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multi-dimensionality

Migrated topic.
I'm 100% positive that DMT doesn't "take us" into different dimensions. I'm not stating that, my point resting is... This molecule of sorts, opens up and older instinct in our brains, allowing us to see something that we wouldn't normally see with our own human eyes. It changes perception (in a trivial manner), and shows us what actually lies behind the world that we live in during our everyday lives.
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what your saying is certainly possible and indeed the experience points to such a thing going on. if you are 100% positive you need to prove it otherwise you are relying strictly on information you got from an experience. its also possible thats its a delusion. by delusion i mean not real. SWIM has experienced what SWIM can only explain as other levels of reality or dimensions of reality but SWIM is also open to the possibility that it really could all be a delusion and until proven otherwise SWIM must remain skeptical and objective when traveling these realms.

the concept of delusion and reality under the influence of psychedelics is a complex one and ties into many scientific and mystical concepts about reality and the mind which we simply do not yet have the answers for. for example there is a chance that there is no such thing as other dimensions. yes modern theoretical physics is making a strong case for the presence of other dimensions but it has not panned out experimentally yet. could the DMT or psychedelic experience be used as a tool to determine if there are in fact other dimensions? perhaps I think it could but it takes more then just people sitting around smoking it. we need brain imaging high tech measurements of brain activity etc to start to unravel these mysteries. also experiments are going on to try and prove the existence of multiple dimensions which will be very exciting.
 
again, I feel as though we are talking words that mean nothing. Complexity within nothing is daunting; almost a whole other world. Yet I say this and you know nothing of what I speak of, but I do. What. Its gotta be one of us, but who.

If it were you not me. Then I would say it is us, and nothing more.

..on that note - what happens when we dream? We have our eyes closed but we see. We don't see where we are because we cant see, so what do we see. hmm

multiii-dimensionalalityy. hmm
 
Blerf... down to Descartes opinions, it somewhat sucks but we'll never know whether the real world exists without us or it's all a fabrication of our brains.

You think you're typing on DMT Nexus forum? Naaa, you're in a psychiatric hospital with your hands tied back, your parents still concerned about your total loss of contact with reality, medication hasn't helped at all so far....

But who cares? I like what I am and enjoy what I do whether I imagine it all or not!
 
So there are two issues here; 1- human perception and how it works, related to the question about certainty of perceptions and more speciffically wether or not there is any truth in perceptions on DMT;2- the dimensional aspects of reality in the physical sense.
Like it's said ,referring to descartes, believing reality is in the end a choice, since there can be no absolute certainty on the question:"is all this maybe just a dream?". This leaves open, that when most people accept reality, there might be uncertainty left within this reality that we have accepted, itself. When you have to defend yourself in court against some accusation, when you're confronted with the evidence, you don't defend yourself saying:"you're honor, this might be all just a dream".
So it remains open if DMT experiences tell us something on the world outside ourselves, although we ourselves and the world we percieve are part of the same complex that is a perception, so at least the subject and the object must share something physical in order for it to be possible to interact. if it would be two completely seperated worlds there could be no perception. The subject and the object must be part of the same world. The hallucinogenic experience is somewhat excluded from this remark, since it is often so hard to distingiush just, what kind of objective truth triggers a certain revelation.
The real physical multidimensional aspect of our world is left out of this discussion, except from the fact that it is possible to comprehend the phenomenon of multidimensionality. The idea that the human mind would not be able to comprehend this aspect is partly wrong. We will never understand the full reality of things, but on the basis of those aspects we do understand and within the limits that this context allows, we are able of drawing a 'true' picture of things. Like i said before, and this is a remark against Descartes "proof of the existence of god" and the classical subject/pbject divide, if the subject and the object would be of a totally different nature, it would be impossible for one of them to set the other in motion, it would be impossible for one to be touched by the other, so perception of it, itself would be impossible.
 
also, you know when you dream and you interact with people in your dreams..well you dont hear them because its in your head but you know what they're saying.
 
Invoking the Cartesian dilema here is kinda inappropriate.

Having a psychadelic experience of amazing sensory and emotional power is enough to convince you that you've seen into other dimensions. Real places that you ordinarily are not equiped to see without a massive flood of introduced tryptamines. Part of this is that the experience is so amazingly complex and unexpected that it is hard to come to terms with the notion that your imagination is so powerfull.

