Mescaline Fumarate Details

[biopsylo]

the fumaric acid used is more granular/crystalline and is sour tasting.

the fumarate pulled from the dlimo and collected on filter paper when dried acts like talc, and is very bitter.

the fasipa was in jar with dlimo for 1.5 days?

nothing further has come out over some days.

adding more fasipa may yield more

 

[biopsylo]

addition of more fasipa to limo did not produce any clouding or precipitates.

limo was washed with fasw awaiting evap.

100mg of white talc like fumarate is indeed quite active

 

[Infundibulum]

More on mescaline fumarate there, especially pages 3-5.

SWIM had found then mescaline fumarate to be very powdery, weighting less than it seems, to take a long tiem to crash out of xylene/FASA mixtures and I think 69ron had also shown for mescaline fumarate to be soluble in acetone? This was from two years ago!

I applaud that people are havign a fresh take on mescaline fumarate but you're re-inventing the wheel . SWIM was not impressed with the mescaline fumarate thing back then, but will keep his eyes and ears open, hopefully better innovations will come.

 

[narmz]

SWIM thinks Ron was wrong, his tests show mescaline fumarate to be very insoluble in acetone.

 

[Infundibulum]

SWIM thinks Ron was wrong, his tests show mescaline fumarate to be very insoluble in acetone.

This is a great observation then, SWIM initially thought that mescaline fumarate would be insoluble in acetone (in the same manner as dmt fumarate) till ron came with the staatement. One question though, how did SWIY do the solubility tests?

And how about the activity? SWIM got the idea when he played with mesc.fumarate that it is less active by weight (assuming that mesc. fumarate comsists of a 2:1 mescaline to fumarate molecules). This put him off this area of research back then. But he didn't do many bioassays for a definite conclusion.

 

[narmz]

It is definitely active at a similar dosage to mescaline hcl, if it indeed bonds to 2 mescaline molecules, it is 91% as potent, which makes it one of the most potent salts of mescaline there is. More so than citrate and sulfate as far as SWIM knows.

The solubility tests were basically done by trying out various solvents at the washing stage, MEK, Acetone, and IPA all seemed to work as cleaning solvents. Evapped the remainder and found the product to taste like fumaric acid and limo. SWIM thinks IPA may dissolve a small amount of mescaline fumarates, but he is not entirely sure, he lets his limonene/IPA mixture sit with the lid open after salting to allow some of the IPA to evap and more fumaric acid/mesc fumarate seems to fall out.

 

[biopsylo]

another small pull on the same cactus tea yielded 160mg. this was washed with acetone and ipa several times.
probably more to pull.

 

[landfishd]

Hey Narmz you mentioned that you let the jar sit without the lid? Will this not introduce any water from the atmosphere?

I have been trying this out for the last couple of days, and it is my first attempt at a mescaline extraction. I sucked pretty bad... Way more difficult than a DMT extraction for me. I had really bad emulsions probably mostly from very bad filtration of the cacti crap from the tea. (or maybe it was just a fatty layer?) Anyway most of my limo was stuck in there I lost like 2/3 of it. So I let it sit for a while, I put it in a very hot water bath (too bad no vibrator to help me out ) Then that didn't work so I froze it then thawed it out while stirring a little bit. This seemed to do the trick and a lot more limo was retrieved.

I was impatient though, I know patience is virtue with this stuff.. So while the basic solution and limo was in the freezer I took what limo I had already and attempted to salt whatever mesc might have been in there. Today I saw some precipitants and attempted to get them out! They just filtered right through the coffee filter so maybe I need a thicker filter I am not sure. Or maybe it was just fumaric acid and no mesc. I don't know but I added more FASI and I salted the new limo that I finally got out of the basic water. I kept these separate for whatever reason. I will post back here in a couple days to share results.. In the meantime what do you guys use to filter the fumarate out of the limo? or do you just pour most of it out and let the rest evaporate?

Thanks for any input.

 

[Thebatman]

so the resulting product IS water soluble? and CAN be recrystallized in water(if so, distilled? or is tap acceptable?)

