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New To Rue - Some Questions

Migrated topic.


13.7 Billion Year Old Noob
Concise background:

-Been doing extractions for almost a decade
-This includes a whole lot of spice, a couple of mesc from torch and caapi vine when that was available to me
-So, not a chemist, but a fairly experienced chef IMHO with consistent results.
-With caapi vine having become prohibitively expensive and difficult to find (was always gifted to me before), I've been without harmalas for too long. I've been over straight spice for years and am a changa monster.

A friend approached me with 300g of rue, asking if I would do an extraction in return for keeping a third of the alks for myself. I've never bothered with reading up on rue as it just wasn't part of my reality until now. I knew people were saying that it didn't come close to the effects of my beloved caapi because of ratios of harmalas and other less quantifiable effects, but it had to be better than straight enhanced leaf, right?

So I checked the Nexus and the processes described for rue extraction just didn't fit into my life as it stands at this juncture. Days of work, Manske, maniacal filtering, etc. I didn't see the point... If a strong alkaline solution causes the harmalas to crash out just like with caapi, I could surely wash out the lye and a great deal of impurities (I have no issues with sodium hydroxide and use it exclusively) to the point where the water had no taste, odour, soapy texture or sting on the tongue (not very scientific I know, but I'm not going to try and hunt down litmus papers in an African city) and then wash it again for good measure. So most of the work consisted of washing and cleaning. Boiled the night before with a healthy amount of lemon juice. A single, slow boil which caused reduction and I'd just top up with more lemon juice water. About 3 hours of that.

Filtered it through multiple layers of cloth and squeezed every last drop out of the powdered seed paste. Took a small amount of the liquid and added concentrated lye water. It went latte-coloured as expected and immediately crashed out as with caapi. Cleaned this until I was happy and knew that this was as pure a freebase mix as my resources and knowledge allows for. Then I pulled the rest in one big batch. The yield, my god, almost 15g!

My share in pic below. Phone camera and flash making it look more pink than it is. Still, no dirty Sanchez here.


Personally, very happy with this.

Unfortunately, I am not in a position to bioassay at the moment as I'm tapering off Zoloft that I needed to go on to get me through a very tough few months. It will be two months before I'd touch a monoamine oxidase inhibitor. Until then, I have some questions and assumptions...

1. Is harmaline a "less pleasant" RIMA? Any unpleasant side effects? Or is a harmine/THH dominant mix just qualitatively better? This question relates to changa and pharma/aya.

2. I'm a milligram man for many reasons, including controlling and fine tuning the mix that works best for me. People make a tea or even smoke the seeds. Surely there can't be anything bad in my product when I've isolated the actives only? It's a lot cleaner than a raw tea or eating the seeds.

3. As soon as all traces of SSRI are flushed from my system, I'm really keen on doing a proper pharma session with a sitter as I need release and healing in a big way. I am prepared for the fact that this may be a challenging experience. It would be pointless if I didn't puke and cry and battle my demons. Been there and it scares me to go back, but it's almost time. Do rue extracts add any discomfort or darkness to the journey compared to caapi or does it serve the same general purpose?

It seems to be the most widely used source of harmalas for this purpose, so it can't be bad?

The reason for my questions are because of the sheer amount of obsolete and dogmatic rubbish online, a lot posted years ago by obviously very young people (the entheo sites need a serious clean-up). Some say that they hate rue - that it's caapi or nothing. Others swear by rue.

It's years later, a lot has changed and we know more. I'd like to hear from people with serious experience as far as the full-spectrum rue experience goes.

Thank you.
That is exactly the type of thread I was looking for, but for some reason was unable to find.

Thanks for this!
Hi dtrypt.

I've been taking oral full spectrum harmala hcl daily for about a month now. I'm mostly using it to deal with post acute withdrawal syndrome (paws) and Lyme symptoms. At 25 to 75 mg I have very little or no physical discomfort. Maybe the occasional gas that soon passes. I've gone as high as 500mg in a single dose and in that range I do experience mild bowel discomfort and a couple trips to the restroom. Some of that may be associated with the paws, I've heard others say they have no discomfort at such dosages. I'm never nauseous from harmala. I generally filter over and over then go straight to manske. I base a portion of the yield for changa and as long as I wash the freebase well I have no issues combining oral hcl and smoalked freebase harmalas. I agree completely with melotikaci about the vaped harmala and dmt combo and would add that when combined with oral hcl my changa trips are up to 3 hours and very gentle. I can't compare rue extracts to caapi as I have not tried caapi yet. Hope this helps.
Thanks EntreNous

If it treats the symptoms of PAWS for you, I can only assume that the Harmaline is hard at work here and that it indeed has healing properties and therefore an ally.
Corrupt, I don't know, maybe some of the limited experience I have with rue may be worth checking out. I've never worked with an extract or other RIMA sources so I can't answer as to relative effects between it and caapi, I've only smoalked raw seeds with fb n,n DMT and performed two experiments using it to treat my depression-and funny enough, PAWS- symptoms.

