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Nutrition

Migrated topic.
Agree completely on the fruit point, fractal.

I've heard a lot about the paleo-diet lately, and the characterizations of the way people respond to other diets doesn't match my experience at all. I eat a lot of raw fruit throughout my day and don't experience rushes followed by crashes at all.

I'm very sympathetic to the Ayurvedic view that different bodies have different food needs. And their model describes a fairly homogenous population!
 
I don't think diet most of the time can realy be the issue itself, when people are having health problems.
A bad diet is part of a bad lifestyle. Change the lifestyle and the diet will automatically change as a result.

There are plenty of examples: it's known for instance that people who have sleeping problems are more prone to piling their stomach with junk-food. The brain of someone who has too little or irregular sleep is in a state of permanent exhaustion so it permanently longs for loads of readily available sugars and permanently lacks the power to inhibit it's own short-term cravings.

If people go boozing friday and saturday night till dawn, than the next morning/afternoon they'll also be in this situation of longing for something that contains sugar, fills the stomach, is easy to digest, etc. and again, lack the patience and willingness to cook a decent meal and lack the willpower to inhibit or adjust their own behaviour.

When you're in a healthy state of mind, you don't long for unhealthy stuff that's only designed to make you buy more of it.
 
Shaolin said:
Lkosalfar: Just and avid reader and NOT a certified medical assistant. I just read a lot. Read those blogs directly since my summaries might not give them justice.
Click to expand...
I actually meant Chinese Martial Arts, in reference to your namesake! I train and study and eat(!?) CMA...
L
 
burnt: The point is NOT to replicate the paleolithic diet. It's just a starting point.

"Yes basically certain organs like your brain NEED glucose because fat doesn't cross blood brain barrier."


The present study shows that the human brain adapts to the changes in energy supply as early as 3 days following initiation of starvation, at which time ketone bodies account for approximately one-fourth of the cerebral energy requirements.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

Brain metabolism during short-term starvation in humans - PubMed

During prolonged starvation, brain energy requirements are covered in part by the metabolism of ketone bodies. It is unknown whether short-term starvation of a few days' duration may lead to reduced brain glucose metabolism due to the change toward ketone body consumption. In the present study...
www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov

I would speculate this numbers increases with time but again this is NOT the point since, adding certain amount of starch you fill glucose needs directly.

And now let's play :D Could you please provide studies that prove the following:

- There is a lot of evidence to indicate too much saturated fat causes all kinds of problems such as cardiovascular diseases.
- Although this is disputed, there are other associations like cancer.
- At the very least animal meat contains cholesterol and too much cholesterol is associated with cardiovascular disease.

You might want to read how these hypothesis were original done. Feynman would be MAD.

high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com

Cholesterol presentation: Between countries

OK, this is the graph of heart deaths plotted against fat intake, produced by Ancel Keys in 1953. It's a beautiful curve, utterly convincing...
high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com high-fat-nutrition.blogspot.com

www.cholesterol-and-health.com

35 Healthy Recipes For A Low Cholesterol Diet

A low cholesterol diet is definitely a must nowadays. After all, your cholesterol and health go hand in hand. Eating too much high cholesterol food can give way
www.cholesterol-and-health.com www.cholesterol-and-health.com



And hot dog isn't steak.

Quick notes:
- saturated being dangerous is at best debatable in nutrition circles today
- we can't discuss cholesterol as "cholesterol" (being calculated and all and the so called "bad" "good" cholesterol). Breakdown to HDL, LDL, tryglicerides, etc might mean something but you still have to believe the "lipid hypothesis" to find them dangerous. Anyway most "Paleo" followers have great markers. I can provide numbers (public forum) if desired.

Studies

Meta-analysis of prospective cohort studies evaluating the association of saturated fat with cardiovascular disease
http://www.ajcn.org/content/early/2010/01/13/ajcn.2009.27725.abstract - I know it's meta and therefore hard as fuck to analyze.

Links
wholehealthsource.blogspot.com

The Diet-Heart Hypothesis: Stuck at the Starting Gate?

The diet-heart hypothesis is the idea that (1) dietary saturated fat, and in some versions, dietary cholesterol, raise blood cholesterol in ...
wholehealthsource.blogspot.com wholehealthsource.blogspot.com

The Dirty Little Secret of the Diet-Heart Hypothesis

The diet-heart hypothesis is the idea that saturated fat, and in some versions cholesterol, raises blood cholesterol and contributes to the ...
wholehealthsource.blogspot.com wholehealthsource.blogspot.com


^^ Both sides of the medal, to be fair.

"All food choices are a trade off so you can't just say "these compounds are unhealthy so eating foods with them is a bad idea", which is basically the argument all these people are making. "

Everything is a trade off but some choices matter more or less. If a product contains for instance trans fat this iS EXACTLY my logic "these compounds are unhealthy so eating foods with them is a bad idea".

And honestly why are you searching perfection ? Like you mentioned there are trade offs ergo you don't have superfoods that could provide you with daily energy and have ZERO minimal effects when eaten in that kind of amounts. I

"You are made of the stuff"


polytrip: Sleep is indeed vital. Dark room, 8 (up to 9 and a halt according to some) hours.

Ljosalfar: Sorry for that :D I must admit the only Chinese Martial Art I did was listening to Wu Tang. And watching Kung Fu series.



fractal enchantment: It's the fructose that is questionable. Isolated (HFCS) fructose is heavily researched for it's (possible) toxicity. The question is, how does the fruit fructose differ the the isolated one.

