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Mescaline Fumarate Details
- Thread starter narmz
- Start date
biopsylo
Rising Star
Madcap said:
i tried fase with spice, and it seemed to work very nicely, although it was suggested that spice may be somewhat soluble in ethanol. do you have dry ethanol? if so, you could try dissolving some of your purified mesc fumarate in it. of course weigh before and after, and evap the ethanol wash to see whats left.
Madcap
illudium Q-36
So.....
First pull yielded 1068 mg (un cleaned) recovered from 200g starting material (dried).
100g that just arrived and 100g that has been in the fridge for a few months.
69ron style Drytek'd each 100g separately but decided to combine the limo to dry and salt.
The 2nd pulls were combined , dried and salted too. But, have not been filtered and weighed.
Hopefully, today excess Fumaric acid will be removed from the whole lot.
The product so far smells a little limoneney and is bitter as all get down. It looks so much more awesome than even the cleanest acetate.
A section of fresh torch was despined, filleted, dried and powdered yielding 40g of green flesh powder. The limo is drying now and will be salted after breakfast. There is excitement because this is the first 1 from the garden that has gone drytek.
The extraction talked about above will be the last one that's not from the garden or live cuttings.
First pull yielded 1068 mg (un cleaned) recovered from 200g starting material (dried).
100g that just arrived and 100g that has been in the fridge for a few months.
69ron style Drytek'd each 100g separately but decided to combine the limo to dry and salt.
The 2nd pulls were combined , dried and salted too. But, have not been filtered and weighed.
Hopefully, today excess Fumaric acid will be removed from the whole lot.
The product so far smells a little limoneney and is bitter as all get down. It looks so much more awesome than even the cleanest acetate.
A section of fresh torch was despined, filleted, dried and powdered yielding 40g of green flesh powder. The limo is drying now and will be salted after breakfast. There is excitement because this is the first 1 from the garden that has gone drytek.
The extraction talked about above will be the last one that's not from the garden or live cuttings.
maybe FASW + ipa/acetone wash to remove fumaric contamination would be easier than FASI ?
what do you mean little success and difficult, Ipoma
what do you mean little success and difficult, Ipoma
Madcap
illudium Q-36
In case its not clear to those who review this thread
Salting with FASI works awesome, mesc fumarate is great stuff.
Not sure it'd be worth the trouble of switching from hcl, but if you have a ton of fumaric acid (and you probably do) there is no reason to go out buying hcl)
Salting with FASI works awesome, mesc fumarate is great stuff.
Not sure it'd be worth the trouble of switching from hcl, but if you have a ton of fumaric acid (and you probably do) there is no reason to go out buying hcl)
Red Eclipse
Rising Star
Where would one buy 99% IPA without ordering online? A crafts store maybe..? Not sure, I've only seen 91% in supermarkets. I read somewhere that ISO-HEET was good enough for extraction, but not perhaps washing steps?
I found this MSDS: Sheet 0055120 | Imperial Supplies
Also, if one had no access to 99%IPA,
would 2x anhydrous MEK & 2X anhydrous acetone wash suffice to remove most of the excess fumaric acid?
I found this MSDS: Sheet 0055120 | Imperial Supplies
Also, if one had no access to 99%IPA,
would 2x anhydrous MEK & 2X anhydrous acetone wash suffice to remove most of the excess fumaric acid?
Madcap
illudium Q-36
Im really thinking that 99% may not need to be further dried. The gerbil realized that he should probably be washing his dlimo with FASW to get all the hold-out goodies anyway. So that rogue ~1% isn't going to cause too much trouble in the long term.
The gerbil is usually pretty good about adding anhydrous mag sulphate to the container whenever he gets new solvent, so decanting sometimes months later...is pretty easy.
Recent attempt to filter the desiccant proved to be difficult du to the powder being so fine. I think a more coarse grind would be less efficient but way easier to filter in the case that you don't have time to wait for things to settle and decant.
The gerbil is usually pretty good about adding anhydrous mag sulphate to the container whenever he gets new solvent, so decanting sometimes months later...is pretty easy.
Recent attempt to filter the desiccant proved to be difficult du to the powder being so fine. I think a more coarse grind would be less efficient but way easier to filter in the case that you don't have time to wait for things to settle and decant.
mew
huachumancer
mesc fumarate is an isolation of mescaline and perhaps mescaline like alkaloids yet when using fasipa in limonene there seems to be a lack of sedative mescaline related alkaloids precipitated. my query is how to best extract these "other" compounds.
considering the "other alkaloids" saturate the limonene which is mixed with dry iso, adding an aqueous salt might not work so well, or it may, im not sure.
if the alcohol prohibits the separation of aqueous phase because of its polarity it might be pertinent to vaporize the alcohol through heat. considering the boiling point of orange oil is most likely higher (source) the ipa will easily boil off before the dlimo. hypothetically the solution when exposed to increasing heat will boil twice, once for the alcohol and if the heat continues to increase eventually a second boil will begin, which would be the vaporization of the dlimo.
so after the first boil has ceased (with continued consistent heat), one could assume the dlimo is absent of ipa (as it is higher than the boiling point of ipa yet lower than the bp of dlimo). hypothetically returning the dlimo to its previous characteristics (non polarity/pka/viscosity/etc)
now that the dlimo would be saturated only with "other alkaloids" and they could be salted through liquid liquid extraction utilizing vinegar as the aqueous phase.
