(Micro)dosing harmala's

[dragonrider]

Apparently, there are all sorts of health effects, attributed to beta-carbolines.
They are said to help prevent cancer and maybe parkinsons, to name a view.

Now i happen to know that there are some people in this community, who are takin either caapi or rue, on a daily basis.

So i wonder what your experiences are.

Would you consider your use "microdosing", or do you take substantial amounts? Is it true that you become more sensitive to psychedelics if you take harmala's everyday? Or to sunlight?

Feel free to share your experiences with the rest of us.

 

[Voidmatrix]

I presently drink 5g of rue tea every evening usually during my meditations. If for some reason I am unable to drink my tea, then I will orally take some freebase harmalas. This has been consistent for about a year. I started with 3.5g and over time worked my way to 5g. I tried 6g a few weeks ago and got rocked. For me, when a rue experience is "too much," I tend to become more nauseated and have an internal sense of movement that can become disorienting, but can lead to some very deep states of consciousness. They can sometimes be hard to sustain due to intensity. I have purged on just rue as well.

I have noticed the following as I've traveled down this path: increased resiliency in life and with regard to life events, better and longer investment in my meditation practice, better sense of well-being, improved immunity, centered/balanced more often, better gut management (such as in psychedelic states; I haven't purged from DMT or changa in a while), and better clarity.

It seems apt to say that my sensitivities have increased to light and psychedelics, but I'm also hypersensitive anyway. I do notice an impact and mitigation of this increased sensitivity by the increase in resilience.

I'm very pleased with my bond and relationship to rue. It's opened a lot of doors and helped in my healing process and treading my path.

One love

 

[dragonrider]

5 grams...wow. That sounds like a lot. I think i'm gonna start a little lower than that.
But good to hear it's working for you.

For me, harmala's also increase my sensitivity to cannabis, making it very psychedelic. Even visually. Have you noticed that as well?
The first time i experienced this, it realy of knocked me off my feet. Wich was a bit awkward, because i was iceskating and had just taken a few puffs of a joint before i went on the ice.:lol:

 

[Voidmatrix]

5 grams...wow. That sounds like a lot. I think i'm gonna start a little lower than that.
But good to hear it's working for you.

For me, harmala's also increase my sensitivity to cannabis, making it very psychedelic. Even visually. Have you noticed that as well?
The first time i experienced this, it realy of knocked me off my feet. Wich was a bit awkward, because i was iceskating and had just taken a few puffs of a joint before i went on the ice.:lol:

I do recommend starting lower. I began at 3.5g, but had one attempt at 5g before reverting back and choosing to work myself up. I spent a fair amount of time kneeling with my forehead to the ground and my arms outstretched, which is a grounding position for me.

There's certainly a synergy between rue and cannabis. I had already began unlocking the psychedelic potential of cannabis, but then everything blasted open as I began increasing my rue dosage and experimenting with other plants snd herbs. I think it's fair to say that more days than not, I at the very least have a mild psychedelic experience

And I would not try ice skating even with just rue. I'd probably get really high for such an activity though

One love

 

[Jees]

Apparently, there are all sorts of health effects, attributed to beta-carbolines.
They are said to help prevent cancer and maybe parkinsons, to name a view...

Hi dragonrider,

I wonder if the prevent-cancer comes from the quinazolines mainly.
If so, after a manske these properties might been 'gone'.

An insight into the therapeutic potential of quinazoline derivatives as anticancer agents

This article reviews the recent advances in the development of quinazoline derivatives as anticancer agents.Cancer is one of the major causes of worldwide human mortality. A wide range of cytotoxic drugs are available on the market, and several compounds ...

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

2.7. Quinazoline derivatives with apoptotic activity
Quinazolinones and their derivatives are well known as biologically active molecules and are especially used in anti-cancer therapies for breast and other forms of cancer treatment.

https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0278691517301035

In this work three major quinazoline alkaloids were isolated from P. harmala extracts and characterized as peganine (vasicine), deoxypeganine (deoxyvasicine) and a novel compound identified by ...(peganine glycoside)...whereas peganine and peganine glycoside accumulated in high amount in dry seeds reaching up to 1 and 3.9% (w/w),

For full spectrum effects I Cap ground rue seeds in AA caps, then it holds aprox 0,55 gr, So far didn't roast. I'd like to take 1 cap a day, sometimes 2 with time in between. I call this micro or mini dosing.
If I feel like then I take 2 at once.
As a base for vaping deems later on then I take 3, maybe 4. Starting from 4 little nausea might come up, not so with 3. I avoid coffee around rue, that makes me uncomfy.
2 gives a nice head space.
I do this for 1, or 2, or 3 months, then stop for some weeks, cycling looks like a good idea.

