My exp was a bust, please help pick a new path

[Tony6Strings]

The other day I found myself in the situation of a heavily thc contaminated body and found it interesting to try on top of that 150mg FB unseparated rue harmalas + 90 mg FB spice. I nearly felt nothing more than a nice glow. It was cute. Now I call thc 'the spice killer'

This is interesting. This makes me wonder... Lately I have been feeling like I smoke way too much oil.

 

[tregar]

From "Articulations, On the Utilisation and Meanings of Psychedelics" (2015) by Julian Palmer:

Modern day researchers, spearheaded by people such as myself, have realized that Jonathan Ott's calculations fall short of what most explorers need for a truly visionary experience. Even with a strong harmine/Banisteriopsis caapi dosage, 30-60mg of dmt is not sufficient to produce significant visionary effects in most people. So if fact, a dosage of 30-40mg of dmt is where tryptamine-like effects just begin to occur for most people, and 10-25mg dmt is not really noticeable above the gentle psychoactive effects of the harmine.

Each person is different and for some rare individuals, 30-40mg may be about as much dmt as they wish to take--but most people need at least 60-80mg for sufficient psychoactive effects and even at this dosage, you generally cannot expect a full-blown visionary experience, even when using a strong dose of 4 grams of syrian rue or 100 grams of strong caapi vine. Also, it should be pointed out that going beyond 4 grams of syrian rue (around 200-280mg of harmaline) or 100 grams of strong caapi vine (150--250mg of harmine) can increase the negative effects of these beta-carbolines--which include a feeling of heaviness, pressure in the head, inability to walk properly, more purging and perhaps more of an emphasis on bodily processes.

An oral dosage of 100mg of dmt is where the visionary qualities really begin to occur, for most people say when they are taking 3 grams of syrian rue or 80 grams of strong vine, and in context, 40-60 grams of strong vine is enough to fully mao inhibit most people.

I would say to neophyte explorers to tread carefully, and to slowly increase your dmt dosage in increments: perhaps starting at 60mg, going to 100mg, then 150mg. Some people are going to find 100mg of dmt to be exceedingly strong, and it will perhaps give them an experience they did not feel ready for.

It came to my attention after an embarrassing number of years, that taking freebase crystal DMT orally was not as potent, colourful, or clear as taking the equivalent amount of DMT in a tea that was brewed from the plant. For many years, I couldn't see how there could be a difference, but after doing some comparisons, it was obvious that the tea was much better, and the experiences resulting from the crystalline extract were inferior.

You could take twice or even three times as much DMT crystal as the equivalent in brew, and the experience from the crystal would never be as bright or full as that from the tea. Why could this be?

With extracted dmt, with chemicals used it would appear that some dimensions and qualities of the tryptamine molecules are compromised. Also, there is the factor of isolating the alkaloids from the rest of the plant. For example, there are very few people who say that extracted pure mescaline from the cactus is as potent of full bodied compared to when they take the tea made from the cactus flesh.

When making a tea from the whole plant, you are extracting the essence of the plant intelligence from its very flesh, not just isolating the alkaloids. In the alchemic method "Spagyrics" developed by Paracelsus, often considered the father of modern medicine, the ashes of the plant are commonly burnt and then blended back into an alcohol-extracted tincture. Friends who have experimented with this procedure report that a Spagyric tincture of Ayahuasca is much more potent than a normal tea prepared from the same amount of Ayahuasca vine.

Julian is so right about this, 30g of Hawaiian psychotria which may contain around an estimated 60mg of actives will always be more potent, colorful, clear, all-encompassing then the same amount or even double that amount in extracted actives. This is a mystery that may never be solved....

.....there is just something about the natural plant form of the leaf actives in the brew that allow the natural plant-based salt form to sky-rocket in strength and be assimilated via an enhanced digestion process into receiving a whopper of an experience as compared to extracted actives. Those who have been to an actual real Ayahuasca session or who have dreamed actual leaf brew with there Caapi will know this. There is an otherworldly strength and power to the experience that is just un-achievable with extracted actives as Julian Palmer writes about above.

