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New Extraction

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AstronomyDomine

Rising Star
SWIM is starting a new extraction.

Using 453.5g Powdered MHRB
photo3mx3.jpg

(~226.25g Bag pictured)


Right now SWIM has the mixture in 2L of water and "a good amount" of lye. 200ml of Naptha was added on top.

photo2pa8.jpg


My only question would be this:

SWIM has some chemist friends and they all say that naptha is aweful and to use ether.
Comments?
 
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AstronomyDomine said:
Dude, lazyman's is another tek, not really an insult to Noman
Click to expand...

Yeah, I know it is. I guess I could have misinterpreted what El Ka Bong wrote it.

"Lye Eaters unite ! Come on, what's "new" about this lazyman's tek..?"

I interpreted this as a direct reference to the tek Swim has been using which is Noman's tek, basically suggesting that Noman's tek is a "new" version of Layzman's tek and preceding it with childish name calling with the "Lye Eaters" remark. I certainly apologize if I misinterpreted this but I believe I've read more than one post by El Ka Bong more or less bashing STB teks.


Anyway, that aside, I'm interested in seeing more pics of your Spice harvesting project. How are the new pulls coming? Swim is very interested in finding out how he is doing. It seems that most of the Spice came out in that 4th pull because the 5th pull is speckled but nothing like that last one. Swim has another pull sitting right now but wont separate it until it has been in there for 4 days. He plans on just going ahead and combining the 5th and 6th pull and freeze preciping it then. After that he is going to give touline a chance to pull the Jungle Spice. We'll see what comes of it.
 
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sorry for the jackassedness of my remark everyone. El Ka's repetitive condescending attitude bugs me. I'll be more civil.


EZ2Shoot4U - couldn't have said it better. Thank you.
 
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AstronomyDomine,

Looks like a nice extraction, bit more success than SWIMS had. I see you're using Noman's tek with a sep funnel, have you had any problems with this as with SWIMS the sep funnel hole got clogged up quite quickly, making it impossible to get down to the naphta layer without disturbing the layers. SWIM had to resort to using a turkey baster.
 
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look I'm not arguing ... just commenting about facts I have gathered from some experience.

I enjoy your passion for this hobby EZ4u .!

I suggested adding just water to the sludge jar, to get it more 'watery', just like you say... the extra lye was not needed as (had you measured) the pH would have changed very little by adding just water.

The reason one would let crystals form slowly is because if you let them grow big, ALL the impurities become immediately evident. You can see the purity is high or contaminated just by looking. You can't tell visually how pure the dmt is unless the evaporation is slow...

The yellow oils from MHRB are GOOD @! they dissolve lots of dmt so don't consider the yellow oil spice bad - it's often more 'friendly' and migh contain the other jungle spice alakloids..! (the yellow smells more than the white spice). In your picture EZ4U' the yellow crystals look like the best formed dmt crystals - they seem less contaminated than the cob-webby white stuff.

Benzene, or 'benzine' is NOT naphtha (aka pet' ether)

Benzene - Wikipedia this stuff will cause cancer etc so don't use it !


Another fact -In acid pH dmt is perfectly soluble, and safe. Acid pH (1.8 - 4) will not break appart dmt. Alkaline pH will breakdown dmt - dmt is uncharged above pH 8.7, so it clumps up and becomes part of the inslouble sludge

Here's why acid pH DOES NOT destroy dmt: dmt in water and acid it takes on the H+ of the acid and becomes charged (dmt-NH3+). Now a charged molecule posseses a "Hydration sphere" - this is a ballon of water molecules that surrounds and 'protects' the charged dmt molecule. Every ion or polar molecule in water has a "hydration sphere", which is part of the definition of how things are "soluble" look here:


This is true for every thing that dissolves in water even dmt-NH3+. Hydration spheres can be huge if the molecule has a high charge-density (say 2+ or even 3+. Dmt in water at pH 2.0 has a hydration sphere keeping it proteced and solubilized in water.. Soluble is good for dmt but 'insoluble' is bad for dmt - dmt is insoluble in water above pH 8.7.

So you can store acid, flitered MHRB extract in the fridge for months, and not lose any yield (speaking from experience..). If you do this with pH 13.95 the dmt will not be soluble since it will not have a 'hydration sphere' .. and so it will directly be exposed to the ravages of tepmperature, oxygen and the 'free electrons' of hydroxl ions from lye :)OH-). Someone may have done this already - store a basified MHRB extract in at pH 13.99 and after a few weeks see what comes out ...

Now I just want to hear the outcome of vapourizing these yeilds - yellow vs white rocket fuel - how do the launches compare !?
 
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El Ka Bong said:
look I'm not arguing ... just commenting about facts I have gathered from some experience.

I enjoy your passion for this hobby EZ4u .!

I suggested adding just water to the sludge jar, to get it more 'watery', just like you say... the extra lye was not needed as (had you measured) the pH would have changed very little by adding just water.

The reason one would let crystals form slowly is because if you let them grow big, ALL the impurities become immediately evident. You can see the purity is high or contaminated just by looking. You can't tell visually how pure the dmt is unless the evaporation is slow...

The yellow oils from MHRB are GOOD @! they dissolve lots of dmt so don't consider the yellow oil spice bad - it's often more 'friendly' and migh contain the other jungle spice alakloids..! (the yellow smells more than the white spice). In your picture EZ4U' the yellow crystals look like the best formed dmt crystals - they seem less contaminated than the cob-webby white stuff.

