Mushroom growkit colonization (grow log)

[ॐ]

I'm still a bit concerned about the blue spot.

hard to tell for sure, but looks strange -- i suggest you get a sterilised spoon and dig it out (along with a bit of the substrate it's growing from) as soon as possible -- it's worth losing one shroom for the peace of mind

Thanks again for your replies and thorough explanations, this thread has been very helpful for me so far

I just dug out the strange blue looking mushroom. I rinsed off the verm and as I suspected it seems like it was just bruised. Still, it's just one mushroom lost and like you said, it's well worth the peace of mind. I was really starting to fear contamination, so it's a huge relief to confirm it was nothing after all.

Most of the information I have gathered says that these pins can really take a sprint of growth all of a sudden. Is there a specific trigger for this? How and when does the mycelium decide to really crank up the growth of these pins? Comparing the pictures I can really see some good growth every day, especially in what used to be the tinier pins. They're all about the same size now, except for a few. The larger ones seem to be remaining about the same size though. Could it be that it is still working on developing all these pins, and that they start zooming up once they have all sort of leveled out? Again, this is my first time watching these guys grow, so this could be pure nonsense. I'm just intrigued what really causes the mycelium to kick the fruiting process into higher gear

 

[lidea]

How and when does the mycelium decide to really crank up the growth of these pins?

i don't know how, but it's the same with some wild fungal species (including edible mushrooms and small puffballs): a green field one day, and the next day covered in white fungi big enough to pick for eating -- one of nature's mysteries


it's what usually happens with shrooms when conditions are right -- temperature and moisture are obviously important; however there could be other factors involved, such as light (they like some diffuse light, but the concensus is that they shouldn't be exposed to direct sunlight), CO2, substrate acidity, barometric pressure etc -- whatever it is, with most flushes one night they're all small, and the next morning they've doubled in size (both height and width)

i don't know whether they're communicating with each other, or whether it's because they're all clones and are therefore reacting the same way to external stimuli, or both -- (communication could be gaseous from the stems or caps, or it could be via the mycelial network) -- i've not seen any research on this, but it's probably out there somewhere

 

[ॐ]

The past few days I have seen some white cotton-like fuzz develop at the base of some of the mushrooms. I'm pretty sure it's just mycelium, but I googled around for more info anyway. I found the following post in a discussion about the common misidentification of cobweb mold:

White Fuzz Is Good!

PURE WHITE FUZZ that grows on cakes, verm layers, casings, the bases of shrooms (even on caps!) is a very good sign. White Fuzz is an indicator of strong metabolic activity. This mycelia needs to breath: Fan Frequently

4-5 Fannings a day is not overboard when you see lots of White Fuzz. (Funny thing: frequent fanning is the #1 preventive of cobweb, go figure)

I guess I will be following that advice and fan more often. So far I'm only fanning once a day when I mist. I will try and step that up to 4-5 times a day.

 

[Kobranek]

The two factors that initiation pinning are light and carbon dioxide/oxygen concentration. During incubation you want the mycelium to be in complete darkness with a temperature close to eighty degrees fahrenheit and once the substrate is completely colonized that is when you want to initiate fruiting by exposing to natural/artificial light and start fanning to get the carbon dioxide out and oxygen in the grow box.
If any one these two variables are implemented too early the mycelium could start pinning prematurely....I'm guilty of this my first grow I was looking at my pf jars multiple times throughout the day. Aint nothing slower than watching mycelium grow! Good luck sounds promising so far!

 

[lidea]

The past few days I have seen some white cotton-like fuzz develop at the base of some of the mushrooms.

when it appears at the base of the stems, it can indicate that the air is very moist -- not really a problem -- just a reminder not to spray the stems, and that the substrate should be damp rather than wet

 

[ॐ]

The past few days I have seen some white cotton-like fuzz develop at the base of some of the mushrooms.

when it appears at the base of the stems, it can indicate that the air is very moist -- not really a problem -- just a reminder not to spray the stems, and that the substrate should be damp rather than wet

I'm really sort of flying blind as to the conditions at the moment. I have no idea how to even remotely gauge the relative humidity without a meter. I am just trying to crank the temperatures inside my house up as much as I can, and make sure there is enough moisture inside the bag. The water that I was instructed to put inside the plastic bag is still sitting at the bottom, and I don't know what I should do with that. Should I just let it sit, is it better to change it every few days or so to prevent contamination, or should I just get rid of it altogether and rely solely on misting once daily? The instructions that came with the kit didn't say anything about getting rid of this, so I've kept it inside since I figure it can't really do any harm since it is far away from direct contact with anything and can only evaporate, which is beneficial.