So when you are reviewing the literature and see that there may only be an estimated 60mg of "actives" in the Vegetal Church brews...keep in mind that the amount listed is from the actual plant based leaf brew and not extracted actives...This natural form of the leaf actives is actually extremely visionary and mind-blowing unlike what some have speculated earlier in this discussion. This is coming from someone who has dreamed natural Hawaiian leaf over 60 times in ranges from 25g to 35g, it's so visionary for 3 hours you can hardly move from your seated spot due to the intensity. Extracted actives can feel considerably weaker in dreams compared to the natural leaf form of the brew when reduced down to 2oz or so. Again, this is due to the mystery of the dynamics of plant based leaf salf-form of digestion.

The mystery of the "dynamics of enhanced digestion" of this natural form of actives from the leaf is incredibly potent, strong, colorful, all-encompassing, and visionary to the nth degree even when using low amounts of leaf.

 

[tregar]

Only the island psychotria leaf at > 35g was able to instill a paralyzing fear (too much light or admixture) where the walls filled with honeycomb visuals, objects give off neon tracers to infinity (like a hall of mirrors) and the mind filled with the phrase "oh no -- I did it this time", the visionary realm becomes paralyzing where one can hardly move an inch without thousands of new visions filling the visual field. With 35g representing perhaps an estimated 70mg actives, this amount of visionary phenomena and fear just would not happen with the same amount of extracted actives, even at double that amount. There is something extremely special about the actual hot liquid filtered and reduced down plant psychotria brew used as admixture.

It is insanely potent, strong, all-encompassing, and fear-producing at above strong levels (which is typically above 35g). This is territory one is best off never entering--the point of no return it feels like, The visions and visuals are insane and one is gripped in a fear that one has gone too far. Moderate levels of leaf are best (25 to 35g). Going beyond has happened by accident around 8 times out of 60 times...it is not fun and can be quite terrifing, again this is with dreaming actual plant based brew, which is dynamically digested in dreams very efficiently compared to extracted actives--the mystery may never be solved why it works so well and poweful compared to extracted actives--but what Palmer writes is very true in my own dream experience as well as his.

 

[dragonrider]

Maybe it is tannic salts. Maybe tannic salts are simply more potent. This has been speculated by others as the reason why sludge at the bottom of a brew can be so powerfull. It could also explain the differences experienced between chaliponga, mimosa, and chacruna brews.

 

[--Shadow]

930 am, drink my harmalas

945 am, drink 40mgs of spice

I'm not convinced 15mins is long enough to wait after taking your MAOI.
I wait 1hr before drinking the second cup.
Note sure the amounts for the pharma, but I do my Aya using 4g rue seeds and 10g acacia powder, which would roughly equate to 40g Harmalas & 115mg DMT

 

[OneIsEros]

For some strange reason, ayahuasca/anahuasca preparations - especially pharmahuasca - don't hit reliably like other psychedelics. If you eat mushrooms or acid, chances are, you're gonna feel it. Aya/ana/pharma are more of a crap shoot.

The biggest thing that can help is eating some bread. I have seen countless reports (and experienced it myself) where people took their oral dmt concoction, felt nothing for 3 or 4 hours, sat down and ate a sandwich, and suddenly were slammed on their back on the floor being assaulted by Mesopotamian deities explaining the netherworld to their poor unsuspecting ass. Lol.

I find croissants work the best. Don't know why, they just seem to kick it off better than other types of bread. So, next time, buy a croissant, and consume it immediately after your oral DMT concoction (whatever concoction you happen to be using).

Happy trails.

P.S. cannabis and DMT don't seem to get along very well for most people (including me), although some people find they go together well enough. There's exceptions to everything.

 

[downwardsfromzero]

I find croissants work the best. Don't know why,

This is very likely due to the finely dispersed fat content. Maybe Pain au chocolat would also be worth a try

Maybe it is tannic salts. Maybe tannic salts are simply more potent.

This is a good point. Tannates will denature proteins, which would include monoamine oxidase. Other metabolic enzymes are affected, too. I'm thinking of, for example, how epigallocatechin gallate is known to affect the metabolism, and pomegranate ellagotannins are carbonic anhydrase inhibitors which increase the potency and duration of phenethylamines such as amphetamine.