Benzene, or 'benzine' is NOT naphtha (aka pet' ether)

Benzene - Wikipedia this stuff will cause cancer etc so don't use it !


Another fact -In acid pH dmt is perfectly soluble, and safe. Acid pH (1.8 - 4) will not break appart dmt. Alkaline pH will breakdown dmt - dmt is uncharged above pH 8.7, so it clumps up and becomes part of the inslouble sludge

Here's why acid pH DOES NOT destroy dmt: dmt in water and acid it takes on the H+ of the acid and becomes charged (dmt-NH3+). Now a charged molecule posseses a "Hydration sphere" - this is a ballon of water molecules that surrounds and 'protects' the charged dmt molecule. Every ion or polar molecule in water has a "hydration sphere", which is part of the definition of how things are "soluble" look here:


This is true for every thing that dissolves in water even dmt-NH3+. Hydration spheres can be huge if the molecule has a high charge-density (say 2+ or even 3+. Dmt in water at pH 2.0 has a hydration sphere keeping it proteced and solubilized in water.. Soluble is good for dmt but 'insoluble' is bad for dmt - dmt is insoluble in water above pH 8.7.

So you can store acid, flitered MHRB extract in the fridge for months, and not lose any yield (speaking from experience..). If you do this with pH 13.95 the dmt will not be soluble since it will not have a 'hydration sphere' .. and so it will directly be exposed to the ravages of tepmperature, oxygen and the 'free electrons' of hydroxl ions from lye :)OH-). Someone may have done this already - store a basified MHRB extract in at pH 13.99 and after a few weeks see what comes out ...

Now I just want to hear the outcome of vapourizing these yeilds - yellow vs white rocket fuel - how do the launches compare !?
Click to expand...

Iss'all good my friend. I will say that it is obvious that there are multiple ways to go about extracting and purifying the spice. I don't think any one is necessarily the best way. For the most part, I think there are benefits and consequences regardless of what method one might choose. In the end what matters most is the end results of the Spice and its cleanliness of harmful materials.

Quality and purity is always going to be a subject for debate and a matter of preference. I certainly agree that one can sacrifice some purity in order to have a better quality. But again, some people might enjoy the extra alkaloids while others would prefer a near perfect clear white purity. In the end, as long as they both get the "bad" impurities out, that is what matters most.

My personal thought on it would be to go for the smallest immediately cleanest crystals then do an ammonia wash and follow that up with a slow recrystallization. By doing an ammonia wash on smaller crystals it should wash away more impurities because less will be trapped inside the crystals as they would be more likely to be closer to the surface. By recrystallizing, it is going separate everything to a degree so that you can just get rid of the slag on the bottom. However, although it might be a little wasteful, doing both an ammonia wash on the small fast formed crystals and following it up with a slow recrystallization to form the larger pretty crystals would be able to produce cleaner crystals than either method individually. This might be overkill, and you probably will lose a little Spice, but it should be very clean and very pure.

Now the fact is, no matter what method you use, you will never get "all" of the "bad" stuff out. The only way this would ever even be possible is if we had a device that could manage and manipulate every single atom and molecule individually. So, at this point one must accept that the best we can do is minimize the risks or bad elements down to an acceptable level. Again, this is going to be a matter of opinion. In my opinion, if the end product is less harmful than going outside in the city and starting your car, then I figure it is of acceptable cleanliness. For that matter, I'm a smoker (unfortunately) and I'll say if it isn't as harmful as a cigarette then what the hell, why not. Just to give you an idea, I recall reading an article where they used all this fancy equipment to measure pollutants and in the article it said that a car produces more pollutants and carcinogens in the first minute of being started than what burning 5 to 10 cartons cigarettes does. This kind of makes the second hand smoke arguments stupid.

Anyway, to conclude this, the end result there that you saw in the picture... amazing... I will post the information about it in Losing virginity... Time to pop the DMT cherry... First extraction shortly.

Also, I think there was a bit of misunderstanding. I said that benzine is a type of petroleum ether, just like naptha is a type of petroleum ether. Benzene is very very bad. Bestine is benzine. Benzine is a mixture of heptane, hexane, pentane, and a few other things. Additionally, as I understand it, Bestine is benzine.

Petroleum benzine - Wikipedia
 
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I will definitely agree with one thing here that most people will rant and argue about...

The yellow "tannin infested" spice IS definitely fucking GOOD! People, usually noobs or purists, will go off about this. Whatever. It is far more friendly, smooth to toke, and in my opinion, more powerful and organically brilliant. Furthermore, and people will screech about this too, if one extracts with Xylene or Toluene and then evaporates, the yellowish end product is SUPREME.
 
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My friend said me that yellow seems more "rich" in visuals while quite pure is good for a "spiritual blast". But it's hard to be consistent with the spice. However, what's sure is that yellow is a bit hard on the throat the next morning while transparent crystals are leaving almost no trace of irritation (for a non-smoker). All that said a bit of yellow is perfectly manageable and can be indeed fucking good ;)
It has to be considered that a not negligeable amount of precious stuff can be lost with recrystallisation/washes.
 
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From what I read, the biggest mistake was letting lye get AT ALL into the final product. You should be more careful about those 'small droplets' in the future..... (there are several ways to deal with this...none of which are very time-consuming or difficult)

there are many ways to get to the goal, but seriously, BE SAFE! :)

Also, we're all in this together...why fight? Build off each other, don't knock each other down. :d

LOVE
 
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