Time ago I started with caapi tea (stopped with rue) , drinking a tea daily from 10gr powdered wood. If the volume is not reduced then it tastes good. After a week I started to feel a tad detached from the world and my lower eye lids swelled a bit. This effect was reproduced later. So I paused and started again at 5gr powdered boiled wood a day, that seemed better.

Comparing the rue to caapi: rue does not detach me from the world and always has a 'happy' effect on me. Caapi wrapped a blanket around me but I started to be a little 'isolated' from the world and it does not make me 'happy' as rue does. Caapi came across more serious (boring?) and rue more playful.

I'll keep doing both, cycling with them, and periods off use.

The caapi can be boiled (3 to 4 hours) in liters, for example 20gr in 2 liters, filter and drink that over 4 days. I add a pinch of citric acid in the boil.

I'll be happy to read others approaches.

 

[Jees]

...I wonder if the prevent-cancer comes from the quinazolines mainly...

The beta carbolines seem to be active too.

A comprehensive overview of β-carbolines and its derivatives as anticancer agents - PubMed

β-Carboline alkaloids are a family of natural and synthetic products with structural diversity and outstanding antitumor activities. This review summarizes research developments of β-carboline and its derivatives as anticancer agents, which focused on both natural and synthetic monomers as well...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

β-Carboline alkaloids are a family of natural and synthetic products with structural diversity and outstanding antitumor activities.

 

[espurrr]

recently ive received a sample of harmalas extracted from rue seeds from a friend, in which all the harmaline was converted to tetrahydroharmine, so only harmine and THH remain, ive been taking harmalas for years and i find this converted sample much better suited for microdosing due to less side effects and longer duration, it is also more energetic and clear

 

[universecannon]

I took them for years. It's been some time now. Anywhere from 20 to 100mg or so a day. 5g rue would rock me for probably 20 hours lol. 2g does for 12hrs. I noticed a great increase in sensitivity to psychedelics, especially harmalas. I needed less and less. But I also combined it with heavy melatonin use and a long term fruit based diet, so it is hard to tease the individual factors apart when determining what caused what long term effect. I suspect it hijacked my internal production of similar compounds that we know already exist in the brian (pinoline for example) because I often have haramala-esque effects at night "sober", including the classic harmala visual flutter, and enter those hypnogogic states very readily. To me they helped change the architecture of thought into a more expansive and visual topography. They felt very recalibrating in a general sense of well-being. But I was combining them with almost weekly high doses as well, which really shines in silent darkness

 

[downwardsfromzero]

To me they helped change the architecture of thought into a more expansive and visual topography.

I've noticed this as well since developing a more regular harmala practice. My mode of thinking is even more visual than it was before, more holistic and with rather less of the internal verbalization. It feels to me as though frequent harmala use supports an ongoing, beneficial rewiring of the brain. My back pain is also much more manageable nowadays which could also be due to neurological regeneration.

A footnote here is that I've even found direct application of the whole raw seeds to be beneficial for oral health - more so than alkaloidal extracts or roasted seed tea.

 

[Jees]

...A footnote here is that I've even found direct application of the whole raw seeds to be beneficial for oral health - more so than alkaloidal extracts or roasted seed tea.

If only for the simple reason that powdered seeds work like a charm, it does not need to be extracted at all for microdosing. I cap them in AA caps, just over 0.5 gr per cap. Feeling vape-ish? Take 3 caps in advance, this is just below nausea levels and will tame/prolong the vape-crazy.

PS: no raw rue for pregnant people.

 

[MuteUSO]

I find this is a highly interesting topic and am wondering if folks like downwardfromzero, Jees, Void et al. are still partaking in their regular - and what I would say at times pretty heavy - dosing practices. How is it going for you, any new insights?

