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Mescaline + MAOI safe?

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Twilight Person

Twilight Person

Esteemed member
So after making quite a good search on the internet I got the answers mostly in accordance that you can combine Cacti + Harmalas.

Reason would be Harmalas only inhibit MAO-B and as Mescaline is a non-amphetamine, but "regular" PEA it will be broken down by MAO-A & MAO-B and thus a critically high amount of Serotonin would not build up.

Furthermore there have been a lot of stories of intrinsic MAOI of cacti anyways, even though maybe not as potent as Harmala alkaloids.

Obviously it condenses down to the same harm reduction principles as ever: Even if it might be safe for other people, start low etc.



But still I cannot find dosages. Can I assume that you also simply would eat like 200 mg Harmin and then just eat whatever amount of Mescaline you will find suitable for you? Like obviously just 1/2 dose etc. if you dont know for certain. But I'm just about the Harmalas here.

Would you - if everything seems alright - also ingest the *normal* 150-200 mg of Harmin? Or is it for any reason different here?

Especially useful would be people who can just give their own ratios which they have used already. When I google I get a lot of Reddit results, but everybody just says "Yes you can. Just take caution at the beginning".

Something I only found here was an experience report of 500 mg CIELO product + 200 mg THH, which was regarded like a long-lasting 500 mg "-chloride in potency. But that is THH (which I might also try in combo) and not Harmalas.




And apart from this I'm asking myself if 2C-B would not also be regarded safe, as long as you strictly just also adjust your dose like you would do with Mescaline? It is also NOT an amphetamin, so enzyme-wise it should behave like Mescaline, unlike other hazardous stuff like DOB etc.
 
...Reason would be Harmalas only inhibit MAO-B ...
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IIRC, harmalas inhibit mao-A mainly and start only inhibiting B at higher doses, but I fail to point out a dosis line between them. I'm open to be corrected.
I've never combined harmalas myself with mesc, so sorry no experience to tell from.
 
I do not really have any solid answers for you but I want to mention something I did years ago which was that I took a small dose of Moclobemide (75mg) prior to eating a small dose of pure Mescaline (180mg). I had a great time and was musically enhanced while playing a lot on my guitar. 180mg of Mescaline for me and most people would normally only be a little beyond threshold and I was just trying to carefully experiment, but what that occasion turned into for me was wonderful. It made for much more than I normally would get from 180mg Mescaline all because 75mg of Moclobemide was consumed prior which is really one half the normal amount of Moclobemide for a lighter dose. 300mg of Moclobemide is what I use for full MAO inhibition with DMT.

I know you didn't ask to hear anything about Moclobemide but that past experience of mine is the only thing I can speak on related to your subject.

Peace.
 
Jees said:
IIRC, harmalas inhibit mao-A mainly and start only inhibiting B at higher doses, but I fail to point out a dosis line between them. I'm open to be corrected.
I've never combined harmalas myself with mesc, so sorry no experience to tell from.
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Oh well maybe it was the way around. Still that pattern: Only 1 is inhibited, while mesc will be scissored by the other MAO too and thus it is regarded "safe" if done in any regular ratio.

Obviously I would anyways make my own trials, but would be too good to have some other peoples' numbers as a reference.

Will also duration be increased or only potency? A longer duration might be actually a little annoying - it is already not too short on its own and if not taken directly in morning you would probably extend well into a time where you normally want to finally get some rest normally :oops:


EDIT:

On Bluelight there is a thread about 2C-B + MAOI (mostly speak about moclobemid) and they call it safe as long as you scale down the other substance accordingly obviously.

Now I would be just interested if that means when combining Cacti + Harmalas people would rather use less mescaline + 200 mg Harmalas or instead use (near) regular amount of mescaline and just a dash of Harmalas.
 
When I first looked into the combo on nexus it was not recommended on some of the old wiki pages. However, I have not seen or experienced any negative effects with this combo (doing extracted). As a general rule phenethylamines aren't exactly amphetamines which would be a bad combo (however this is always dependent on the drugs mechanism of action).

From my understanding and depending on your sources 50-81% of mescaline is exerted in the urine of humans unchanged and 13% as inactive TMPA. Which when you think about it, seems unbelievable. Mescaline is deaminated as an unstable aldehyde and then into (inactive) TMPA via oxidization.
What is left floating around in the brain and binding to 5HT receptors etc is believed to be deaminated by MAO and or DAO but this is very controversial. In fact there's a belief mescaline oxidase plays a role and there's still no clear answer on which plays a bigger role MAO and DAO. The original thought that MAO played a role actual stems form a 1950's study on dogs and mice studies from the 1970's and this disputed by some.

In the brain, N-acetylated compounds point towards one of the main mescaline metabolites excreted meaning N-acetylation is likely the main route of breakdown/ removal of mescaline. This excretion increases when DAOI's are used (in mice models). This may point to the fact DAO plays a much bigger role than MAO.

