Methods of Heating "The Machine" (renamed)

[WSaged]

You could then adjust to find the EXACT proper temperature...for vaporizing DMT (isn't it just a bit under 160C ?).

SWIM believes the boiling point of DMT to be 60-80C.

so then what IS the vaporizing temperature of dmt?

It starts to vaporize right around 160 degrees Fahrenheit...which equals...right around 70 degrees Celsius.

So you are both kind of right.

SF just needed a "F" instead of a "C" after his temp.



What I don't get, is why in the year 2009, we still need 2 different ways to measure the same exact thing?:lol: :lol:
(just kidding... )


WS

 

[tryptographer]

It starts to vaporize right around 160 degrees Fahrenheit...which equals...right around 70 degrees Celsius.
So you are both kind of right.

SF just needed a "F" instead of a "C" after his temp.
WS

I don't agree (for once!), try to vaporize the freebase at 100 deg Celsius - boiling water! I wish it worked, that would make vaporization from a test tube much easier. I said it before and this is the last time, promise...

 

[WSaged]

I don't agree (for once!), try to vaporize the freebase at 100 deg Celsius - boiling water! I wish it worked, that would make vaporization from a test tube much easier. I said it before and this is the last time, promise...

So what are you saying the vaporization temp is then?

100C = 212F

I know for sure, from experience that DMT burns up fast at much, much less than 212 degrees Fahrenheit!!


BTW, I'm not sure placing a glass tube in a certain temp water is the most accurate example for testing the vaporization temperature of a substance.
(although to be fair, I'm not a scientist, this may be a standard or something...:?: ).
I would just think that there is a whole lot of variables in that method.

Also, wouldn't the top surface area of the DMT oil, being fully exposed to the air above it, at a different, much cooler temperature, effect the results a lot?
Making it necessary to heat the water bath to a hotter temp than the vaporization temp of the oil in question to get it to vape?


Just out of curiosity, what is the temp of the heat coming off of a regular Bic lighter?
Right around the flame, but not touching it...
Anyone know, or have a way to find out?

WS

 

[SWIMfriend]

The vaporization temperature is what it is. Let's assume that WS is correct and say it's about 60C. That means that under standard pressure conditions, LIQUID DMT will not achieve temperatures HIGHER than 60C. If it does, it's no longer liquid, but vapor.

But it says NOTHING about how hot a surface one can use to cause DMT to vaporize. Water, for example, will vaporize pretty much instaneously if placed on a surface at a temp of 1000C (as long as there's sufficent HEAT to maintain that 1000C temp in the presence of the much cooler water).

But water is hydrogen that has ALREADY been "burned," so one doesn't have to worry about "burning" water. One does (apparently) have to worry about burning DMT. So I have a simple question? How would one determine, by placing DMT on a hot surface, whether it was burning or vaporizing?

I would say one "obvious" (and maybe too obvious) way would be whether or not it appears to SMOKE. When materials evaporate they do it one molecule at a time--which is invisible. When they burn they usually produce smoke--which is usually particulate matter (soot) composed of conglomerations of the substance all oxidized and bound together by the excessive heat.

So...I imagine when people "smoke...or vaporize" DMT they OBSERVE a cloud of something. Would it be fair to assume that what they'are seeing is in fact SMOKE, caused by BURNING the DMT?

 

[WSaged]

DMT vapor is kind of a white cloud, but when it burns it looks (& feels) more like smoke, much like you said.

Also, DMT has a very distinct scent to it when it is vaporizing at a good temp.
There is also another very distinct, no so pleasant stick to it, when it is burning, as apposed to vaporizing!!

One last thing & this depends on how clean your extract is, but as pure, clear/white DMT is vaporized properly, is barely leaves behind any residue.
However when it is burnt, it does leave behind a hard, black soot.

(Dirtier, impure (yellow) spice, will tend to leave some burnt soot, regardless of how good your vaporizing method is.)

The vaporization temperature is what it is. Let's assume that WS is correct and say it's about 60C. That means that under standard pressure conditions, LIQUID DMT will not achieve temperatures HIGHER than 60C. If it does, it's no longer liquid, but vapor.

I guess I just meant that with a glass tube submerged in hot water...how long will it take that tube to reach the same temp as the surrounding water completely, so it can effectively vaporize the spice held in it?
I don't think 100c is hot enough to flash-heat a test tube fast enough to cause quick vaporization on a substance down in it.
I think it would take a bit of time for the glass to fully reach that temp...

WS

 

[SWIMfriend]

OK, I'm gonna remember that. Some day when I have the time (and the spice) I'll set up a heating element/surface, with accurate temp measurement, and determine at what temps vaporization stops and burning seems to begin...

In an earlier post I wrote about vaporizing spice into a somewhat evacuated chamber. This is an intriguing idea because:

1) The chamber could be QUITE SMALL--probably 500CC or even significantly less.
2) The vaporization could take as LONG as you pleased--therefore you could perform it at low temp and not burn any.
3) That small volume of spice vapor could then be easily inhaled in a single hit--enabling taking even HUGE doses in a single hit.

I'm going to look into that at the same time I'll look into ideal temps for vaporization.

 

[WSaged]

2) The vaporization could take as LONG as you pleased--therefore you could perform it at low temp and not burn any.

Not necessarily on this one.
As the vapor stands & cools, it begins to crystallize on the inside surface if the smoking device somewhat quickly.
It takes a little bit of time & I guess you could maintain a certain temp on the "holding chamber" to slow this down even more.
But after a few minutes, it will start to crystallize inside of the chamber if your not inhaling it.

