Need safety information on smoking DMT with seizure disorder

[null24]

It is surprisingly difficult to easily find an answer on whether or not vaped DMT is dangerous to a person with epilepsy/seizure disorder. The person in question has fairly regular seizures, often resulting in full unconsciousness. I'm not sure about her medications other than a long acting benzo called 'omfey'(sp??) which she honestly isn't managing very well.

Most of the info I'm coming across compares the experiences of DMT with seizures, which I'm not interested in. I'm wondering whether or not i should acquiesce to a request, and if not, would like good information to point her to as reasoning for doing so.

Thanks, maybe my search skills are lacking. I can provide more info if necessary.

 

[waitfornever]

I hate to be that guy but you should probably read this first:

DMT-Nexus Wiki:Health and Safety - DMT-Nexus Wiki

wiki.dmt-nexus.me

I personally would stay far away from it.....

 

[coAsTal]

While I know of no specific research saying it would trigger a seizure, it definitely hot-wires the brain for normal people-- I gotta say man, it's a risk.

You could trip a seizure with DMT, or it could have no effect aside from what it normally does.

I'm wondering whether or not i should acquiesce to a request

Are you willing to be responsible if something goes very wrong?

How about this instead: If "she's" so interested in trying spice, then guide her to the places to learn all about it and make her own, like every other traveler.

If she's willing to set upon that path, she can make the efforts to learn and choose.
If not, she'd just looking for an easy high, and laying all the repercussions on *you* to prove it won't hurt *her*. That seems a little off to me.

**EDIT**

I would also add that if this girl is a true friend, she shouldn't be upset with you if you were to turn her down on health risk grounds-- it shows you care.

 

[null24]

Thanks coAsTal. In response, you're right. It's not so much that there's any pressure on me, and she's very reasonable.

And i also hate to be that guy, but i don't see the info I'm looking for in the wiki. That, along with a lack of relevant info in a couple Google searches prompted my post.

 

[coAsTal]

:thumb_up:

Most everything I've seen over the many years I've read on DMT indicates it should be biologically safe for everyone-- my wonder/worry would be (with an epileptic or similar) whether or not the visual center activity experiences during the trip could act as a trigger in a way, like flashing lights or certain colors or surprises can act as triggers for some of those so afflicted.

But if your lady doesn't experience her seizures with known/specific triggers (in other words, seemingly random) I can't think that starting with a low dose (maybe 10-15mg) introduction would (on its own) cause any problems...

It's tricky, but I also suspect there aren't many people that have tried it with 1) those afflictions AND 2) written about the experience online or in an academic/doctoral setting.

I hope you'll keep the community updated as you go forward--

 

[ghrue84]

Write "epilepsy dmt" or "seizure dmt" on the search function of this site. After that pres ctrl+F and type epilepsy or seizure to make your search even easier. You'll find many interesting opinions. Some blaming dmt for seizures, some saying ayahuasca cured their epilepsy, etc.

A few threads:

Semi-Daily DMT Log - Welcome discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

What happens if you don't break through? - Welcome discussion - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus post #15

Friend had a seizure after smoking spice! - DMT Experiences - Welcome to the DMT-Nexus

and many more.

Hope you find what you're looking for.

 

[null24]

coAsTal, just to clarify, she's not my lady, nor a romantic partner :?:

Thanks ghrue, appreciate the search tip. And yes, the info is confusing and entirely anecdotal. I wonder if there is a difference in the oral vs smoked adminstration in this context...

 

[coAsTal]

Didn't mean to imply that-- just an expression of "the lady in question" 8)

 

[corpus callosum]

It is surprisingly difficult to easily find an answer on whether or not vaped DMT is dangerous to a person with epilepsy/seizure disorder. The person in question has fairly regular seizures, often resulting in full unconsciousness. I'm not sure about her medications other than a long acting benzo called 'omfey'(sp??) which she honestly isn't managing very well.

Most of the info I'm coming across compares the experiences of DMT with seizures, which I'm not interested in. I'm wondering whether or not i should acquiesce to a request, and if not, would like good information to point her to as reasoning for doing so.

Thanks, maybe my search skills are lacking. I can provide more info if necessary.

A seizure disorder needs classifying more closely before being able to comment on whether or not vaped DMT is (unacceptably) more hazardous than it would be in the absence of such a disorder.

