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occasional mapcho/organic tobacco use and health

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jamie said:
Also, how much do you undertand of amerindian culture in relation to tobacco? There is not a whole lot of evidence as far as I know of native american chain smokers, outside of the present situation and some extreme amazonian use. Most tribes seem to have used it for prayer often smudging with it, mouth smoking it to blow over someone without inhaling(you see this in the amazon as well) and then only really inhaling it durring special pipe ceremonies. I dont think native peoples of north america at least were a bunch of chain smokers.

Context is everything, just like with anything else.
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I will admit that i know far less about shamanism than you jamie. But from what i´ve heard, and from what you´re saying, this traditional mapacho use seems completely different than actually smoking and it seems it´s more like how for instance the catholic church uses incense. But if you start actually smoking it..inhaling the smoke, it will just be as carcinogenic as any other plant that´s being burned. People can get cancer from eating burnt food because the same substances in smoke, just burnt organic matter, is in that food. Very frequent exposure to soot will just increase the risk of cancer. When eaten, it will more often be colon cancer. When inhaled, it will more often be lungcancer.
That means that even incense could potentially be carcinogenic when you're exposed to the smoke a LOT. Or when you work in a grill-restaurant, where you inhale BBQ smoke all day, it's the same principle.
 
^ I am actaully not talking about mapacho, I am talking about tobacco as it was used in north america..which is not "mapacho". In south america there are tribes who use tobacco in a psychoactive way all day long.
 
I used a pinch of mapacho last friday in my vapobong with some hashish, this was very smooth and the effects from the tobacco was very strong and nice...

Def a good way to go if inhaling burnt plant matter is out of the question.
 
Honestly, I love mapcho so much. For me it has been an extremely healing herb at times. Mapcho is the sinlge most purgative plant I have ever worked with and whatever toxicity that might come along with the occasional mapcho session is ofset by the cleansing I would think.

I have not worked with it in months but I love the stuff. I cant wait till my plants are bigger. A very very tiny pinch added to a brew is nice also.
 
There is A LOT of peer review research on the benefits of Nicotine. Not only is it anti-fungal but is also anti-inflammatory. It's also been used to treat Parkinson's and Alzheimer's disease. Nicotine is not bad for you but the administration in cigarettes certainly is!!! Commercial cigs contain around 2% nicotine and have 400 additive carcinogenic chemicals, of course that shit is bad for you. Mapacho is around 9% nicotine and also contains harmalas that act as an anti-depressant with the mao-i function. Mapacho has no additives and is used regularly in amazonian tribes as their connection to the spirit world. They use it as a purgative as well to cleanse the digestive organs. They've done studies on cancer with these tribes as well and found NONE. Why? B/c their diet. If you're eating the standard american diet while smoking organic tobacco then you're allowing a good environment for cancer growth. If you're inhaling any type of smoke you can develop lung cancer. But in tradition and how I and many other people practice is cheeking the smoke or just washing the mouth with it instead of inhalation.

Mapacho is a spiritual practice for me. I put intention and prayer into every session as I would with a psychedelic. It's extremely helpful for my mental functioning but I do not smoke everyday or even every other day. I smoke ocassionaly with no pull to abuse it. So don't come back with this whole nicotine addiction bullshit. B/c just like anything in the world, you can create addiction. You gotta get your intent in the right place.
 
polytrip, was your first post a reply to my postings or something else? I'm curious because I don't see anyone, myself included, posting before you with the idea that smoking mapacho is beneficial for one's health. When did that idea pop up for you?

polytrip said:
I think it´s quite naive to think smoking mapacho can be beneficial for your health, or that anything that comes from the south american jungle or that is practiced by shamans is by definition good for you, or at least harmless.
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the south american jungle is the most biodiverse place on the planet. they have loads of medicines in there that we don't even know about. popular psychedelics aside the jungle is a medicinal paradise. there's a reason why most pharmaceuticals come from there. but nothing is by definition good especially with medicine. all medicines have room to be abused or overdosed on. that's why intention is the most important thing when practicing any medicine.
 
I use natural pipe tobacco daily. It is flavored, but with natural things like vanilla extract, rum, etc. I really enjoy it. It helps me to clear my head and focus. I have been doing it regularly for about a year. I quit a few weeks back for a while, I had no intention of how long, but it turned out to be for a couple weeks. I did this to see if there was any addictive pull. I was happy to find there was none! I did want my daily pipe, but I think it was more of a routine thing, as it was not hard to do without. You find me a cigarette smoker who can do that without crawling up the walls, and I'll give you five dollars, sir!

After finding the pipe, cigarette smoking seems pretty gross. It seems to me to be disrespectful to such a powerful plant to do something like mix in a bunch of junk and put it in paper tubes to be consumed multiple times throughout the day. Smoking should be an event, a ritual, not some urge or need.
Here's a good vid on what they do to make cigarettes:
[YOUTUBE]

I really doubt there is much health risk when mouth smoking natural tobacco. The big risk from smoking cigs is the lung cancer. I know some folks develop mouth or throat cancer, but this is far less common than lung, and is less often fatal. My last journey found me smoking my pipe during the time right after the peak, and it certainly had a stabilizing effect. It was perfect, really.