I know that most people use fruiting chambers with damp perlite at the bottom, but I don't have the materials at hand at the moment (definitely going to be building myself one for my next grow though!), soI'm just going to try and mature these mushrooms with the kit I got, no reason to change tactics when I'm more than halfway there, right?
So I have that bottom layer of water in the bag that provides moisture, but the instructions said to mist daily as well when fruiting, so that's what I've been doing the past 4-5 days. Just once in the morning, a fine mist over the entire box (it's pretty much impossible not to hit the mushrooms themselves though) and then a bit of mist against the walls of the bag, though not at all excessively. There isn't any water puddling at the top of the box at all (in fact it's even hard to see if the verm is moist at all), I'm really just misting it as little and as fine as I can once a day. Maybe I should cut down one the misting even more just to see what happens?
I've been fanning a bit more the past few days, though I've been wondering if it isn't counter-productive to open up the bag 3 or 4 times a day to completely air it out for a minute. Everything's still going well, so I'm guessing that's fine.

I've just poked two -very- small airholes on opposite sides of the bag just above the top layer to provide just a tinyt bit more air exchange, since I'm now really just relying solely on fanning and the one filter for FAE (and there is an 8-9 hour period where I can't fan since I am at work during the day). Temperatures are in the lower regions at the moment (~18-20°C), so that is probably one of the main reasons why things are going so slow. I'm going to try and move the kit to a different (smaller) room that I can heat up more efficiently (hopefully up to 21-22°C), so hopefully that will be an improvement.

Still seeing a little bit of growth every day though (both in length and width), though nothing dramatic. On a side note, one of the pins that grew against the side of the box underneath the vermiculite has finally found its way outside, and it's the most luscious one of them all so far. I will increase the temperatures as best as I can and just wait it out. I'm guessing it's going to at least take about two more weeks. I'll post some more photos in the weekend to show some progress

I am patient though, and in the meantime I've been reading Stamets' Growing Gourmet And Medicinal Mushrooms, which has been very informative so far

 

[lidea]

I'm really sort of flying blind as to the conditions at the moment. I have no idea how to even remotely gauge the relative humidity without a meter.

it's plenty moist enough if you're getting condensation on the sides of the bag so that it's misty and not easy to see through, but if it's condensing and dripping down the sides in small streams then it's probably too wet

The water that I was instructed to put inside the plastic bag is still sitting at the bottom... Should I just let it sit...

yes, the water just sits there -- if it dries up add some more -- condensation from the water in the bag ensures the air in the bag doesn't get dry -- it should last for a flush without any contamination -- after an initial soak, if there's water in the bag, then any extra spraying may not be necessary unless the surface of the substrate gets dry -- urban tap water is clean (in theory) cos chemicals such as chlorine are added to kill "germs" -- however it's worth boiling the water first (and letting it cool down) to make sure it's sterile (and if there's an excess of chlorine it'll be boiled off)

I know that most people use fruiting chambers with damp perlite at the bottom...

kits using bags containing water are fairly new, so most of the info and instructions for kits refer to the older method (which needs perlite and an external small aquarium style pump to supply a stream of moist air into the germinating chamber) -- i think kits from the Netherlands now usually come with bags (?)

in fact it's even hard to see if the verm is moist at all

you can use a sterilised teaspoon to take just a small pinch from the surface and then feel it

the instructions said to mist daily as well when fruiting...

maybe best carry on as you are so you've got something definite to compare with if you try different things another time -- (i think if there's water in the bottom of the bag, and condensation is naturally forming on the sides of the bag, and the substrate isn't dry, then misting probably isn't so necessary)

I've been fanning a bit more the past few days, though I've been wondering if it isn't counter-productive to open up the bag 3 or 4 times a day to completely air it out for a minute.

it seems quite a lot of fanning (especially if the bag has an air filter) -- (the air inside does get quite stale with later flushes and can be a bit smelly -- the substrate doesn't look as nice either lol) -- generally once shrooms start growing they're quite hardy and can put up with with a wider range of conditions

Temperatures are in the lower regions at the moment (~18-20°C)

try and get it up to 25 -- different strains have different optimum temperatures ranges -- but 25-27 is good for most -- the whole bag can be placed in a standard seed germinator (without it's lid) which has a low temperature heating element in the bottom -- it needs to be raised off the bottom of the germinator by an inch or so (eg with bits of polystyrene foam or whatever) so that the surrounding environment is warm without the bottom of the kit getting hot -- (the temperature is controllable using an HGA thermo-timer or similar, but an ordinary thermometer under the bag will give you a good enough idea of what's happening)

I'm guessing it's going to at least take about two more weeks.

even if you don't up the heat, i reckon it'll be less

 

[ॐ]

try and get it up to 25 -- different strains have different optimum temperatures ranges -- but 25-27 is good for most -- the whole bag can be placed in a standard seed germinator (without it's lid) which has a low temperature heating element in the bottom -- it needs to be raised off the bottom of the germinator by an inch or so (eg with bits of polystyrene foam or whatever) so that the surrounding environment is warm without the bottom of the kit getting hot -- (the temperature is controllable using an HGA thermo-timer or similar, but an ordinary thermometer under the bag will give you a good enough idea of what's happening)

For later grows I will definitely do this (or something similar). It's been a relative pain relying solely on the themostat to try and heat the room up as much as possible (not to mention costly). I'll see if I can find something like that for later flushes. When I'm moving on to PF tek, I will definitely take the time to build a good incubator (which I guess works like you described). If you have any experience with a shotgun fruiting chamber, what would you recommend to keep temperatures in the ideal range? I've read that you really shouldn't heat a shotgun FC up and that it works well in room temperatures, but where I live room temperature is around 17-18°C, which is just too cold.



Alright, important update today

The largest shroom of them all took a big spurt of growth today, increased quite a bit in size while I was at work today, and the cap seems to be opening up.
However, none of the other ones have shown particular growth, they seem to be roughly the same size as a couple of days ago. They still look pretty healthy and most of them have big clumps of fluffy mycelium around the base of the stems, so I don't think they will abort yet. There are a bunch of clusters that have yet to grow. I guess the big one only needs a little bit longer (possibly tomorrow) before harvesting, is it okay to just pick this one mushroom and leave the others so that they too will hopefully grow? The mycelium at the base of the stems seems like a positive sign at least, the largest pins seemed to grow faster once this appeared, although these little ones had already developed it around 3 days ago, and have since not grown at all it seems. Would picking the big mushroom have an impact, in the sense that the mycelium will start to focus its attention on developing the other pins now?

Quite a bit of the smaller ones show blueing at the stem, some even on the cap. The information I've found is very conflicting, ranging from dried out substrate to swamped substrate, or the RH being too low. I skipped misting for a day and noticed pretty much no growth at all, and then I misted lightly yesterday evening and today again in the morning, and when I got back home this evening that one mushroom took a huge sprint of growth. I'll just keep misting good once a day, and fan 3-4 times a day, and see what happens I guess.

I have read that the psiloc(yb)in is developed in the early stages of pinning, so even non-mature pins should contain roughly the same amount as fully mature mushrooms (hence why most people agree that aborts are very potent despite their size and weight). I have read of many people picking their mushrooms when they are about 3/5th mature, since they are about equally potent and then more nutrients remain to benefit later flushes. Of course I would rather keep my grow going and hopefully see the majority of the small pins mature into beautiful fruits, but this fact helps keep my mind at ease should they decide to abort in the end.

 

[ॐ]

I am going to pick the large one today, and get it dried with dessicant.
Still quite worried about the smaller ones though. Does anyone think they will still grow? Half of them are getting seriously blue (mostly the absolute tiniest ones), the other half still look as healthy as ever, but none have shown any growth the past 3-4 days. Their caps are all still dark brown (but not turning black yet).


Does anyone have any advice?

 

[lidea]

If you have any experience with a shotgun fruiting chamber...

sorry, can't help you there

is it okay to just pick this one mushroom and leave the others so that they too will hopefully grow?

yes, if it's way ahead of the rest then i'd pick it

The mycelium at the base of the stems seems like a positive sign at least...

i'm not so sure -- there's a lot of it! can you dig out a a small amount of the verm from below the surface and check? if it's not dry i think you should up the temperature and stop the misting -- do you have radiators you can place it close to? or a small space which can be heated with an electric heater? -- you have water in the bag, and that will keep the air plenty moist enough

Quite a bit of the smaller ones show blueing at the stem, some even on the cap.

sometimes the blue is from bruising, sometimes the blue just happens at the base of stems, and sometimes it's contamination -- blue (or dark brown) caps is worrying

even non-mature pins should contain roughly the same amount... should they decide to abort in the end

as long as they're not contaminated! NB very small pins when dried shrink to the point of near invisibility

Still quite worried about the smaller ones though. Does anyone think they will still grow? Half of them are getting seriously blue

doesn't look good -- they should have started spurting by now

Does anyone have any advice?

as i said earlier, if the verm isn't dry then raise the temp and stop the misting -- i hadn't realised your temp was only ~20 -- i reckon this is too low, especially if there's over-watering -- the shrooms don't seem as resistant to bacteria and other fungi

however it could be you're just unlucky -- occasionally a kit will arrive already contaminated -- have you been using sterile gloves and a mask from the start? breathing over the kit is definitely not recommended! also if you're opening the kit up several times a day, then it ought to be done in a very clean environment (certainly not a kitchen or an eating area or where animals have access -- if nowhere suitable them maybe you can take them to a bathroom when you need to open them up? (especially if it's clean, tiled, bare floor, and there's no dirty towels or clothes there -- it's said that the air can be cleansed by spraying with isopropyl alcohol) -- it's best if you use a small area which is self-enclosed so you can keep it clean -- bare walls washed down with bleach, uncarpeted etc

 

[lidea]

looking at the pics, there's a chance some of them will still shoot up, but i don't like the look of the smaller blue/grey ones -- i reckon it'll be difficult getting a second flush -- but i've been wrong enough times in the past when trying to predict such things

 

[Cephalocin]

The pin inducing factors are evaporation, and higher oxygen/less carbon dioxide levels. Mycelium only needs 0.01 seconds of light to know which direction to grow, but once in fruiting stage, exposure to light is unnecessary (ambient light during the day works fine).

From your last pic it looks like your tub is way too wet. I would stop misting completley if I were you (until the vermiculite layer on top looks dry, then mist the sides of the bag gently. Once pins have sprouted a common mistake for first timers is to keep misting, but once the pins are forming, it is best to only mist lightly when it looks like it needs it. FAE (Fresh Air Exchange) is much more important than misting at the pinning/fruiting stage. The pins that do not grow much and caps that turn black are aborts (they are edible so save them), however I am not sure about the fruits that have bruised... Over saturation of moisture can invite bacterial contams like nobodies business.

Also many people I know who are growers actually prefer to fruit at temps of 62-71 degrees Fahrenheit (17-22 degrees Celsius). It takes a little longer for fruits to grow, but there seems to be a noticeable increase in potency. You want 80 degrees Fahrenheit (27 degrees Celsius) for jars (or tubs in bulk teks) while mycelium is colonizing the substrate.

When doing it on your own next time, PF cakes are a great way to learn, but do not produce as much as bulk teks (your kit is a bulk). Here is a great tek: Bulk For Beginners (Not sure if links to other sites are allowed here, if not may a moderator please remove it or pm me)

After this first flush you should definitely dump the stagnant water, as well as dunk your mycelium for 12 hours in distilled water to rehydrate it (completely submerge it, it will want to float so put something on top to weigh it down). I like to add a capful of hydrogen peroxide to the water just to lower the risk of any contams present in the sub taking over and ruining your project. While that is re-hydrating, give your bag and plastic tub a very thorough wipedown with rubbing alcohol. Dry with a paper towel. Then place the mycelium back into the tub and recover with vermiculite, then mist again as you did with the first flush (albeit a little less).


Best of luck! On the plus side, you have fruits! :d

 

[infinitynlove]

The biggest factors in pinning are Temperature, humidity and FAE (fresh air exchange)

If your temp is too high they won't fruit / pin! if you want to kick start a flush, put in the fridge for 24 hours prior! mushrooms fruit when the temperature drops, so beware of your fruiting chamber getting to warm.

For PF tek humidity should be 97% and above
For trays and bulk grows humidity should be about 90%

The more FAE the better just make sure it doesn't dry out, you could induce FAE with a coolmist humidifier pumped right in then you have the FAE and the humidity perfect!

Light is not that important, mushrooms do not photosynthesize. Floresnt light or standard indoor incandescent light will be fine.

My friend has grown many bloomers in her past and thought she would pass on this knowledge.

Hope it helps

Peace

 

[ॐ]

Thanks for the replies everyone. For my next attempt I am definitely building a better fruiting chamber, and also getting an analog hygrometer (the digital ones are supposedly inaccurate) to keep a close eye on the RH. It's pretty much guesswork for me right now, I just try to keep the temperatures high and keep an eye on the condensation on the sdes.

I picked the single full-grown mushroom, it's drying right now. I'm going to take the advice and stop misting for a while and start fanning more. I have placed the kit closer to the radiator in the room. I'll just keep the kit going for a while longer and we'll see what happens. If things start looking bad I will just harvest all the pins, clean out the bag, dunk the mycelium and wait for hopefully a better second flush (if anything at all). Still crossing my fingers that just maybe a few of these will still mature though.

So far I've learned a lot though, I'm sure my next grow I will do things differently, and things will go much better.

 

[Cephalocin]

I would keep it out of heat, room temperature is fine for where you are at right now in the process. Unless your room is colder than normal. :thumb_up:

 

[ॐ]

I have harvested everything earlier this week, since all growth stopped completely.
On the positive side, I think the instructions that came with the kit were not the best.
I have seen instructions for growkits identical to mine that are very different from the way I did things:
1) fill box completely with water, put on lid, put away for 12 hours
2) pour off all of the water, making sure every drop that has not been absorbed is out of the box to prevent contamination
3) put the box in the mycobag, and put it in a warm environment, not op top of a radiator or in direct sunlight. The bag is not opened again until fruiting (some people still mist every once and again).

This seems to make a lot of sense, and I'm sure this would work far better than not dunking, relying on standing water in the bag for humidity, cutting holes in the mycobag (which seems to be made exactly to maintain optimal humidity and still provide enough fresh air through the filter), and excessive fanning and misting. I've also learned to not put the kit too close to the radiator, but to simply rely on the warmth of the room so it doesn't dry out from the direct heat.

So yeah, I dunked the kit for 12 hours and for now, I've just taped all the holes in the bag shut and placed it in the center of a warm room, and I'm leaving it alone for a while to see if things will go better. Not really expecting much since the first flush was pretty abysmal, but I am seeing a good handful of pins and some clumps of mycelium appearing, so that's hopeful. I've also put the kit in the box it came in, that way the sides of the box are covered up to the lid and the mushrooms will hopefully not grow against the sides as much as last time. I'm curious to see the results to say the least.

 

[lidea]

I have harvested everything earlier this week, since all growth stopped completely. On the positive side...

i like your positive approach

i think you're right that the instructions could have been better and clearer -- your first pictures of pinning looked good -- (tho i'm curious about how the "bruising" took place of the one you removed early on -- it seemed similar to some of those in the last picture?)

the forums of the kit suppliers often have good info re humidity and temperature -- i've noted what others have said here, and i won't argue with that, tho my practice is to try and maintain kits at a temperature of 25-27C throughout -- after the dunking, as long as there's some condensation on the sides of the bag i don't worry too much about drying out -- if i had no other way of keeping the kits warm i'd be ok about suspending the kit over a consistent medium heat source (such as a radiator) as long as it was resting on a couple of pieces of (eg) polystyrene foam acting as insulators (which don't directly conduct the heat) and as long as there was a thermometer under the kit to check the bottom temperature -- (the water in the bag also helps keep the temperature consistent)

anyway, good luck with the second flush, and keep us posted

 

[ॐ]

Things are really looking up.
The 6 or 7 pins that sprouted are much much fatter than the ones from my unsuccesful first flush. They've shown considerable growth the past two days, I'm expecting these to shoot up fast the way they were supposed to all along

Yesterday I also finally bought myself a thermometer (I know right, why didn't I get that sooner?). The temperature has been 19.5-20°C, then I turned up the heat a little notch while I was at work today, and the thermometer showed a good 22°C when I got back in the evening, so that's good. I'm only misting about once every 2 days (only the sides of the mycobag, not the kit itself), and the humidity seems pretty ideal now.

Really expecting to harvest these in about a week or maybe even faster. I'll post some photos if and when they're full-grown. I will remember to dunk next time, I'm pretty confident that first flush would have delivered had I done that.

This feels like christmas :d

 

[lidea]

so far, so good

 

[ॐ]

Another update. I came home to a beautiful mushroom that had doubled in size throughout the day. The smaller pins that seemed to have been relatively dormant also doubled in size, and I'm hoping these are all going to spring forth as lovely fruit soon