Could you provide more info?

What is the "full title" of her disorder? Is it primary, or secondary to some other issue?

If she is having fairly regular seizures then this suggests sub-optimal control; we need info re her meds/dosages/compliance.

 

[Hailstorm]

She could ask the M.D. treating her, assuming there is mutual trust, to help find relevant research that discusses the effects of hallucinogens, especially tryptamines, on patients with similar symptoms. Doctors can be unwilling to give straight recommendations, for liability reasons, but they sometimes have access to difficult to obtain publications.

 

[null24]

It is surprisingly difficult to easily find an answer on whether or not vaped DMT is dangerous to a person with epilepsy/seizure disorder. The person in question has fairly regular seizures, often resulting in full unconsciousness. I'm not sure about her medications other than a long acting benzo called 'omfey'(sp??) which she honestly isn't managing very well.

Most of the info I'm coming across compares the experiences of DMT with seizures, which I'm not interested in. I'm wondering whether or not i should acquiesce to a request, and if not, would like good information to point her to as reasoning for doing so.

Thanks, maybe my search skills are lacking. I can provide more info if necessary.

A seizure disorder needs classifying more closely before being able to comment on whether or not vaped DMT is (unacceptably) more hazardous than it would be in the absence of such a disorder.

Could you provide more info?

What is the "full title" of her disorder? Is it primary, or secondary to some other issue?

If she is having fairly regular seizures then this suggests sub-optimal control; we need info re her meds/dosages/compliance.

Thank you for responding, CC.

I am not sure why, but when I asked, she did not seem to have "full title" other than epilepsy. She said her doctor called her seizures ideopathic, and i don't know what that means. The only med i know of that she takes for it is called "omfey", spelled phonetically. Her meds are not very well-regulated and she isn't the greatest at self-care unfortunately.

I know her seizure are clonic-tonic and ususally result in a complete loss of consciousness from which she awakes in a very disoriented state.

We have talked and she is very receptive to concerns over her health and understands why she may not be able to participate. That makes it a little difficult for the others in the house, including myself, to create a stress-free environment in which to explore at home. I don't mean that in as selfish a way as it sounds...:?

She could ask the M.D. treating her, assuming there is mutual trust, to help find relevant research that discusses the effects of hallucinogens, especially tryptamines, on patients with similar symptoms. Doctors can be unwilling to give straight recommendations, for liability reasons, but they sometimes have access to difficult to obtain publications.

I don't think that is an option unfortunately.

 

[OneIsEros]

I have epilepsy, it’s never been a problem for me, but my epilepsy is triggered by smoking a ton of pot and suddenly ceasing to use. Flashing lights don’t do a thing to me. I’m lucky that my trigger is so easy to avoid. Epilepsy is very different for different people. I’d say it’s a risk. Seizures can do some pretty bad stuff. Not just physically (like when I dislocated both my shoulders and of course mangled my tongue). They can hurt the brain. I continue to trip only because after a lifetime of tripping starting at age 15, I have never known a psychedelic to trigger an “aura” (the weird feeling of deja vu precipitating a seizure).

Has she ever tripped on anything before? Did she have seizures or auras? Are her seizures triggered by visual cues?

Even if the responses are favorable to these questions, there is still a risk. If her seizures are happening regularly as you say, I wouldn’t risk it personally.

 

[corpus callosum]

Thank you for responding, CC.

I am not sure why, but when I asked, she did not seem to have "full title" other than epilepsy. She said her doctor called her seizures ideopathic, and i don't know what that means. The only med i know of that she takes for it is called "omfey", spelled phonetically. Her meds are not very well-regulated and she isn't the greatest at self-care unfortunately.

I know her seizure are clonic-tonic and ususally result in a complete loss of consciousness from which she awakes in a very disoriented state.

That's a start.

Idiopathic in essence means "not secondary to a known process" which is close to meaning the same as "primary". But unfortunately that is not the end of the story/investigation.

The stereotypical image of "a seizure" with someone "convulsing" on the floor whereby the body is undergoing rhythmical bilateral contracting motions is the "clonic" part of the episode; before this kicks in there is often a short period of fixed posturing (of various appearances) which is the "tonic" part. Most "convulsions" tend to be tonic-clonic ie in this order when motor features are seen. For this discussion we can call this a generalized motor seizure. The question is does her seizure "generalize" from the start, or does it start in one area and then rapidly generalize?