How is the flavor of mapacho? I think I may get some for special ceremonial occasions.
 
interesting thread. little off topic but how do you guys go growing mapacho or any other tabacoo in terms of legality? here in australia it is highly illegal and can carry at least 2 yrs jail and a $50 000 fine ... eeek. how ridicuous when its perfectly legal for the companies to produce masses of it with poisonous additives
 
In the states you're allowed to have your own small patch up to a certain amount of plants. Beyond that you would need a permit or license or whatever. I actually am planning on growing some mapacho next year. I can't wait!!
 
I have 3 tiny plants I started from seed a couple weeks ago..they are not growing much though..I I have them under grow lights with my mimosa trees that do well under these lights so I dunno what is up with that..guess they need to be outdoors. I know they def grow okay outdoors here in the PNW durring the right seasons..

It is not illegal here to grow few plants..
 
I never smoked tobacco my whole life despite the constant social pressures that one is surrounded by, I noticed as i got older it would tend to be certain people and groups that tended towards smoking straights and the same for more natural rolling tobacco like indian spirit etc. i definitely agree that intention and belief are very important factors at play, if you intend to use it for cleansing and healing, by not inhaling and you believe that, in your self and in your culture also, then i think the plant spirits work through those intentions. same for the flipside if your stressed and working hard and smoking heavily as a way of removing stress, and in the back of your mind you feel guilty for it, and your culture subsequently tells you its wrong. then the plant spirits will work through those intentions, its like ying/yang i guess.

i smoked mapacho for the first time last year at the end of a truly incredible ayahuasca ceremony i thought what the heck i'd had my eyes totally opened. and the effects were really powerful, i hadnt purged the whole ceremony, and after 2 tokes without inhaling, less than a minute later a huge wave rushed over my body and i had to dive into the bushes to go and puke out some serious demons at the same time trying to figure out how to get to the toilet to do some more serious purging out the other end. super intense but super cleansing felt like years of blocked up stuff pouring out of me! just from 2 tiny puffs!
 
jamie said:
I have 3 tiny plants I started from seed a couple weeks ago..they are not growing much though..I I have them under grow lights with my mimosa trees that do well under these lights so I dunno what is up with that..guess they need to be outdoors. I know they def grow okay outdoors here in the PNW durring the right seasons..

It is not illegal here to grow few plants..
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Check my mapacho grow log they do grow very slow especially at the beginning.
 
Mr.Peabody said:
You find me a cigarette smoker who can do that without crawling up the walls, and I'll give you five dollars, sir!
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You owe me $5 😁

In all seriousness, that is one of the myths thats perpetuated by smokers (I was just as guilty of this as anyone else). It has to do with the mental aspect of the addiction. Nicotine withdrawl, from a physical standpoint, is very subtle in most users and is completely dependent on the mindset; anyone looking to get off daily cigarette use can actually find that withdrawl enjoyable, as I did. It's a reminder that one has become free from addiction, and contant craving. I talked a bit about this in another thread in the Open Discussion.

I've read this thread and respect ceremonial Mapacho use, but anyone looking to get off cigarettes should either check out that thread in Open Discussion (just search nicotine addiction) or PM me for more info.

Peace and Love,

Electric
 
You are not meant to Inhale Mapacho. This is why the shamans use it all their lives without negative effects. The Nicotine is absorbed through the mucus membranes of the mouth.
Most shamans never recommend inhaling it. Just tape Hape(Rape) if you want a big hit.
 
I actually quit smoking regular cigarettes with using Mapacho for a while. It has completely different effect, far more static and longer duration. Grew my own. I was completely tobacco free for years and then I began using e-cig nicotine for work stress. Now I quit it and grew another batch of Mapacho to help with cravings. I can take it once a while without it getting compulsive addictive feelings unlike with the e-cig nicotine. First time I just smoked it like a regular tobacco but I've become more health orientated so I made some nasal snuff with fine Mapacho powder & calcium hydroxide and water. Dried it after mixing. A gram has lasted over two weeks. One regular cigarette is about 1 gram and normally I would have used 10-20ml of e-cig juice with very strong nicotine concentration which would have cost me around $20 during similar timeframe so using little doses of Mapacho is far more efficient and very cheap. The plant material I got from $5 worth of seeds will last years and also I got huge amount of seeds.

It will also kill thrips and other pest bugs. Most bugs will just die on it's leaves immediately. Great feature if you try to grow organic food without pesticides. My plants were so potent that I had to harvest them periodically because the nicotine was absorbing through skin, I could literally feel the power just by handling them.

That said I do believe it is always somewhat toxic plant, nicotine in itself is thought to be carcinogenic from what I've read. It would be interesting to know if traditional ayahuasca use is protecting the shamans from the cancer because harmala alkaloids are anticancer molecules and I am pretty sure that many traditional shamanic plants have great amount of anticancer substances as well. Even the plant itself has some harmala alkaloids.
 
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