 

[biopsylo]

the fumarate was a whispy precipitate, like a thick cloud, but obviously very fine powder. the limo was carefully and slowly poured thru a coffee filter trying to get the fumarate to collect in a small area of the filter. used more limo if necessary to rinse it into a small area. the filter was put in a dehydrator at 105 deg f. then it flaked off very nicely.

 

[endlessness]

What about doing FASW instead of FASI, then evapping the water and recrystallizing (or washing) with acetone to remove excess fumaric acid? (considering it is indeed insoluble in acetone as narmz points)

 

[biopsylo]

would be interesting to see what fasw would look like after evap. but the nice thing about this tek is that white powder/crystals precip out of limo.

now a question that comes to mind is what about the goo/resin/tar?? this step is skipped.
with acetate or even hcl, there is that intermediate step where in the case of san pedro, the mesc is separated from the non mesc alkaloids.

where are the non mesc alks in this fumarate tek?:?:

 

[narmz]

The non-mesc alks don't appear to crash out as fumarates, this is consistent with other teks that salt directly out of solution, like the anhydrous acetone hcl salting method. Bio-assays of the product pretty conclusively show that it is mesc and not the more sedating sister-alks present in the product.

FASW should work just as well, may require a bit more washing however.

Usually if you let it precip enough, decantation is enough and you don't have to resort to using filter papers or anything like that.

 

[biopsylo]

so then are the sister alks still in the limo? is it possible to isolate them?

another round is in the works, this time using fresh cactus boiled as whole slices. larger precipitates of white crystalline formations at the bottom of the limo.

 

[biopsylo]

ok, so this is a little strange-- filtered out the precips from last extraction, and they were pink(ish).
after drying they became a little more orangy, but scraping residue off the inside of the jar -its pink!

whitened up with washes.

unfortunately, after running about 600ml of limo thru the base water, only around 130mg were collected:?
that was a really healthy and heavy specimen, too.

so far dried pieces are producing better--would not have thought so.

 

[q21q21]

The non-mesc alks don't appear to crash out as fumarates, this is consistent with other teks that salt directly out of solution, like the anhydrous acetone hcl salting method. Bio-assays of the product pretty conclusively show that it is mesc and not the more sedating sister-alks present in the product.

FASW should work just as well, may require a bit more washing however.

Usually if you let it precip enough, decantation is enough and you don't have to resort to using filter papers or anything like that.

This is very interesting, anyone know that scientific reason? Are there non-crystalized sedative-alkaloid-fumurates in a goo at the bottom cause they don't crystalize or do they just stay completely in the solution.

Even theory or conjecture would be great, this is strongly interestingly confusing cause most of my science knowledge is based from doing teks and researching terms on google.

SWIM is going to try this sometime soon, he is still working his first try one resin->mescaline using sodium carbonate, d-limonene and vinegar.

if that works well he'll do the same but with the anhydrous FASA he prepared and post pics if he is successful.

 

[biopsylo]

so there in the interface between the limonene and the cactus base water is a thin whispy even sedimentary layer of white stuff.

effort was made to gather this layer along with the limo into another jar, where it falls out of the limo to the bottom. there is also a couple drops of water in the jar as well. now normally mag sulfate would be added to adsorb the water, but the feeling is that this layer will be lost with the mag sulfate.

can any one speculate what this white sedimentary layer could be?

 

[cker]

SWIM saw that as well and thought it might be cellulose. Phlux's acetone bomb tek here shows there's inactive white material in tea.

 

[biopsylo]

^^ interesting about the cellulose theory. after multiple pulls, the basified tea is separating in its own forming thick yellow precips.

3 pulls on a new batch of tea plus another pull from 2 older batches was combined.

this makes 700ml limo in a jar. when taking the pulls, the limo is very cloudy. after sitting in the jar by itself, the limo is clearing, leaving a large amount of white precipitate.

this will be separated before adding mag sulfate or fasipa.

 

[Madcap]

NARMZ!!!!!

Your name will ring out as my new battle-cry! . . . . . Assuming bioassay is as impressive as the blizzard of fumarate falling from a hazy green cloud in my mason jar!


F-yeah!