/thorough extraction of the alkaloids.

Heres a pic of the limo/fasa vial-

20120924001.jpg
 
These are neat findings Day Tripper.:thumb_up:

So what it sounds like possibly if these are actives, in order to create a more full spectrum experience while cleaning out the nasty impurities, one would simply wash the end hcl product with a nonpolar like heptane, basify and pull into limo, and then fasa to precip all of the cleaned alks. This would give a greater yeild and fuller experience compared to plain acetone-washed hcl.
 
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