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Mushrooms / Psilocin and Psilocybin Workthread

Migrated topic.
benzyme wrote:
for one, the OH has its own pKa. there are three possible species of psilocin at its isoelectric point, none of them above 50%. deprotonating the amine at a pH > 9.37 means giving the OH a negative charge.
since the OH a polar side group with a proton donor and acceptor, it readily absorbs moisture and undergoes autooxidation from air. proximity to the beta carbon likely also gives it unique physical characteristics.
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Infundibulum wrote:
3. No, even psilocybin "freebase" (a loose term here to describe net charge = zero, aka isoelectic point) which exists theoretically at a pH of 4, is still waaaay too polar to be pulled with xylene or other non-polar solvent.
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..so, anyone know what taking the pH to >8 creates? ..what compound would this be?
 
So this is the product so far dried out with MgSO4. It's like a layer of sticky film, just brittle enough to scrape up without any mess. Since I have plenty of hexane I will see if I can remove some gunk with it.
 
Orion said:
So this is the product so far dried out with MgSO4. It's like a layer of sticky film, just brittle enough to scrape up without any mess. Since I have plenty of hexane I will see if I can remove some gunk with it.
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This is as far as I've gotten with this extraction path. I'll be interested to see the results of taking it further! Thanks!
 
Michal_R said:
Very interesting, Orion, thanks for sharing.

(1) Did you weight the gunk?

(2) How many pulls? Just one?
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I didn't weigh the resin as it is not what I intend to finish up with. I only pulled once with methanol as I believe I have already used an excessive amount for the amount of psilocybin in the mix. I just wanted to be sure.

jamie said:
does it smell like indole?
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Nope, but it whiffs of concentrated shrooms.

The hexane 'pull' from the resin got quite cloudy with a little bit of gentle heating in a double boiler, but I have no idea what this may be. Evaporating the hexane has left another oily product, much thinner and tackier than the resin.

In any case, I think acetone would likely do most of the work from this point forward, so I need to get some more.
 
I just weighed the resin and it came to 1.2g. I just ate 120mg of that... Should feel like a gram of shrooms. Might not be that efficient, but we shall see what happens.

*EDIT* Yup barely slight effects as expected on a full stomach without lemon 'tek'.Not sure if something could have been carried but not actually dissolved into the hexane too, so I think I'll recombine that oil with the resin again and clean this up with a ketone. I wouldn't bother with the Hexane again personally, or any nonpolar solvent. Acetone is probably the best bet.
 
..interesting and thanks for the research Orion..

as for what's in there, just wanted to point out that in the 'Hoffman' technique posted earlier here, acetone and chloroform (NP solvent) are used to remove what's not psilocybin..so, the hexane pull would not be the alkaloid..
 
I have a couple grams of cubes that have been soaking in 99% iso for a couple weeks now..I should filter it a couple times and evaporate it and see what kind of stuff I end up with. I have a lot of them to play with now..
 
nen888 said:
..interesting and thanks for the research Orion..

as for what's in there, just wanted to point out that in the 'Hoffman' technique posted earlier here, acetone and chloroform (NP solvent) are used to remove what's not psilocybin..so, the hexane pull would not be the alkaloid..
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Thank you, I saw that, I just wondered if it may have been possible some psilocybin, although not dissolved, could have been 'carried' into the solvent when I rinsed the resin in it. Personally I doubt it, but just to be sure I will recombine what that took out.

Chloroform is difficult for me to obtain but I have heard that psilocin is soluble in xylene, so that would be an extra step. I think If I did this again I would start with the acetone, then xylene, then methanol. Resin is kind of annoying to work with as solvents only contact the outer skin of it.
 
Orion said:
nen888 said:
..interesting and thanks for the research Orion..

as for what's in there, just wanted to point out that in the 'Hoffman' technique posted earlier here, acetone and chloroform (NP solvent) are used to remove what's not psilocybin..so, the hexane pull would not be the alkaloid..
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Thank you, I saw that, I just wondered if it may have been possible some psilocybin, although not dissolved, could have been 'carried' into the solvent when I rinsed the resin in it. Personally I doubt it, but just to be sure I will recombine what that took out.