Which makes sense to me as the combo (IME) did not cause potentiation it just lightly synergized. In my experience with the two, I don't think it is worth it. However its a subjective experience and hard to pin down, harmala I should add may combat the increased heart rate and blood pressure. I'd still be cautious with the combo. EDIT: as pointed out tyramine in whole cactus could cause more vasoconstriction if mixed with harmala. Although as stated by shamenstamen, this interaction is likely exaggerated.

I attached the metabolic routes of mescaline if interested (this is an animal model though).
 

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There's Tyramine in cactus to consider. Pure Mescaline seems to be documented to be safe with an MAOI, but cactus has varying amounts of Tyramine. Might account for varying reports.
 
brokedownpalace10 said:
There's Tyramine in cactus to consider. Pure Mescaline seems to be documented to be safe with an MAOI, but cactus has varying amounts of Tyramine. Might account for varying reports.
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The Tyramine isn't going to be any issue at all with Harmalas/reversible MAO-A inhibition, as Tyramine can still be brown down by MAO-B among other routes, plus Tyramine by acting as a competitive substrate for MAO-A can apparently displace reversible MAO-A inhibition and revert MAO-A back to normal to also metabolize the Tyramine. Whereas with irreversible MAOI's the MAO enzymes (MAO-A and MAO-B) can be knocked out for approx 2 weeks which allows Tyramine levels to build up to dangerous levels. So there's a good bit of a difference between the RIMA's and the MAOI's as far as Tyramine is concerned.
 
I do not know if it's safe, I have tried together mescaline and extracted alkaloids only once (250 mg mescaline sulphate + 20 mg caapi alkaloids sublingually).

I didn't like it very much, maybe there is some potentiation, but I will not repeat it, it's not worth it in my opinion, there was no synergy similar to synergy with tryptamines.
 
From my understanding and depending on your sources 50-81% of mescaline is exerted in the urine of humans unchanged and 13% as inactive TMPA. Which when you think about it, seems unbelievable.
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Wow crazy no wonders we have to ingest such ridiculous amounts if the overall biochemistry happening seems rather inefficient.

Which makes sense to me as the combo (IME) did not cause potentiation it just lightly synergized. In my experience with the two, I don't think it is worth it.
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Interesting - will check, then probably THH is more of a combo worth it?


There's Tyramine in cactus to consider. Pure Mescaline seems to be documented to be safe with an MAOI, but cactus has varying amounts of Tyramine. Might account for varying reports.
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I would go with the CIELO anways which was believed to not get any of those into the final product? It's just weird, because Tyramine is also an alkaloid and I see no step which would separate the 2. But if it's working that's the main thing.

Pachanoi and rue was always safe for me. My one bridgesii + rue experience felt dangerously vasoconstricting.
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How much Harmalas did you use? Or was it a tea so you dont have the value in mg? Sadly never made a tea, so I only have the powder weight in my head ...


I didn't like it very much, maybe there is some potentiation, but I will not repeat it, it's not worth it in my opinion, there was no synergy similar to synergy with tryptamines.
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Ok same like _Trip_ ... then again did you also try with THH and does this make more sense?
 
_Trip_ said:
THH I remember reading good things but I have a feeling it was from one of 69Ron's alisas.
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THH does appear to work nicely with mescaline. I say "appear" because I only tried this combination once and haven't gotten around to doing more experiments with it. Here is my trip report.

This is at least one recommendation from 69ron/ava69 that seems to intersect the reality that the rest of us live in.
 
Twilight Person said:
Ok same like _Trip_ ... then again did you also try with THH and does this make more sense?
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No, but I used alkaloids from caapi vine, which should contain some THH afaik (subjectively it has really different effects than rue alkaloids, so I assume it really has some THH).

Imo harmala alks do not add anything especially interesting to the effects of mescaline, but this is definitely subjective. I prefer addition of caffeine 4 hours after ingestion of mescaline.

I believe that claims of extraordinary effects of THH are highly exagerated, it really is quite pleasant and euphoric substance, but do not expect too much from it.
 
I've done this combination many times, I enjoy it very much.

No real safety issues for the reasons mentioned above, but everyone metabolizes things differently, so go slow and see how YOU react to it.

The main thing I'd suggest to keep in mind here is the difference in duration. With mescaline taking so long to come on, a pre-dose of harmal will generally be wearing off by the time the mescaline really starts ramping up. So I generally like to take it as the mescaline starts to hit to smooth out the peak, or as the peak starts to wear off to ease the down slope.

To my experience there isn't really any potentiation like there is with tryptamines, no need to lower doses or anything, but there is a lovely synergy between the two.

Haapi San Paapi'ing 8)
 
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