At the same time you can entertain the notion that you are imaging everything in the universe.
 
40oztofreedom said:
I'll put everything the simplest way I can put it.

I'm 100% positive that DMT doesn't "take us" into different dimensions. I'm not stating that, my point resting is... This molecule of sorts, opens up and older instinct in our brains, allowing us to see something that we wouldn't normally see with our own human eyes. It changes perception (in a trivial manner), and shows us what actually lies behind the world that we live in during our everyday lives.

There lies a lot behind what we can actually see.
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An older instinct? Our sensory modalities evolved to allow us to navigate our environment, get food and breed. The psychadelic experience is only good for the last one ;) It is likley that creatures with simpler brains perceive far fewer details in the environment, both sober and loaded.
 
smokeydaze said:
..on that note - what happens when we dream? We have our eyes closed but we see. We don't see where we are because we cant see, so what do we see. hmm
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Vision occurs in the back of the cortex. Imagine what would happen if this part of your brain stopped communicating with your eyes and started communicating randomly with your whole central nervous system at once. Imagine the extreme synasthesia! What if you saw into your whole pile of abstract language based knowledge. That would have to look fantastic yet strangely familiar.
 
deedle-doo said:
40oztofreedom said:
I'll put everything the simplest way I can put it.

I'm 100% positive that DMT doesn't "take us" into different dimensions. I'm not stating that, my point resting is... This molecule of sorts, opens up and older instinct in our brains, allowing us to see something that we wouldn't normally see with our own human eyes. It changes perception (in a trivial manner), and shows us what actually lies behind the world that we live in during our everyday lives.

There lies a lot behind what we can actually see.
Click to expand...

An older instinct? Our sensory modalities evolved to allow us to navigate our environment, get food and breed. The psychadelic experience is only good for the last one ;) It is likley that creatures with simpler brains perceive far fewer details in the environment, both sober and loaded.
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I was stating the older conciousness and inner awareness.

Before humanity ever started dumbing down our brains with television, and corruption. Becoming one with nature. I was stating the conciousness awareness, not the actual physical senses which are now far more developed because of evolution.

Think of the way monks and shamans live. Far more developed concienciously than most other modern humans.
 
So we agree (maybe) that the DMT molecule doesn't function as some kind of 'stargate' but that it does alter our consciousnous temporarily in such a way that it allows us to become more aware of inner dimensions. This would be my view anyway.
We also know that our senses can deceive us, but only to a certain extend. We know that there is a perception and that it must come from somewhere and that the source of the perception must be as real as ourselves; when we all would be plugged into the matrix, the source would be probably a flow of electrons coming from a computer.
Multi-dimensionality is something that does exist. the question is if our neural network is capable of generating an electrical pattern that corresponds or can coorespond sufficiently with the physical world and it's complexities, for us to be able to say anything about this world and for instance it's dimensional properties.
The fundamental 'cartesian' uncertainty is, like mentioned, something that requires a 'leap of faith' to be dealt with. So when this world really exists then, are we able to say anything about it?
There is another principle that refer's to a basic uncertainty, but of a comlete different nature. The Heisenberg uncertainty principle.
It tells us that we are only capable of knowing one aspect of reality at a time, so perceiving one aspect of this complex world, we automaticcaly neglect another aspect. This principle stretches to even the most remote corner of our daily lives. But it is two sided. On those things we can be certain about, once we know the contextual limitations of our model, we can have a model that does correspond with reality. We can make correct predictions as long as we stay within the lines of the model. For instance, we can build a house using euclidian geometric principles as long as the house is not too big, if we would build a house so big that it's box shape would start to become incommensurable with the sphere shape of the earth, the euclidian geometry would no longer aply, but that it realy works well without contradicting itself at any moment for houses of normal size, everybody agrees on.
 
So we agree (maybe) that the DMT molecule doesn't function as some kind of 'stargate' but that it does alter our consciousnous temporarily in such a way that it allows us to become more aware of inner dimensions. This would be my view anyway.
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but are the inner dimensions keys to some kind of star gate? or rather portals to look in and say hi. whats really inside our inner self and how far does it go?
 
