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NOT happy Erowid!

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nen888

member for the trees
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..i emailed the admin at Erowid recently expressing concern at how out of date their acacia/dmt info was (really focused on one poor old and not properly tested in the archive species) ..i said i didn't have much time for a submission but would like to help..

i am now pondering quoting the whole email exchange..

but for now, all i can say is i am not happy erowid!
you are ill informed, approaching rude, and frankly in danger of being an ageing dinosaur relic of a bygone era..
get it together!

can't be bothered going there again..
 
nen888 said:
i am now pondering quoting the whole email exchange..
Click to expand...
not much for us to discuss if you don't...
but yea, i stopped checking erowid years ago. it seems to be less prevalent compared to forums such as this one
 
Erowid has become outdated a few years ago in my opinion. The site is incredibly difficult to navigate through, it's unorganized and a lot of the information is so spread out across a vast range of articles you need to do a lot of reading for minimal gain. On top of that, most of their drug information is out of date.

Places like Wikipedia and the DMT Nexus have taken over the role of these dinosaurs. For the more novel stuff there's bluelight or drugs-forum. Erowid isn't community focused like the previously mentioned sites and without a community behind the site to constantly collect and discuss research results or doing their own experiments they are a slow acting organisation that falls behind the rest.

I'd be interested in the mail exchange between you and them.
 
Well, I always end up at Erowid, when I need some info from the Rhodium snapshot.

But there is a mirror on Tor, it covers Rhodium and the Hive snapshots.
 
Entro and Noman have unsuccessfully tried to get Erowid to change some DMT related things but eventually, "on behalf of the community at The DMT Nexus" desired warnings, explanations and overview was added.


I suggest making a "Critical evaluation of Erowid's info on Acacia" thread and hopefully we'll be able to formulate a piece of text that will convince Erowid editors that change is needed.

I am however very sad to hear that they were rude towards. Can you share who your contact was ? Surely not Earth or Fire ?
 
..it was Sage..
i may quote the email..i'll give another few days to reply..

but, i don't want anything to do with Erowid after this..
their time is over as far as i'm concerned..

sites like the Lycaeum, SAB, Mycoptopia, Ayahuasca Forums, still keep up with the times..

basically, Sage has demonstrated ignorance and arrogance to me..and hasn't responded to my last, quite reasonable and attempting to be helpful email..

NOT interested in contributing..

i DO NOT support Erowid..will not go there..!
 
..and while i'm at it (thanks so much for your reply Erowid)

that DMT UNDERGROUND: compendium book sounds like a tired load of stuff adulterated from elsewhere..
do you have anything NEW to say Erowid?

i don't think so..
 
i totally agree with this. maybe when i was 16 it was cool and helped me learn alot of the basics but they never progressed with the time and you bringing ignorance into the view is even more discouraging thanks for bringing this up nen.
 
erowid sucks actually for the most part today in terms of being up to date with the data out there.

There is a lot of weird sort of stuff there..for instance in the bufotenine vault they have "toad venom" as a common brand name for bufotenine..what? How much bufotenine is even in toad venom? I dont know of people seeking out toads for bufotenine trips. I know this might sound like splitting hairs but I have heard more than just nen complaining about how when they try to contact erowid about updating some things they just brush them off.

Erowid is not what it once was. It is riddled with weird informaton.

I hate to say this about Erowid becasue I loved Erowid and still do..but man it does not seem to be run super well. Things getting out of date or unorganized is understandable concidering the ammount of information they gather but the way they disreguard credible people is just stupid.

I think you should post the email here nen becasue you are not the first one here to try to help them get some informaton in order and have just been brushed off.
 
IMO, Erowid are complacent and in some ways anachronistic.Yes, they were there since the early days of the internet age but this isnt sufficient to maintain their crdibility/position in an age where info and knowledge is moving apace.

It seems that they are rather arrogant and have an unwarranted and inflated view of themselves if theyre unable to at least consider the prospect that they are no longer the final word on some issues.

A bit sad really.
 
..ok, some excerpts..

Erowid:
Assuming you've produced more than a single document in your lifetime, what would you say to someone who wrote to you and told you that your information was wrong but wouldn't say what he was talking about? I curate a huge library. "There is something in your library about acacias that is wrong."

Without knowing a URL or a document that you're talking about, I can't really fix anything.

I can't just delete everything by mulga or trout because someone writes in saying "what mulga and trout say is wrong". In most cases, it is still useful to have old data around, as long as it's marked as out of date.

