My recipe (that didn't work)

[_bryan]

Ok I lied: It half-worked.

My result was more watery than what I had at ceremony, and MUCH more bitter, and I didn't experience the "colors", so I wonder if I destroyed the DMT.

Here's what I did for 3 cups or 12 x 60 ml shot glasses (3 per night for 4 nights).

• 90 grams jurema bark "as-is" (not ground)
• 15 grams of the 30:1 caapi paste (kept separate until the end)
• 6 liters of water in a HUGE broth pot
• 2 tablespoons white vinegar per 1 liter of water

1. I did a rolling boil of the bark for 3x8 hours.
2. When I would add more water, I added 2 more tablespoons vinegar for each liter.
3. At the end, reduce to 3 cups.
4. Mix in the caapi paste.

It feels like I made three mistakes.

1. Supposed to use 1 tbsp/1 Liter instead of 2 tbsp/1 Liter vinegar to water ratio.
2. Supposed to do a simmer instead of a rolling boil.
3. Supposed to grind up the bark in a coffee grinder.

Can anyone tell me if I'm on the right track with my thought processes?

Do I need to keep adding vinegar as I keep adding water?

Can anyone recommend a kitchen appliance that I can set to "simmer and reduce"?

Thanks for any help.

V/r,
Bryan

 

[Transform]

There's a possibility the caapi extract may not have been strong enough, but your observation on using shredded bark may also be valid. Using too much vinegar won't have been the problem (other than making the brew taste even worse). The DMT should also be fairly robust - boiling rather than simmering won't make much of a difference. It does sound like way too long of a boiling time, and therefore something of a waste of energy too.

Rice cookers and crockpots are good for simmering, but I still wonder if you ought to revise your approach entirely, especially since you'll be consuming rather a large amount of jurema tannins. Refrigeration of your bark tea causes a lot of the tannins to precipitate - more so if you freeze the brew and thaw it out a few times. You can then decant the liquid of before consumption.

Of course, there's not much point in consuming the MHRB brew if you haven't got the MAO inhibition sorted out, so as mentioned in your other thread, you 'd be best to work on your caapi/harmala levels until you're sure you feel something from that, and then slowly introduce some amounts of 'light' herb like jurema, psychotria leaf or whatever to get to the level you want. At a high enough level harmalas can be pretty visionary in their own right. Ensuring that your source material is reliable would be another key point here.

 

[Varallo]

I think you’re lucky that you didn’t get a proper dose of harmalas in you with this dose of mrhb, normally you would want to start at 1 or two grams of mrhb per trip and then slowly increase the dosage of each consecutive trip until you get a feeling of the dose. You start with 15 grams per session , this when the proper amount of harmalas are used is to much for most of the experienced psychonauts.

Next steps are in my opinion to first try the extract on its own and see when you get fully inhibited and trip on the extract alone, then take this dose and add in the mimosa starting at 0.5 grams

Then if that works maybe add another half a gram, in my experience at 5 grams of mimosa with a good amount of caapi it is really hard to no get completely overwhelmed to the point where trip will be very difficult to navigate.

Finally I would advise to brew the mrhb separately and then use that brew in different combinations with the caapi extract to find your preferred ratio and dosage.

Take care

 

[_bryan]

There's a possibility the caapi extract may not have been strong enough, but your observation on using shredded bark may also be valid. Using too much vinegar won't have been the problem (other than making the brew taste even worse). The DMT should also be fairly robust - boiling rather than simmering won't make much of a difference. It does sound like way too long of a boiling time, and therefore something of a waste of energy too.

Rice cookers and crockpots are good for simmering, but I still wonder if you ought to revise your approach entirely, especially since you'll be consuming rather a large amount of jurema tannins. Refrigeration of your bark tea causes a lot of the tannins to precipitate - more so if you freeze the brew and thaw it out a few times. You can then decant the liquid of before consumption.