Most if not all food today is fried in vegetable oils and not saturated fat (lard, tallow, coconut, etc).
 
All the statements I made are well known so I don't want to just to post a bunch of articles because the discussion is gigantic. There are hundreds of papers suggesting links between certain kinds of fat and cholesterol with cardiovascular disease. There are also lots of paper disputing this. The point is no one knows for sure. Its all still being debated. That's why I don't take any diet advise to seriously except common sense stuff.

Also don't get me wrong I love fat. I only eat whole dairy products because I love the taste of milk fat :) I'm just saying balance is good.
 
This is the future of meat eating...will be hard to feed a growing population with bison, chicken and fish only=).
[youtube]

Been looking where to buy grasshoppers, crickets and such in bulk but I haven't found anyone that sells internationally yet. Please tell me if you can find it!!!
I was gonna build a more or less selfsustaining mealworm breeding setup but
then I remembered that I was single...I'm a freak enough for the moment...

I guess one could argue that all life is "equal" (whatever that means) but if someone put
a cow and bag of grasshopper and said "choose your dinner", I would be hell of a lot
more comfortable with putting some hoppers in the freezer for 15min then to
slaughter a cow.
 
Thanks for sharing this. We have a major cultural taboo against insect eating here in the West which is a shame. The difference relatively between say crustaceans ('insects of the sea') and insects isn't much, they are both arthropods. In an increasingly overpopulated world, insect eating could be a major ally. Very energy and resource efficient to produce, can be grown alongside crops, require much less water than traditional livestock production, they can be highly nutritious, and insects grow rapidly and reproduce rapidly. I've eaten fried mealworms and crickets cooked in a wok with soy sauce before, and these were good, like meaty crisps. I've also eaten mot pupae out in Thailand, these weren't too my taste, and I've actually eaten insects live in Colombia, these huge grubs that are used medicinally out there (you essentially bite the head off and suck out the innards...it was like cold mushy prawn).
 
Food is important, but shouldn't become an obsession if you ask me. I think obsessions can be as unhealthy as eating burgers. Don't have any evidence to back that up, but i think eating just what you enjoy most is probably a factor in the basic level of wellbeing you experience.

And freshly baked bread happens to be on of those things i realy enjoy, as some other thinks made of dough, like bagels and croisants.
I also enjoy fruitjuices and i actually think fresh orange or other juices are a, not exagerating here, heavenly experience when you're thirsty.

I think i wouldn't drop those if it would give me ten more years. You'd realy have to convince me that i would be given ten more hellish years with alzheimers if you would want me to change my mind on those things.
 
What worries me the most ist that nowadays you can't realy trust the food you eat.
There's been a huge scandal (again) here in Germany, with dioxine levels in eggs, chickens and porc reaching levels 10x as much as officially allowed.
What happened is that animal food producing companies bought fats that where infected with toxic waste (dioxine), and mixed it in the food. Then the farmers bought this shit and fed their animals with it!!
I think this kinda stuff is happening all the time. It just pops out in the media once in a while.
Fruit and vegetables are getting sprayed with all sorts off conservatives and pesticides, animals are full of hormones and fish are full of metal.
I think before following all sorts of fancy diets, the important thing is to find a reliable source of organic food. And then just eat balanced, and enjoy!!
 
Yes, organic and local food and a balanced diet is the way to go imo, but be my guest if you want to make yourself a lab-rat for the latest controversial diet :)

Btw teo, hopefully you can find local cooperatives of farmers around your area, this way you directly support producers with little (or no) middle men and big distribution centers getting all the profits and making the whole food industry more unsustainable.
 
burnt said:
The point is no one knows for sure. Its all still being debated. That's why I don't take any diet advise to seriously except common sense stuff.
Click to expand...

That's my point burnt, you can't trust "common sense" (at least what I see what people around me mean by that foodwise)

For a common sens to mean something, I believe it has to be time tested and I'm not talking 40 years. Common sense would be relying on the experiences of tribes and not flawed research (dangers of meat - China study - statistically doubtful ; dangers of saturated fat - The seven countries - data picking to prove the hypothesis).

“The dietary assessment methodology was highly inconsistent across cohorts and thoroughly suspect. In addition, careful examination of the death rates and associations between diet and death rates reveal a massive set of inconsistencies and contradictions. . .
It is almost inconceivable that the Seven Countries study was performed with such scientific abandon. It is also dumbfounding how the NHLBI/AHA alliance ignored such sloppiness in their many "rave reviews" of the study. . .

In summary, the diet-CHD relationship reported for the Seven Countries study cannot be taken seriously by the objective and critical scientist."

– Diet, Blood Cholesterol and Coronary Heart Disease:
A Critical Review of the Literature, Volume 2, November 1991

And yet, in my circles, this is common sense. I'm not saying that the topic isn't contraversial but making common sense of it, is in my opinion like using An Inconvenient Truth for common sense.

polytrip: After not eating it for a while bread (and I loved it before) lost it's appeal and favourite #1 then was just replaced with something else. For instance my favourite childhood foods differ from my favourite childhood foods which differ from my favourite current foods.

End has a good point on the local part but for me the label organic it more or less useless since I don't worry about pesticides/WSamoa (and EU too) is much stricter on the antibiotics and hormone issue/I buy mostly local. And since you mentioned pesticides and organic, wiki to the rescue. Not so sunny. Also is it sustainable on the higher scale ? :)

Everything is controversial so we need to dig.

Keep shining.
 
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