New member, long time lurker, hypothesis regarding a modified fasa tek

[whamo]

Hi all,
I've been a lurker for about a year now (I usefully never find myself on the nexus on the weekends to become a member) and I've absorbed a fair amount of information through my time browsing the nexus.

My question/ hypothesis,

Could a person salt out freebase DMT from a solvent (some people use toluene, xylene shouldn't be different) via fumaric acid?

I know toluene will not dissolve fumaric acid, but say a person were to add fumaric acid to a toluene solution containing spice, and stirred vigorously with a magnetic stirrer. SWIM hypothesizes that this would allow fumaric acid to pass through the toluene, coming in contact with suspended freebase DMT, forming DMT fumarate.

After this solution has mixed for a acceptable amount of time, let the precipitate settle and then use vacuum filtration to remove precipitate.

Now you may be thinking, the fumarate product contains too much fumaric acid, what would be the point?

But swim thinks if the tek for re-basification is followed using sodium carbonate, than excess fumaric acid forms the soluble sodium fumarate, and the freebase dmt precipitates out as expected.

Thoughts on this tek? The idea is to remove the use of acetone, so a person doesn't have to fuss with constantly drying, then separating the toluene/acetone to re-use solvent.

Yield may be below average, but the DMT left in the toluene isn't going anywhere and can be re used for subsequent pulls. If all of the product is desired, maybe a fasa wash in the last pull would suffice.

The tek idea may be total bunk, but I figured id ask!
-Wham

 

[downwardsfromzero]

You'd be better off looking at ways of not using toluene than ways of not using acetone, wouldn't you?

How about you test your method out and report back?

 

[Spaced Out 2]

Welcome to the community.

By the way no need to swim around here, we already know you aren't you



Peace

 

[whamo]

You'd be better off looking at ways of not using toluene than ways of not using acetone, wouldn't you?

How about you test your method out and report back?

I have no problem working with toluene, it has provided much better pulls than with other non-polars that can be easily obtained. But minimizing the number of solutions that the DMT must travel through will result in less DMT loss due to any small amount being left in the solution, in my head at least. Also worrying about drying acetone, and washing acetone out of toluene, are steps that I wouldn't mind cutting out if possible

I will hop in the lab and test it out this week hopefully
Ill report back and send some pictures, as there is already an extraction in process to which this idea can be applied

 

[downwardsfromzero]

Certainly an interesting idea, but maybe rather a waste of fumaric acid? Why not just back extract into fumaric acid solution? That would surely be more effective.

 

[whamo]

I'm not sure if there would be a large waste of fumaric acid, at least in relation to a fasa wash. There would also be no waste of acetone and the solvent can be immediately re-used for the next pull without having to wash out the acetone. Whereas in a fasa wash there would be a waste of acetone and excess fumaric acid (unless you re-dry the acetone washed out of the solvent, which to me is a step I wouldn't mind cutting out)

A back-extraction would provide just about the same results imo, but then you would be dealing with a new aqueous layer instead of a precipitate. Definitely nothing revolutionary,but potentially a small time and acetone saving option (if it even works). Ill try to do a side by side comparison of this vs. a regular fasa wash tomorrow, and post the results.

 

[endlessness]

Yes it works and is so commonly done that often when we refer to FASA, this is what we mean, the use of FASA to salt alkaloids out of different solvents, whether its acetone or toluene or xylene or limonene etc. Check out BLAB tek for example

 

[whamo]

Yes it works and is so commonly done that often when we refer to FASA, this is what we mean, the use of FASA to salt alkaloids out of different solvents, whether its acetone or toluene or xylene or limonene etc. Check out BLAB tek for example

Ah I see. I'm not sure which section of the BLAB tek this would immediately relate to though, as I am trying to see if fumaric acid can be added directly to the non-polar solvent, (not adding a fumaric acid saturated solvent, (fasw, fasa, fasipa, ect.)) and result in the precipitation of DMT fumerate.

I suppose I don't see the direct need to saturate a intermediate solvent with fumaric acid if you will re-basify the end product with sodium carbonate anyways, effectively removing any excess fumaric acid from the precipitate.

 

[endlessness]

Im sorry i had misunderstood you. Yeah i thought adding FASA to the non polar

As for adding the fumaric acid directly, you could try and report back