Of course, there's not much point in consuming the MHRB brew if you haven't got the MAO inhibition sorted out, so as mentioned in your other thread, you 'd be best to work on your caapi/harmala levels until you're sure you feel something from that, and then slowly introduce some amounts of 'light' herb like jurema, psychotria leaf or whatever to get to the level you want. At a high enough level harmalas can be pretty visionary in their own right. Ensuring that your source material is reliable would be another key point here.

Okay the next time I will go up in number of grams of caapi. The paste I got was supposedly 30 to 1, but I'm a bit confused on that topic. I just tried my best.

I can try doing refrigeration cycles, but what does decant mean? I assume putting something hot in the fridge makes some stuff evaporate, I get that part, just not the decant part.

Re: MAO, is this where the vine helps the bark work better in the body? And therefore, is this back to me adding more caapi paste at the last step?

Okay dummy question. Maybe I should have asked this first. Can someone point me to a basic "for dummies" recipe that's like what they did at Rythmia? (Am I allowed to say that name?)

I will go lookup the psychotria leaf (or is that the same as chacruna?) and the harmala. I don't know what those are.

The only reason I used jurema instead of chacruna is because the store I went to was out of chacruna and "Mr Google" told me jurema is about the same but has more DMT.

Am I allowed to say the name of a vendor? Or am I allowed to ask for vendor recommendations?

Thanks everyone for taking the time. I really appreciate it.

V/r,
Bryan

 

[_bryan]

I think you’re lucky that you didn’t get a proper dose of harmalas in you with this dose of mrhb, normally you would want to start at 1 or two grams of mrhb per trip and then slowly increase the dosage of each consecutive trip until you get a feeling of the dose. You start with 15 grams per session , this when the proper amount of harmalas are used is to much for most of the experienced psychonauts.

Next steps are in my opinion to first try the extract on its own and see when you get fully inhibited and trip on the extract alone, then take this dose and add in the mimosa starting at 0.5 grams

Then if that works maybe add another half a gram, in my experience at 5 grams of mimosa with a good amount of caapi it is really hard to no get completely overwhelmed to the point where trip will be very difficult to navigate.

Finally I would advise to brew the mrhb separately and then use that brew in different combinations with the caapi extract to find your preferred ratio and dosage.

Take care

I'm having trouble keeping up.

Where does the 15 grams come from? Are you dividing my 90 grams jurema by something?

I do think I see what you mean by starting caapi paste alone. But how do I know when I've had enough? At Rythmia I remember all night long trying to get up over and over, for hours, and I'd move a muscle and then go limp and fall back down. Is that the caapi doing that? The only "signal" strong enough was having diahrea, which all the sudden my whole body was back to normal and I could go off to the bathroom. For some reason the signal to go poop overrides the effects of the medicine and I'm almost a normal person when I have to go poop. Well not normal, but I can get up and stumble to the bathroom.

Doing my batch at home I felt that a little but not nearly as much. I was basically normal-ish the whole time.

If I understand the caapi right, the caapi is what's supposed to make me groggy?

And then the jurema AKA mimosa is the colors and visions because of the DMT?

What does MRHB mean?

Re: the brewing, I only brewed the tree bark (jurema / mimosa) so I think at least I got that part right.

Okay I'm going to be absorbing this a while. Thanks very much for all your help.

V/r,
Bryan

 

[Varallo]

Am I allowed to say the name of a vendor? Or am I allowed to ask for vendor recommendations?

Nope

Can someone point me to a basic "for dummies" recipe

Read the sticky topics here in this subforum, they will answer all your questions, if then still things are unclear I’ll be happy to help you out. Also use the wiki for basic information about terms and definitions.

like what they did at Rythmia?

I would ask them if they’d be willing to share their approach, from what you’ve described I would say it’s a high harmalas brew low on dmt.

 

[_bryan]

Nope

Read the sticky topics here in this subforum, they will answer all your questions, if then still things are unclear I’ll be happy to help you out. Also use the wiki for basic information about terms and definitions.