But, again, unless I know something specific that you're talking about, it's difficult to add a To Do item.

Are you saying that everything trout and mulga have ever written is wrong?
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Me reply:
No i'm not suggesting delete anything. I am friends with both Mulga and Trout. What I am saying is that until some new stuff is submitted, it is good to point out things like the research only goes to around 2004.
e.g. dmt is multiply demonstrated to not be the main alkaloid in many cases of A. obtusifolia..
around 20-30 new species confirmed by several source GCMS.
Yes erowid is i big archive. The acacia thing is growing rather fast in the world of the youth!
At least post the list in S. Voogelbreinder Garden Of Eden 2009 (even though it's getting out of date, it's way further than where the documents are left sitting on erowid)
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..no more replies or contact..

Earth..i sense you are full of the arrogance of your reputation..
it is time you answered..or got out..!
 
corpus callosum said:
It seems that they are rather arrogant and have an unwarranted and inflated view of themselves if theyre unable to at least consider the prospect that they are no longer the final word on some issues.

A bit sad really.
Click to expand...

Hits the nail square on the head.

These days they are outdated. And they are very testy about admitting it. The issue with QT's DMT extraction tek that Shaolin mentioned was a perfect case in point. Noman and Zhah had tried to talk to them about it, and they didn't want to listen. I talked to them about it, and they didn't want to listen. I know others had brought it up as well. They didn't take any action until we sent that extremely long, extremely detailed email on behalf of the Nexus, pointing out every single thing that was wrong with the tek. Ridiculous.

Their site has grown too large to operate the way that it does. Their heart just isn't in it anymore. You'll notice that they have copy-pasted Usenet discussions peppered throughout their Vaults... but do they ever include discussions from modern Internet discussion boards? Nope. God forbid they should include information that's less than a decade old.

Their model needs to change. I don't know if they're overwhelmed by the quantity of corrections and new information they receive... but even if they are, they need to figure out a way to triage that information so that it is reflected in their Vaults. Or better yet, solicit help in curating new content from around the web. We're not living in the '90s anymore.

\end of complaining


That said, there are still some elements of Erowid that I really appreciate. They have some great books hosted on their site (Trout's Notes A5, The Ethnopharmacologic Search for Psychoactive Drugs, etc.). And I appreciate the organization of their Experience Vaults, especially the ability to perform advanced searches for all sorts of criteria.

It's unfortunate that lending Erowid a helping hand feels more like pulling teeth than like a welcome contribution. But until that changes, I don't think I'll be making any more efforts to contribute or correct information on their site.
 
It is sad. I guess they don't have the constant internal self-examinination going on like does at the Nexus to keep it's policies and visions relevant.
Makes me appreciate the Nexus, and some of those other forums mentioned, all the more.
 
I've had more than a few conversations with 'Earth' and your views are not alone, nen. He came to me a few years ago, I offered some time and resources to update the research, then he gets arrogant and rude with me out of the blue. Hrmm...

If you care for any details, nen, or wish to pursue another avenue of updating the research -- let me know. I'm getting the wheels spinning again on my own terms.
 
I personally don't understand all the hatred towards erowid. Yes, a LOT of their information is outdated, and from what I hear the folks running it can't be bothered to update it, but the excerpt from your exchange with them doesn't seem as hostile and arrogant as you made them out to be. He did make some good points actually. So slandering and throwing cheap shots at them and saying things like, "I do not support erowid" and "will not go there" just because of this exchange, to me, sounds even more arrogant than you're making THEM out to be.

And Let's not forget people; they're on our side! They're fighting the good fight! I can't even imagine how many lives they have saved and people they have helped. I agree that they should update their information, but what's there is still valuable. It even has some information and features that other sites do not. For all we know they're just too busy to be updating it all the time, and its already been pointed out that there are other great websites for more up to date information if we need it.

Come on guys. This circle-jerk of hatred seems a tad childish to me.
 
Xemnas said:
Come on guys. This circle-jerk of hatred seems a tad childish to me.
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Xemnas, respectfully, it goes beyond this. You see, my time is limited. We have people here on this forum, like Entro, corpus and nen, who are hyper-intelligent beings with a TREMENDOUS wealth of knowledge (and research data) to contribute to the collective wisdom and their time is also limited. Admittedly, I haven't been around much lately but I would give my blood, sweat and tears to protect this place (and the members within) from harm b/c the administrator of this forum is the type of person he is -- endlessly and selflessly giving his talents to improve this place we all enjoy.
 
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