WS

 

[tryptographer]

So what are you saying the vaporization temp is then?
100C = 212F
BTW, I'm not sure placing a glass tube in a certain temp water is the most accurate example for testing the vaporization temperature of a substance.
(although to be fair, I'm not a scientist, this may be a standard or something...:?: ).
I would just think that there is a whole lot of variables in that method.

On the contrary: everything is very close to 100 C. I'm certain the vaporization temp is way above the boiling point of water, 100C or 212F - BTW I agree with this confusing Fahrenheit/Celsius issue
At sea level, the temperature of boiling water is 100 C no matter how hard it boils. If you boil or melt a substance, the added heat will go into more melting/boiling and temperature remains constant until the next phase is reached.
Put a small test tube with DMT in boiling water and all of the submerged parts and the DMT will soon also be 100C, pretty reliable if you ask me. It melts quickly but there's just no way I can get it to vaporize at this temperature, and I even tried steam distilling - I want it to be more volatile than it actually is!
After cooling I had no trouble testing the molten spice at the bottom of the test tube the usual way, with a flame - instant vaporization... sub-breakthrough but I can tell it was still there

I know for sure, from experience that DMT burns up fast at much, much less than 212 degrees Fahrenheit!!

But how can you be so sure it really was so cold... when using flames to heat, there can be large spikes in temperature, the hottest parts of a candle or lighter flame is close to 1000 C and can cause a seriously hot airflow.

Also, wouldn't the top surface area of the DMT oil, being fully exposed to the air above it, at a different, much cooler temperature, effect the results a lot?
Making it necessary to heat the water bath to a hotter temp than the vaporization temp of the oil in question to get it to vape?

The whole submerged part of the test tube is 100C, there are no mysterious cool areas! It's simple: if the boiling point of the DMT were only a few degrees below 100C, it would start to boil and the vapours would condense on the cool parts - or be inhaled
It would be interesting to repeat this little experiment in an oil bath, that should be hot enough to vap it!

 

[tryptographer]

So...I imagine when people "smoke...or vaporize" DMT they OBSERVE a cloud of something. Would it be fair to assume that what they'are seeing is in fact SMOKE, caused by BURNING the DMT?

This cloud is a suspension of tiny DMT droplets in the air that quickly condensed from the vapor. Vapor (DMT in the gaseous phase) would be hardly visible!

 

[SWIMfriend]

So...I imagine when people "smoke...or vaporize" DMT they OBSERVE a cloud of something. Would it be fair to assume that what they'are seeing is in fact SMOKE, caused by BURNING the DMT?

This cloud is a suspension of tiny DMT droplets in the air that quickly condensed from the vapor. Vapor (DMT in the gaseous phase) would be hardly visible!

So you say!

The only way to know for sure is to recondense it and determine how much of your original sample you can recover that way.

Of course, "burned" DMT would likely also condense. You'd have to heat your sample (and note the exact temp that the heating surface maintains), condense ALL the possible escaped "vapor," and then redissolve that condensate from your glassware, and evaluate for the percentage oxidized.

I wouldn't be surprised if MOST of what people end up inhaling ends up being oxidized DMT. This is yet one more reason I'm interested in the nebulizer--there will be NO DOUBT about exactly what molecule one is inhaling, and very little doubt about the true dosage received of that molecule.

From what warrensaged has said, one might make a reasonable approximation based on odor--and avoid tedious analysis.

 

[diox8tony]

sorry to rain on all yall's parade. but wouldn't holding a regular lighter inches away from the bowl, work just as good to not burn the spice? this is what i have been using. and yes a bowl full of dmt laden mesh in a bong works good.

but don't mind me. continue on making an automatic spice delivery machine ill buy one once you've made it. if it fits in my pocket.

 

[WSaged]

sorry to rain on all yall's parade. but wouldn't holding a regular lighter inches away from the bowl, work just as good to not burn the spice? this is what i have been using. and yes a bowl full of dmt laden mesh in a bong works good.

but don't mind me. continue on making an automatic spice delivery machine ill buy one once you've made it. if it fits in my pocket.

No.

Even if you are able to vaporize all of it, without burning any (unlikely!!), you still lose a portion to the wind & exhaling it.
The idea is that a nebulizer not only will avoid burning anything for sure. It will also cause the DMT to be deposited in your lungs as a liquid & nothing is going to be lost to exhaling either.

Doing it this way guarantees the user receives the whole intended dose!! Down to the last drop.

Not to mention it's a cool mist, not a hot vapor, or smoke.
Significant differences there!

Read THIS THREAD & the links to nebulizer tech, you'll probably get it then.

WS

 

[amor_fati]

SWIM's been using a butane soldering iron with the blower tip attached to smoke bufo out of his improvised labware bubbler withgreat ease and success. It's definitely some of the cleanest vapor he's managed to get out this, as the prototype can make it a bit difficult to not burn some of the product at times. SWIM can't wait to test this out on spice when he gets the chance.

Perhaps these heat blower tips can used in constructing a special bowl for a bubbler, since they have ceramic filters. Something like a combination of the vapor genie and the machine. They should only be like $5 a piece. SWIM's thinking it could be as simple as a metal or glass tube with a copper mesh plug fitted to the blower tip so that it can easily be removed to load spice. A rubber gasket (like for faucets or whatever other plumbing application) could be fitted around the base to provide a seal. This way, one could merely use a any lighter, any bubbler, and perhaps not have to worry about burning spice.