I for my part have engaged in what I would call real MICRO-dosing of caapi paste for about a year or so on an every three day (or so) basis, with two weeks off every now and then. I take about 0.5-1g of 30x paste sublingually (I think they count the original amount used for the paste in fresh vine, which is roughly 3:1 to dried vine) . Effect-wise, I feel that this is making me a little more present in my day-to-day activities, I also feel closer to my emotional body; my meditation practice (which works via the body a la Vipassana style) is slightly enhanced, in particular on on-days. Like DWFZ, I feel that the sublingual use also improves my oral health, my teeth even appear to be a bit whiter.

Going forward, I plan to increase my doses a little bit, to rather get to what I would call regular minidosing. For this, I for the first time extracted my own caapi only brew and plan to take around 10-20g once or twice a week, preferably before meditating. I have done similar experiments with mushrooms (0.1-0.5g) before and feel that taken like this my meditation practice has improved. I feel that caapi is particularly suited to help here as well.

 

[The Sofa Traveler]

I drink rue tea regularly since 9 months, not daily but at least once a week, up to 3/4 times a week sometimes. My doses are usually from 4g to 8g unroasted whole seeds - depending on the seeds batch strength - with 1h boiling. I remember that my first teas were a little disturbing for the digestive system, but the inconveniences faded away as I consumed them regularly. Also, it became less and less nauseating over time, not sure if it is due to the adaptation of the organism, or the fact that from now on, to anticipe nausea I eat some ginger and/or take 2 lemon EO drops 1 hour before the tea. Even at high dosage I don't encounter nausea anymore. I usually wait like 2h after the last (light) meal before drinking tea, I think it's better if the digestion is already well advanced. I feel rue tea very healthy, I feel overall cleaner, in head as in body. And yeah I agree with the fact that rue brings some changes (in good) in the thoughts process. I feel my thoughts more clear, more pragmatic. At the beginning, I was in rue tea just to prolounge the vaped DMT experience but now I consume regularly rue tea for its own benefits (with anyway the door wide open for vaping DMT over it if I feel lust for it ).

 

[Jees]

I find this is a highly interesting topic and am wondering if folks like downwardfromzero, Jees, Void et al. are still partaking in their regular - and what I would say at times pretty heavy - dosing practices. How is it going for you, any new insights?

I for my part have engaged in what I would call real MICRO-dosing of caapi paste for about a year or so on an every three day (or so) basis, with some two weeks off every now and then. I take about 0.5-1g of 30x paste (I think it is made from dry vine) sublingually. Effect-wise, I feel that this is making me a little more present in my day-to-day activities, I also feel closer to my emotions and emotional body; my meditation practice (which works via the body a la Vipassana style) is slightly enhanced, in particular on on-days. Like DFZ I feel that the sublingual use also improves my oral health, even my teeth appear to be a bit whiter.

Going forward, I plan to increase my doses a little bit, to rather get to what I would call regular minidosing. For this, I for the first time extracted my own caapi only brew and plan to take around 10-20g once or twice a week, preferably before meditating. I have done similar experiments with mushrooms (0.1-0.5g) before and feel that taken like this my meditation practice has improved exponentially. I feel that caapi is particularly suited to help here as well.

Great to hear your protocol.

Yes I'm still doing exactly as said. I consider it as greasing the cog-wheels. It works without, but a drop of oil now and then makes things going more gracefully. 1 (550mg - 660mg) to 2 AA caps unroasted ground rue seeds a day, separated in time (say 8 hours), is standard. All variations respecting whatever calls the day. I've never over oiled chronically to see what gives.

To the critic "are you depending?" I suggest yes. I'm also depending (though more dramatically) on water, vitamins, minerals, so... yes. I think our society at large is e.g. harmala "underfed", a structural deficiency by circumstances. In a break period I get back into that well known remembered state, I think we're sensitive for the neural conditions.

"Grams" is often misleading. Roasted or raw? Whole or ground? Steeping or boiling (time)?

So far rue serves me personally one notch better than caapi. My Caapi protocol was like boiling (min 1 hour) 2 to 3 bulging soup spoons micro shredded vine in like 3-4 liters water, strain, cool, end with 3 full 1 liter bottles. That's cold tea, take a glass (or two) a day, chronically. Took me a week to get the vibe stabilized. It makes me more zen, while rue caps makes me more of happy and stable too. Different oil on the cogs? I did both full spectrum, that seems to flavor.

A bow..

 

[MuteUSO]

Many thanks for all your responses! Very nice to hear that many of you are still going strong in their regular and long-term dosing practices, apparently without suffering negative but, in contrast, experiencing positive effects.