That's my question exactly. I suspect that our inner world is somehow a reflection of the universe, but this is just a suspicion. Key to this supsicion is the fact that our brain has evolved naturally, as well by evolution (the brain itself), as by learning from the world around us (our own brains).
So this question brings forth the questions on certainty that are mentioned before. Is the world inside a reflection of anything real and if so, is it a pure or correct reflection? I would say yes to the first question, but that's a personal choice (although one we all have made or we would not be participatinmg on one of these forums)
On the second i would say that we are partly correct, but never entirely.
 
^My thoughts exactly. I would say that the world within us is correct or close to being correct or our species simply would not have survived to this day. Without a correct perception of the outside environment we wouldhave no idea how the mechanics of this world worked. We would simply die without our inituitive understanding of gravity, temparature etc.

I believe that my own brain may actually be part of some much larger system and my own mind only exists to preserve what is essentialy a sense organ for this larger system. A good analogy would be to think about how your hand works. You think you have complete control over it, for the most part your thoughts control what it does. However stick your hand into a fire. The pain signal will begin to travel to the brain but before it reaches it's destination an identical signal will travel in a closed loop from your hand to the spinal cord and back the result being that you will immediately jerk away your hand.
Now imagine our brains are basically sense receptors for another. Like our own hand we are simultaenously making decisions towards self preservation while passing on information to the larger brain for further processing.
 
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here's nine dimensions with the tenth being the whole picture.

I never believed in other dimensions or even really heard about them, or understood why we call our dimension 3d or 4d if you include time. After a couple of different experiences I do believe in the other dimensions, not just because of experiences provided by the spirit molecule but also dreams and researching east/west philosophy.
Here is my little explanation of dimensions, some of the ideas are not my own just regurgitated info.

I am here in the 3/4th dimension.

If i go to sleep my consciousness goes from point A. which is waking life to point B. which would be complete connection to the source energy/god/whatever you think our energy comes from during REM sleep.

So between point a and point b there are so many dimensions people on here have said 7(i'm not going to give a specific number but if i did it would be actually be 12-13 total dimensions)

So when i fall asleep i start dreaming on different astral planes lets say the 5th dimension, 6th, 7th, and so on until i reach complete one-ness or REM sleep.

I think that when you smoke deemz or a high enough dose lsd or mushroom experience you are connecting into the one-ness/REM sleep/God energy. But your still awake in this reality, so you will see flashes of this dimension or that when you have your eyes closed mainly.

I have more detailed reasoning behind this statement, which i will explain. The only way to really feel what i'm talking about though would be to experience it. If i tell you about the Beatles for hours and hours and hours you can't tell me you don't like them until you've experience their music, so don't knock it until you've tried it.

Mushrooms connect you into the source at the Root Chakra at the base of the spine, which is associated with basic survival and what not (look into eastern philosophy for exact correspondences between chakras and their associations.)

MDMA connects you in at the heart chakra, which is why people experience so much empathy for the world, and people around them.

LSD connects you in at the Crown or Third Eye or maybe both.

DMT either connects you in at every chakra at once or completely connects your at the Crown or Third Eye.

MDA connects you at the crown or third eye also, this is why people trip on MDA and wonder why they weren't all loved up like on MDMA.

THC or marijuana connects at the root possibly or the crown

So knowing a little bit of the way i think psychedelics MAY work, (these are just ideas put together so take this with a grain of salt) (preferably a grain of crystal from any of the mentioned chemicals above)

There are 7 Chakras and supposedly 7 dimensions between point a and point b. So maybe each chakra is associated with a different astral plane or dimension. From what i have heard from some crazy ass sounding people whom have supposedly made contact with whatever from these dimensions that the highest dimension is pure unconditional love, and every dimension below that is a transition from egoic survival all the way up to unconditional love.

These ideas may sound crazy or whatever but it's mostly reflections of others information all put together in my brain, which may make no sense to any of you, but i have a feeling if you know anything about the chakra system or eastern philosphy (vedic, Tao, Hindu, Buddhist) and experimented with any of the compounds mentioned above then hopefully this will connect some blanks spots between the seen and unseen.

also if any of this makes sense to anyone and they think that a certain chemical goes with a certain chakra i would love to hear about it
 
lifeRIVER36 said:
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MDMA connects you in at the heart chakra, which is why people experience so much empathy for the world, and people around them.

LSD connects you in at the Crown or Third Eye or maybe both.

DMT either connects you in at every chakra at once or completely connects your at the Crown or Third Eye.