Chloroform is difficult for me to obtain but I have heard that psilocin is soluble in xylene, so that would be an extra step. I think If I did this again I would start with the acetone, then xylene, then methanol. Resin is kind of annoying to work with as solvents only contact the outer skin of it.
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What about a dual phase solvent defatting, or cleaning of the resin? That would bump up the cleaning ability vs just outer surface area defatting/cleaning. At least with cactus resin, the defatting worked alot better if i dissolved it in water, and washed with heptane and then limonene, vs just washing with those NP's and not dissolving it in water.

I know your standard water/hydrocarbon NP (like naptha/heptane) procedure isn't on the table, as your going to degrade your psilocin/psilocybin by hydrating it, but are there other solvents that would accomplish this without the degradation?

Might just work if you can find something that's polar enough to hold the alkaloid salts in solution, but not degrade them like water does, and a NP solvent that is not miscible with your polar solvent, and doesn't solubulize any of the actives, only the impurities.

I'd imagine there has to be a way using a dry alcohol + some other NP solvent.
 
The Day Tripper said:
What about a dual phase solvent defatting, or cleaning of the resin? That would bump up the cleaning ability vs just outer surface area defatting/cleaning. At least with cactus resin, the defatting worked alot better if i dissolved it in water, and washed with heptane and then limonene, vs just washing with those NP's and not dissolving it in water.

I know your standard water/hydrocarbon NP (like naptha/heptane) procedure isn't on the table, as your going to degrade your psilocin/psilocybin by hydrating it, but are there other solvents that would accomplish this without the degradation?

Might just work if you can find something that's polar enough to hold the alkaloid salts in solution, but not degrade them like water does, and a NP solvent that is not miscible with your polar solvent, and doesn't solubulize any of the actives, only the impurities.

I'd imagine there has to be a way using a dry alcohol + some other NP solvent.
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The problem with that is that non polar solvents like hexane or naphtha really don't remove many impurities from mushrooms. Xylene and acetone mix, but even still, the impurities will likely be much more soluble in the polar phase, so they wouldn't migrate.
 
Orion said:
The Day Tripper said:
What about a dual phase solvent defatting, or cleaning of the resin? That would bump up the cleaning ability vs just outer surface area defatting/cleaning. At least with cactus resin, the defatting worked alot better if i dissolved it in water, and washed with heptane and then limonene, vs just washing with those NP's and not dissolving it in water.

I know your standard water/hydrocarbon NP (like naptha/heptane) procedure isn't on the table, as your going to degrade your psilocin/psilocybin by hydrating it, but are there other solvents that would accomplish this without the degradation?

Might just work if you can find something that's polar enough to hold the alkaloid salts in solution, but not degrade them like water does, and a NP solvent that is not miscible with your polar solvent, and doesn't solubulize any of the actives, only the impurities.

I'd imagine there has to be a way using a dry alcohol + some other NP solvent.
Click to expand...

The problem with that is that non polar solvents like hexane or naphtha really don't remove many impurities from mushrooms. Xylene and acetone mix, but even still, the impurities will likely be much more soluble in the polar phase, so they wouldn't migrate.
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I see where your coming from. Stuff like sugars, and other polar impurities. IIRC, i remember reading about that somewhere before.

I'm beginning to think the reason why there is no well known "high purity" extraction method for mushrooms, is well, because its just not easily done considering the factors involved.

Won't give up hope though 😉
 
Will be doing the acetone rinse some time hopefully this week. Depending on how that goes I might do this again starting with acetone for the reason I mentioned previously.
 
So this is what a day sitting in acetone produced after I recombined the stuff that came up into the hexane. This weighs 0.985mg. The acetone actually removed far less than I thought it would. It has a crumbly waxy texture.
 
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