As mentioned a couple posts above, I brewed caapi tea for the first time and planned to engage in a mini-dosing practice. Now, I have done a 3x3 boil with a bit of vinegar (ph 3.5 or so). I have - what I find - something quite interesting to report on this.

The first night after brewing I just took the slightest amount, like a third of a teaspoon (which should amount to not more than 1 gram of caapi, probably less). I did it just for the taste. However, after some quite intense and vivid dreams that night, I experienced a day full of presence and wonder. I biked through the city and recognised details I had never before; my vision was very noticeably more saturated and detailed. Additionally, I felt very centred and close to my 'emotional body' - like a minute of meditation would get the tears flowing. Somehow the feeling was comparable to a mini-dose of LSD (say 20mcg).

I find this quite remarkable with such a small amount, as I did not expect any noticeable effects. I am quite sensitive to anything, but this was unusual even for me. Btw, I never had such effects from the 30x paste, even when taking higher doses. Will take more of the caapi brew the next couple of days and report back. But is there anyone else that gets effects from such small doses? Can less be more somehow?

 

[The Sofa Traveler]

"Grams" is often misleading. Roasted or raw? Whole or ground? Steeping or boiling (time)?

Absolutely. Talking about "grams" in absolute when dosing rue seeds doesn't really make sense, for the reasons you mention and also because the dosage relies on the batches strength, as some are twice as potent as others, depending on the area and the period they are harvested. For example, I had a batch that was quite strong at 4 or 5 grams, whereas another (from another source) was very weak even at 10 grams... BTW, thank you for this reminder, I will edit my previous post, where I had not specified that my dosage range was for whole unroasted seeds.

@MuteUSO : nice you had such a great low harmalas dose experience, looks good for the future :thumb_up:

 

[Jees]

... Can less be more somehow?

You might have just tipped a balancing point. Also, one day is not the other, the sum of conditions might vary and there are a ton of conditions all working at once. There's also reverse tolerance that might have played a role...I would not generalize on behalf of a limited set. It's sure interesting that there's no 'given' with these plants. Alcohol is way more predictable in that sense.
Yeah, sometimes less is more, but not always, this keeps things interesting.

In group sessions It's clear that people have sometimes widely varying results, going from dull to very revealing, everyone doing same cups in same external conditions.

How strong a dose hits is imho very dependable how fast it gets assimilated, referring to the digestion track circumstances and it's more of a lottery. If what you take is fastly absorbed it hits like 10x stronger than when same stuff got parked in stomach and whatnot and released over a larger period of time. Sublingual might be more stable. Intake after some eating always spread out heavily with lesser amplitude. Intake before eating (a bit) then it gets faster into the blood.
I never get nausea from 150mg harmala-HCL but of late this on an empty stomach made me nauseating near half a day. Strange things.

Personally I avoid coffee or strong tea near any harmala intake (even 1 AA cap ground seeds), more than once it ruins the good vibe pretty hard. Avoiding 2 Hours before and after is a workable window ime. Some people have no issue combining. For me it's a classic nono.

 

[dragonrider]

I've been microdosing rue for a while now, and i think that less is indeed more. When i started to increase the dose, it started to noticeably affect my sleep.
For a sustainable, daily use of harmala's, i believe that low doses do go a long way.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

I like a pinch of seeds, held between my cheek and gum, for a slow-release dose overnight. Easier than worrying about making brews on a busy day!

 

[Animistic]

I've just begun my harmala daily dosing journey yesterday with crushed Rue seed. I had 1g yesterday, 2g this morning and soon to take another 1g. Slightly trancey headspace at times, consciousness feels sharper though. I have also noticed that emotions feel more concrete and yet I can view from a distance. I have also identified a pattern of behaviour I didn't like and caught it in the moment before acting it out. Rue feels like it creates a lot of space. Looking forward to seeing where this goes.

 

[Jees]

I've just begun my harmala daily dosing journey yesterday with crushed Rue seed. I had 1g yesterday, 2g this morning and soon to take another 1g. Slightly trancey headspace at times, consciousness feels sharper though. I have also noticed that emotions feel more concrete and yet I can view from a distance. I have also identified a pattern of behaviour I didn't like and caught it in the moment before acting it out. Rue feels like it creates a lot of space. Looking forward to seeing where this goes.

that
Keep us informed please, and nothing is more simple that crushed/ground seeds. So bloody cheap, sustainable, .. :thumb_up: