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"Moses was on Aya" say scientists

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Pokey

Pokey

Rising Star
I'm not a religious fellow, but this was a mildly entertaining article until I came to the part where they speculate that Moses was on something similar to Aya.


"As for the voice of God, Hebrew University psychology professor Benny Shanon proposes that Moses was tripping at the time on a hallucinogenic substance similar to ayahuasca. Shanon argues further that the presentation of the Ten Commandments might have been a mass hallucination. "The thunder, lightning and blaring of a trumpet which the Book of Exodus says emanated from Mount Sinai could just have been the imaginings of a people in an altered state of awareness."

www.slate.com

Scientific explanations for the parting of the Red Sea, the 10 plagues, and the burning bush.

The beginning of Passover on Monday night prompts an age-old question: Did the events recorded in Exodus actually occur? In 2009, Michael Lukas...
www.slate.com www.slate.com

Pokey The Pious

Edit: changed the name of this thread 'cause it souded boring before.
 
I feel like dmt is a straight split second change of accessability to the "truth" I feel is the god/budha/Allah/whatever you want to call "it". Because I feel we all know "it" and what makes us a "good" person is our ability to not give in to the "earthly" values that get in the way of the connection between the "truth" and our reality as we percieve it.
 
I've seen something like this before, that Kabbalists used an ayahuasca analogue based off of Syrian rue and a species of acacia that's abundant in the area. Looks like the scientist doesn't consider the possibility that Moses might have been using an ayahuasca analogue AND talking with God!
 
I heard somewhere that Dr. Strassman is writing a book about this kind of things (Christian stuff + psychedelic stuff)
 
The thing is, if those things REALLY HAPPENED it's tough to explain with science, so an easy way to explain it using science is, "HE WAS TRIPPING", or "HE WAS NUTS", or “HE WAS LYING TO MAKE HIS STORY SOUND NICER THAN IT REALLY WAS”.

However you look at it, no one in today’s time was there. No one saw what happened. It wasn’t recorded on film. There is no evidence of it to attack it with or support it with. There is only a written record of it.

We will never know what really happened, EVER.

At this point in time it’s all speculation.

Science does not know everything that is possible. Science can only measure, record, predict, and analyze things based on what’s currently available and make projections into the past based on what we currently know today. There’s no way to go back in time to analyze the alleged events, and there never will be.
 
He could of had temporal lobe epilepsy. A large percentage of people today with temporal lobe epilepsy experience visions of a highly religious nature during their seizures. It could also be the same for Muhammad and many other religious figures. Muhummad used to be immobilized and sweating during his "revelations". This has been described in the Hadith's. He had numerous potential symptoms according to these descriptions.

Of course it can't be proven but its a bit like arriving at the scene of a crime. You have to piece together what happened from what you have. One thing seems to be sure. That if there was a monotheistic god who influenced jesus, moses, muhummad and the likes is that he was a raging lunatic who changed his mind often. All evidence points to these individuals being full of themselves or deluded much like modern religious figures who make it up like John Smith of the mormons etc.
 
Haha John Smith. "Hey I have some magic scriptures." "Can I see them?" "No I have to keep them inside my hat and read them to you." Is that really true or did South Park make that up?

L.Ron Hubbard is my personal favourite... he didn't even bother to hide that he was only doing it for the yachts. Well, so says the internet...
 
69ron said:
However you look at it, no one in today’s time was there. No one saw what happened. It wasn’t recorded on film.
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Darn, I'd always though Cecil B. DeMille made his films with the aid of a time machine :lol:


ohayoco said:
Haha John Smith. "Hey I have some magic scriptures." "Can I see them?" "No I have to keep them inside my hat and read them to you." Is that really true or did South Park make that up?
Click to expand...

Not explicitly true, though it may as well be... one of the translators signed a statement that he had seen the plates, but Smith never let anyone else look at them with the magic translator rocks (Urim and Thummim). But it is true that when a translation of one of the books was "lost" (hidden by the translators wife), Smith couldn't simply re-translate, he claimed God was angry with him and wouldn't let him translate that plate again, and produced a different story hitting the same basic points from the next plate.

Also interesting to note, back in the early 19th century, Smith translated an Egyptian papyrus into The Book of Abraham, supposedly written by Abraham while in Egypt. In fact, they're portions of Egyptian funerary texts. Go figure 😉


L.Ron Hubbard is my personal favourite... he didn't even bother to hide that he was only doing it for the yachts. Well, so says the internet...
Click to expand...

Only sort of. Hubbard did say "If I wanted to make money, I'd start a religion," but that was before he actually started the religion. He never explicitly claimed that he was only in it for the money after starting scientology :lol:
 
Pokey said:
I'm not a religious fellow, but this was a mildly entertaining article until I came to the part where they speculate that Moses was on something similar to Aya.


"As for the voice of God, Hebrew University psychology professor Benny Shanon proposes that Moses was tripping at the time on a hallucinogenic substance similar to ayahuasca. Shanon argues further that the presentation of the Ten Commandments might have been a mass hallucination. "The thunder, lightning and blaring of a trumpet which the Book of Exodus says emanated from Mount Sinai could just have been the imaginings of a people in an altered state of awareness."

www.slate.com

Scientific explanations for the parting of the Red Sea, the 10 plagues, and the burning bush.

The beginning of Passover on Monday night prompts an age-old question: Did the events recorded in Exodus actually occur? In 2009, Michael Lukas...
www.slate.com www.slate.com

Pokey The Pious

Edit: changed the name of this thread 'cause it souded boring before.
Click to expand...

Well it is speculated that Moses burning bush may have been a Acacia species. He may have been the first DMT smoker. But like Ron said we will never know for sure.

There were certainly many epileptics in the Bible Saul on the road to Damascus describes a text book example of a epileptic seizure it cause him to end his percussion of Jesus and become a follower.

It would also appear that many shamans were also epileptic so I would suspect there MAY be a real link between epileptic seizures and mystical rapture.

I think it was probably Aliens that parted the Red Sea.........Just Kidding it had to have been God.....Just Kidding again.

Peace Friends
 
Benny Shannon was definitely tripping. What he wrote is not even remotely science! Speculations a dime a dozen and I can speculate about anyhing: "Holy Blood, Holy Grail", anyone?

I'm not saying that entheogens did not have its importance in the origins of spirituality and religion, but assigning a (probably) fictional character as Moses to entheogens based on a meager citation from a book composed at least 1000 years after said character died, is a bit of a stretch. Being an Israelite and speaking Hebrew, he should know better - or perhaps not!
 
Benny Shannon does actually like to trip - however it is actually possible that the prophetic stories in the bible and other religious texts are based on trips. The makings of an ayahuasca type brew are prevalent in the middle east.
 
What I have learned from this article:

All the religious figures I have heard of either have epilepsy, were tripping, or were divinely blessed with both.

If jesus was a tripper, he was damn good at holding himself in crowds.

If muhammad was a tripper, I want to dose on whatever made him see a bush light on fire.

If Moses was on aya, He would be the Oldest Tripper Ever. I wonder how much he loved having all those cute animals all around him :)

If this is all true.. Religion is someones interpretation of a big ass trip...:D GO FIGURE!
 
picatris said:
geeg30 said:
The makings of an ayahuasca type brew are prevalent in the middle east.
Click to expand...

Do you have sources for that? Please do share!

Thanks!
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Syrian rue and acacia trees. Syrian rue has been used for thousands of years as a way to rid the body of parasites etc and it would be quite easy to make a cup from Acacia wood (Shittim or something like that in biblical terms). Rue + Acacia = trip
 
g1risMethyl said:
What I have learned from this article:

All the religious figures I have heard of either have epilepsy, were tripping, or were divinely blessed with both.

If jesus was a tripper, he was damn good at holding himself in crowds.

If muhammad was a tripper, I want to dose on whatever made him see a bush light on fire.
Click to expand...
That would be moses and the burning bush not muhammed
If Moses was on aya, He would be the Oldest Tripper Ever. I wonder how much he loved having all those cute animals all around him :)
Click to expand...
Are you thinking of Noah??? According to the bible he was an alcoholic that liked sleeping in the nude (maybe incase he pissed himself)
If this is all true.. Religion is someones interpretation of a big ass trip...:D GO FIGURE!
Click to expand...
Quite possibly - try reading the book of Ezekiel, now that's one bad ass trip.
 
Geeg,

Not only did I make an ass out of myself. But I did it in such a way that you COMPLETELY understood all of the things I was talking about :p

You rock.
 
i think this is deffinately a possibility "moses on aya"

yea but i dont think syrian rue was the ONLY thing that peopel knew of back then.. there are plenty of other maois

ryegrass contains harmine

shepherdia contains THH

elagnus has harman

Calycanthus occidentalis contains harmine

indian hemp dogbane contains harmalol


oh and there are also acacias that contain siginificant amounts of MAOI

specifically acacia complanata: 0.3% alkaloids in leaf and stem, almost all N-methyl-tetrahydroharman, with traces of tetrahydroharman, some of tryptamine


sooo you never ever know
 
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