if every works as suggested the extraction would yield mesc fumarates and other acetates separatively, both of which could be cleaned up later with various techniques
considering the "other alkaloids" saturate the limonene which is mixed with dry iso, adding an aqueous salt might not work so well, or it may, im not sure.
if the alcohol prohibits the separation of aqueous phase because of its polarity it might be pertinent to vaporize the alcohol through heat. considering the boiling point of orange oil is most likely higher (source) the ipa will easily boil off before the dlimo. hypothetically the solution when exposed to increasing heat will boil twice, once for the alcohol and if the heat continues to increase eventually a second boil will begin, which would be the vaporization of the dlimo.
so after the first boil has ceased (with continued consistent heat), one could assume the dlimo is absent of ipa (as it is higher than the boiling point of ipa yet lower than the bp of dlimo). hypothetically returning the dlimo to its previous characteristics (non polarity/pka/viscosity/etc)
now that the dlimo would be saturated only with "other alkaloids" and they could be salted through liquid liquid extraction utilizing vinegar as the aqueous phase.
if every works as suggested the extraction would yield mesc fumarates and other acetates separatively, both of which could be cleaned up later with various techniques
I don't feel like this post I'm writing is worth it's own thread. I also like when old useful threads from years ago pop back into the present 
I did essentially the same thing as outlined in the initial post. I pulled with minimal toluene instead of limonene. I had 50ml of greenish yellow toluene in the end, to which I added 50ml of FASI through a small funnel stuffed with cotton. Immediately the alkaloids crashed out and settled into some lovely fumarates. Settling took about 2 hours, no further clouding or settling was observed.
I had to catch the alks in a coffee filter, then add drops of distilled water once the filter dried to rinse them through. This removed a lot of insoluble impurities. I din't feel like leaving a single milligram in the paper. Too precious. Next I dried the mesc water in a dish with a fan.
I like this because of the fact that I don't have to use strong acids and it involves IPA which means that some of the non-mesc alks are left behind (I assume this as IPA is used to remove other alks). I also don't have to spend extra time separating HCL solutions from solvents. Not bad.
EDIT*
Question... does MEK dissolve any amount of fumaric acid? This thread mentions using a mix of MEK, Acetone and IPA to clean mesc HCL : Mescaline HCl purification - Preparation - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus . One problem with cleaning it this way is that it's only as effective as the exposed surface area of the product. Maximum solvent to alkaloid contact occurs when they are in solution, as each molecule is exposed. So could one not precipitate fumarates and clean them of all other non-mesc alks in one easy step with a mix of fumaric acid saturated MEK/acetone/IPA for the salting ?
I did essentially the same thing as outlined in the initial post. I pulled with minimal toluene instead of limonene. I had 50ml of greenish yellow toluene in the end, to which I added 50ml of FASI through a small funnel stuffed with cotton. Immediately the alkaloids crashed out and settled into some lovely fumarates. Settling took about 2 hours, no further clouding or settling was observed.
I had to catch the alks in a coffee filter, then add drops of distilled water once the filter dried to rinse them through. This removed a lot of insoluble impurities. I din't feel like leaving a single milligram in the paper. Too precious. Next I dried the mesc water in a dish with a fan.
I like this because of the fact that I don't have to use strong acids and it involves IPA which means that some of the non-mesc alks are left behind (I assume this as IPA is used to remove other alks). I also don't have to spend extra time separating HCL solutions from solvents. Not bad.
EDIT*
Question... does MEK dissolve any amount of fumaric acid? This thread mentions using a mix of MEK, Acetone and IPA to clean mesc HCL : Mescaline HCl purification - Preparation - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus . One problem with cleaning it this way is that it's only as effective as the exposed surface area of the product. Maximum solvent to alkaloid contact occurs when they are in solution, as each molecule is exposed. So could one not precipitate fumarates and clean them of all other non-mesc alks in one easy step with a mix of fumaric acid saturated MEK/acetone/IPA for the salting ?
pete666
Esteemed member
Interesting idea. I don't have any experience with fumaric acid solubility in MEK, but my two cents...
I have never tried FASI or FASA with mescaline, though it is my preferred way for dmt. But with dmt I do STB with mini-A/B (dmt HCl) and subsequent FASA. For mescaline the solubility of alkaloids in the water is higher, so I have tried to avoid the extra water/non-polar cycle (and loss) with mini-A/B.
If you precipitate mescaline directly from toluene without previous mini-A/B (like in my case of dmt), you will have to cope with more impurities while precipitating, which would be left behind if you did mini-A/B, or at least mini-A when back-salting..
As I have written in the mentioned post describing purification of mescaline HCl, the most important seem to be acetone and ipa. Mek is just an addition, but it doesn't seem to be essential.
Be aware that the solubility of various alkaloids can be different for their HCl and fumarate forms.
I have never tried FASI or FASA with mescaline, though it is my preferred way for dmt. But with dmt I do STB with mini-A/B (dmt HCl) and subsequent FASA. For mescaline the solubility of alkaloids in the water is higher, so I have tried to avoid the extra water/non-polar cycle (and loss) with mini-A/B.
If you precipitate mescaline directly from toluene without previous mini-A/B (like in my case of dmt), you will have to cope with more impurities while precipitating, which would be left behind if you did mini-A/B, or at least mini-A
when back-salting.. As I have written in the mentioned post describing purification of mescaline HCl, the most important seem to be acetone and ipa. Mek is just an addition, but it doesn't seem to be essential.
Be aware that the solubility of various alkaloids can be different for their HCl and fumarate forms.