MDA connects you at the crown or third eye also, this is why people trip on MDA and wonder why they weren't all loved up like on MDMA.

THC or marijuana connects at the root possibly or the crown
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I think that all entheogens operate on the crown chakra. If you think of the crown chakra as basically representing your brain and parts of your CNS, then entheogens activate these.


Some, like DMT and LSD, are just stronger than others (i.e., MJ).

Activating your crown chakra first puts you in contact with your own fears, issues and repressions. If you can get beyond those, then you begin to get in touch with what I call the Fabric of Consciousness (a.k.a. your higher self). Though how well you do when you get in touch with that higher consciousness depends on personal factors like mental health, prior training, how well you understand what you're contacting, etc.

just my .02 cents.

m
 
i dont see personal experiences as proof of other dimensions. although perhaps personal and psychedelic experience can make us more aware or put us into direct awareness of these dimensions until we prove that other dimensions really do exist we cannot say for sure. people are working on proving the existence of other dimensions and with time we will know the answer. acccording to string theory there should be 11? dimensions, other ideas may come along. i dont see the connection with chakras and other dimensions however. i admit i dont get that kind of talk though i think in terms of energy and chemicals. however having experienced these so called higher levels of reality certainly makes such things seem likely. i just think our language and science must advance to make things more clear until then speculation is good as well as the development of techniques to induce states that allow access to these other levels of reality is also good but absolute acceptance of belief without evidence is where things can tend to go wrong.
 
burnt said:
i dont see personal experiences as proof of other dimensions. although perhaps personal and psychedelic experience can make us more aware or put us into direct awareness of these dimensions until we prove that other dimensions really do exist we cannot say for sure. people are working on proving the existence of other dimensions and with time we will know the answer. acccording to string theory there should be 11? dimensions, other ideas may come along. i dont see the connection with chakras and other dimensions however. i admit i dont get that kind of talk though i think in terms of energy and chemicals. however having experienced these so called higher levels of reality certainly makes such things seem likely. i just think our language and science must advance to make things more clear until then speculation is good as well as the development of techniques to induce states that allow access to these other levels of reality is also good but absolute acceptance of belief without evidence is where things can tend to go wrong.
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what more proof do you need? sometimes you cant know everything, somethings are a mystery, you cant always fully understand things. Its like wheres our proof that the clouds exist? you fuckingh walk outsidee.. wheres dmts proff.. you fucking smoke.
Just like if there were a heaven, you cant prove it, you just go there..
I mean weve all broken through, it exists, its happening in our minds, so therefore its real.
we may never be able to actually go there like we go places here on earth, simply because this is another dimension, the same rules dont apply.
You see scientists dont want to learn about this type of thing with drugs, we cant even study these substances!!! they try to prove things with the small, limited idea we call science. Hoffman said, A natural scientist whos not a mystic is not a natural scientist.
 
burnt said:
i dont see personal experiences as proof of other dimensions. although perhaps personal and psychedelic experience can make us more aware or put us into direct awareness of these dimensions until we prove that other dimensions really do exist we cannot say for sure. people are working on proving the existence of other dimensions and with time we will know the answer. acccording to string theory there should be 11?
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I don't think we're going to be able to "prove" the existence of other dimensions with the current primitive methodologies of science. The problem is trying to look for something that's outside our universe with instrumentation made from things in our universe. What you need to do is connect with a perspective "outside" the universe and then you can start to know these higher truths. You have to be careful though. Internal knowing is not foolproof and you have to develop your understanding, but I believe that's possible.

burnt said:
i dont see the connection with chakras and other dimensions however.
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I don't think there is a direct one. Think of your crown chakra as = your brain. Entheogens activate dormant capacities in your brain and allow you to connect to the Fabric of Consciousness (the ground of all reality). It's mind expansion. Alternatively, if you think of your brain like an empty glass, and consciousness like water, then entheogens help you pour water into the glass. It's part psychotherapy, part normal maturation of the physical unit.

burnt said:
experienced these so called higher levels of reality certainly makes such things seem likely. i just think our language and science must advance to make things more clear until then speculation is good
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Ya I agree with that. We do need a language to describe this stuff. i don't know about science though. Science is kinda stuck in it's naive materialist view of the world and it will be tough to break it out of that

m
 
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