I would ask them if they’d be willing to share their approach, from what you’ve described I would say it’s a high harmalas brew low on dmt.

Okay I'm going to start on the sticky topics.

I kind of asked the shaman lady, she was nice, but she recommended against exactly what I'm doing. If I had 5k to spend I'd just go back, but I don't have that kind of money so here I am trying to learn.

I think it's quite a learning curve.

Thanks again.

 

[_bryan]

I just had a thought. I have a bunch of the paste still. I guess I could just add more and measure how much I add.

The only problem is I already changed the total volume from 3 cups to 2 cups. So I would have to do some arithmetic to add some amount that makes sense.

 

[Varallo]

Ahh you’re so fast I have difficulty keeping up. So i will do it short and be in the chat to help you out.

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Where does the 15 grams come from? Are you dividing my 90 grams jurema by something?

Your dividing your brew into 4 sessions so it is 22,5 grams per session, somehow I remember you wrote 60 grams

I do think I see what you mean by starting caapi paste alone. But how do I know when I've had enough?

You feel very much like your tripping, very dreamy and heavy, some mild hallucinations, I would say like you described your previous experience.

At Rythmia I remember all night long trying to get up over and over, for hours, and I'd move a muscle and then go limp and fall back down. Is that the caapi doing that? The only "signal" strong enough was having diahrea, which all the sudden my whole body was back to normal and I could go off to the bathroom. For some reason the signal to go poop overrides the effects of the medicine and I'm almost a normal person when I have to go poop. Well not normal, but I can get up and stumble to the bathroom.

Yes it’s the caapi, from what I hear you say about your experience I would think it’s a caapi heavy brew with only a little bit of dmt.

Doing my batch at home I felt that a little but not nearly as much. I was basically normal-ish the whole time.

The caapi (the active ingredient in caapi are harmalas) was not enough.

I understand the caapi right, the caapi is what's supposed to make me groggy?

Not really that would be the tannins

And then the jurema AKA mimosa is the colors and visions because of the DMT?

Yes

What does MRHB mean?

Mimosa hostilis root bark

Re: the brewing, I only brewed the tree bark (jurema / mimosa) so I think at least I got that part right.

Great so you can adjust your amount to the caapi

 

[Transform]

what does decant mean?

decant meaning at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.

duckduckgo.com

Decantation - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

All About Aya <3

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I looked in the wiki and I'll have to admit, the information about ayahuasca in there is actually rather patchy.

I just had a thought. I have a bunch of the paste still. I guess I could just add more and measure how much I add.

The only problem is I already changed the total volume from 3 cups to 2 cups. So I would have to do some arithmetic to add some amount that makes sense.

The problem here is that you don't really know how strong your caapi extract is. I would advise getting hold of either the vine itself, or Syrian rue seeds (Peganum harmala).

I kind of asked the shaman lady, she was nice, but she recommended against exactly what I'm doing. If I had 5k to spend I'd just go back

While she would undoubtedly also appreciate the extra $5k, she may have had a point in that you appear to be struggling with the simplest of the basics here. Fortunately, with a good amount of background reading you should still be able to grasp all of this.

 

[spyfish]

This is scary to read. Indeed can be very lucky the harmalas likely wasn’t sufficient. 3 grams of good MHBR brew can have me “gone” and unable to get up…..

Be careful, please.

 

[_bryan]

Just FYI everything went fine. I wanted to take some time and reflect before doing anything more.

I used too much vinegar, did the boils incorrectly, didn't do decanting, didn't grind the tree bark, etc.

The brew kiiiiind of worked bust mostly the DMT part didn't affect me (which was my experience from the pros at Rythmia i.e. I never saw too many colors or anything).

Anyway just wanted to allay any fears.

Thanks everyone for your help. I'll try again someday with a bit of extra knowledge.