The way I like to describe the rue/spice trip is like having a record that I've always played at 45rpm, and one day listening to it at 33. Nothing is added quantitatively, it is all just slowed down and stretched out. The record analogy fails in a few ways, it's not like rue distorts the experience. In fact it could be that it's easier to recall due to there being less 'sturm und drang'. I found it quite pleasant.

My experiences with mid term duration repeated dosing as an anti depressant was far les effective, but it's due to a reason that may not effect you. I'm very sensitive to an overload (not the correct term,I'm sure) of serotonin, it seems. I've never received a diagnosis, I just know I can't tolerate SSRIs because they seem to incite rages in me. It's terrifying as I'm a pretty peaceful guy when I absolutely feel that I must physically release an overwhelming, inexplicable rage within. It's only happened on a few different SSRIs and both times I used rue on a every-other-day routine for a week. I posted here about it, I could dig it up if your interested.

That said, those are my personal experiences, a couple cents, salt to taste and your mileage may vary.
dtrypt said:
1. Is harmaline a "less pleasant" RIMA? Any unpleasant side effects? Or is a harmine/THH dominant mix just qualitatively better? This question relates to changa and pharma/aya...
For pharma: the harmaline can range from very pleasant to disaster, according to the dose. You can go fairly & safely unpunished by upping harmine, not so for harmaline, that one had a deadline (deadzone?) one better respects. Personally that line lies on 100mg harmaline for me, somewhat, but as null24 says your mileage may vary.
So maybe that is the reason you find scattered testimonies on the internet. There's not one truth as people differ and their doses taken.

Last time I was out for a gentle meditative session: 125 rueHCL (estimated 1/1 harmine/harmaline) + 40 deems. Should have been a walk in the park, yet T+1 (estimated) it hit me so fast I almost thought I vaped a 20 GVG one-hitter but then during 1 hour. One of those sensitive days prolly. Nothing uber extraordinary on intensity though, but the modest does of harmaline gave it all such a wonderful character and blissful come down. Harmine + THH is not that "warm" to me, it's more clear almost clinical crisp. But I love it all, there's no preference for me really. Yet the fluffy warm cloak that harmaline can deliver is unmatched in its own right, as far as I know things. But again, too much harmaline and the warmth transforms into a bitchy body load no fun anymore. No one-label for harmaline imho.
These replies have really helped, thanks.

If there's one thing I've taken from this post, it is to not bother with any other source than the Nexus. I forgot about the body of work behind this interface. Rather hunt down specific things on here than on Google.

SSRI's suck. They destroy me. But when I get severely depressed, my body and mind just wont start up in the morning or care if everything was on fire. But SSRI's can take someone from that state to a chemically induced suicidal or angry zombie, functional enough to execute a 7 month contract. The other option being destitution. Every two or three years I have to lean on them for a period, with great reluctance. This is my first time on Zoloft and it won't let me go. I'm on quarter dose which means the withdrawal and electric zaps are manageable but still present. I went without for two days and it ended up not nice at all. Never want to experience that kind of anhedonia again.
Drypt, I'm curious what your experience with micro dosing is?

I can really empathize with the destructive nature of severe depression. Putting one foot in front of the other can become a monumental task. With micro dosing psilocybin, I discovered a very effective mood stabilizer that doesn't require constant dosing.

I can do a regimen for a week or two (0.2 to 0.5 g dried cubes every other day in the morning) and feel good for a good while, it works on more of an addressing symptoms as they occur level rather than constant medication.

It's been a real life saver for me since I cannot tolerate SSRIs at all and seem to have some strange relationship with serotonin. Of course sourcing can be a barrier, hopefully though maybe one day soon that won't be the case. Hell, maybe one day insurance will cover tripping.
Hey null24... I used to have two monotubs running at all times as a hobby. A hobby that left me with more mushrooms than I knew what to do with. Most of it given away to friends and friendly strangers. I never had contams or tub failures until I moved into a fairly old apartment (redone, but still). We have an insane mould problem in spite of disinfecting the hell out of this place.

Here my spawn jars have a 100% failure rate. After three attempts, I gave up. It's a lot of effort and waiting, only to be met with failure. Now I have no idea how it was grown or the quality/potency. So cubensis isn't accessible to me.

I also had quite a collection of tryptamines and phenethylamines, but these are also long gone. I am left with spice and rue harmalas. I do have access to cactus powder, but not sure if it's of any help?

Mod said:
Edited by Moderator. No discussion of buying/selling/sourcing.
Friendly advice: you might want to edit the above sourcing talk. The mods don't like that at all. I will say that's sure enough expensive, but to be honest, it's half what I see them for and is also the same thing I got them for the first time I did them, in 1985. That's cost stability!

But yeah, I get ya. That's the problem. With a lack of resource, it's hard to use one. I usually rely on nature, living in a place with lots of fall species.

Mold is a big issue here too, and the cultivators I do know often have difficulty. It's the main reason hi haven't tried growing myself
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