How old is she?

Does she get any warning symptoms before having the seizure?

"Omfey" doesn't ring any bells but your nation is not mine. Could we get a generic name, dosage, and regime clarified?

I must say at this point- someone whose epilepsy is not well-controlled and has some issues with self-care may not be the best candidate for potent psychedelic experiences irrespective of physiological considerations.

 

[coAsTal]

I must say at this point- someone whose epilepsy is not well-controlled and has some issues with self-care may not be the best candidate for potent psychedelic experiences irrespective of physiological considerations.

Gotta agree here-- if she's irresponsible in her own care (and I mean that politely) I wouldn't count on the kind of due-diligence needed to navigate this safely.

OP, if her being the "odd-man-out" is an issue for the group,(I'm guessing it's a roommate situation or girlfriend of a tenent if her presence is expected to be unavoidable) it might be more respectful for all concerned to partake somewhere else or when she's not home. I am sure it's inconvenient, but it might be the best way to avoid doing it under her nose when she can't participate.

 

[null24]

Gotta agree here-- if she's irresponsible in her own care (and I mean that politely) I wouldn't count on the kind of due-diligence needed to navigate this safely.

OP, if her being the "odd-man-out" is an issue for the group,(I'm guessing it's a roommate situation or girlfriend of a tenent if her presence is expected to be unavoidable) it might be more respectful for all concerned to partake somewhere else or when she's not home. I am sure it's inconvenient, but it might be the best way to avoid doing it under her nose when she can't participate.

Yeah, agreed as well. In a way i think she's in the right environment, with people who care about her, and it might do her psyche some good to perhaps stimulate her to take better care of herself but yes, the risk far outweighs any potential benefit.

You're fairly on point with the situation, and i tend to agree that it just wouldn't be fair to her even if she insists that it is. She's not experienced enough to be a "sitter", although with her seizure history that may not actually be true, meaning she could maybe recognize real distress as opposed to drug weirdness, ha.

On another point, i haven't really done much more research into it without more info from her, and have been relying on this thread for info, but if there is as much of a dearth if info on the topic as there seems to be, maybe this thread could be stickied or info from it put in the wiki?

 

[null24]

An update: i was not present but her boyfriend gave her some that i had given to him, which is okay with me. While from her description she doesn't seem to have come anywhere near an immersive experience, according to her it was inspiring and gave her new, or at least reinforced some positive perspectives. She said that felt in no way in danger of having a seizure or any negative effects.

 

[coAsTal]

Glad it worked out OK-- I had suspected there was zero chance it wasn't going to be given to her by her boyfriend, hehe.

You're a good friend for thinking of her safety first though-- a good friend indeed.

 

[Quetzal7]

I got a friend with epilepsy that got a seizure after a triple hit on changa - and it was absolutely terrifying. It was a big dose to be honnest, and at the end of a Aya ceremony, so he was still in the IMAO zone.

 

[null24]

Glad it worked out OK-- I had suspected there was zero chance it wasn't going to be given to her by her boyfriend, hehe.

You're a good friend for thinking of her safety first though-- a good friend indeed.

I think I'm just a lot more cautious than i used to be. I've given it to many folks, but have not always had positive results.

 

[coAsTal]

I'm with you-- this isn't exactly related to physical illness complications, but I remember one very significant incident where my (then) girlfriend and I had a kind-of outer-orbit friend wanting to trip with us. He was OK when he was sober, but the three of us (me, the gf, and a mutual close friend and long-time tripping buddy) all had reservations about him.

We decided to trip together one weekend at my place, planning on just a couple grams of shrooms each to keep it mellow, but that dumb mother****** had brought cocaine without our knowledge and hit it in his car outside. He was acting crazy, walking around in tight circles in the living room stammering "I don't know what's going on" over and over AS HE WAS UNBUCKLING HIS BELT LIKE HE WAS ABOUT TO DROP HIS PANTS. It got worse from there.

I'll leave the rest of that long night out of this thread, but suffice it to say I never, ever tripped with anyone I didn't intimately know and trust after that-- nor in a public place where there wasn't 100% confidence of privacy.

8)