Odd White Ribbon

[23aka32]

Hello,

I'm a new member with possibly an odd question, and I hope I'm posting to the correct forum. I've searched, and can find nothing that addresses my "problem."

After my last extraction (the steps for which I'll post below), about half-way through the evap of Naphtha one of my baking dishes contained a floating ribbon of something white-on-white. Both dishes were filled with solution of saturated-Naphtha that originated from a single extraction, but only one of them contained this floating ribbon. In the other dish are the most beautiful little mounds of crystals I've been able to extract so far. In the "floater-dish" there are no crystals adhering to the bottom of the evap dish, but the solution is very cloudy..

Neither dish is dry yet. At night I move my evap dishes off the seedling mat I use for speeding up the drying process since I can't monitor them while I'm asleep. This morning I found the ribbon in one of the dishes. Moving my dishes back onto the heating mat, the ribbon "dissolved" back into the Naphtha and is now, after re-heating slightly, simply part of the clouded solution.

My question is "what is this stuff?" It looks great except that this morning it was a floating ribbon instead of precipitating crystals as in the other dish. I can't post a picture since, in moving it back onto the seedling mat, the ribbon went back into solution. I'd deeply appreciate anyone's input on what this could be. Below, please find my extraction steps. They were followed to a "T."

In a single container, 160g ACRB powder will be frozen then brought to a boil three times in a minimum of 5%White Vinegar. It will be extracted into 1Gallon of reverse-osmosised water for three hours, six times. Each extraction will be filtered through cloth and a cotton-ball, and reduced to ~1 1/2cup. The reduced extractions will be combined, filtered again through a cotton-ball, and reduced to ~6cups. The combined, filtered extractions will be divided evenly into two 1qt jars that will be warmed and then washed three times with 1/2cup of warmed NPS which will be discarded after agitation and settling. The jars will be cooled, and 85G NaOH will be added to each. Keeping them warm, each jar will be washed three times with 1/2cup of warmed NPS which will be separated, and evaped.

 

[metta-morpheus]

I’m not positive on what it is, but its still good. It’s either polymorphic molecules of dmt in a waxy form, or it could be nmt, as that dosnt crystallize, and will usually leave a tannish waxy residue. I’ve had this many times dealing with acacia. In fact I just dried some out. It turns to powder once dry. Looks like a loogey in the solvent when you swish the solution around.


Also, track your yield. I’ve read it is best to filter before reducing. I’m wondering what filtering after concentrating as much as you did will do to yield.

 

[23aka32]

Thanks for the reply Metta-Morpheus. You described it well - "a loogey in the solvent." It's still there now that it's slightly re-heated, but it's more filament-like. Oddly, there's no precipitation at all in that dish. In the other, fairly identical dish, are many, gorgeous, small mounds of the whitest "powder" I've yet seen.

If it's NMT and won't crystallize, then it must be very clean. Since there's no precipitation at all in that dish, do you suppose the NMT combines with the DMT, keeping it from crystallizing also? I've gotten what I thought was NMT before (since it remained a goo despite its relative purity), and it always had some, maybe tiny, amount of color in it when it was still "wet." The color has seemed to fade during the drying (hardening?) process, producing a pearl-like soft-white, devoid of tint. These strands could/may be somewhat more pure NMT congealing in the Naphtha? That would be great! Odd that it's such a dramatic presence in just one of the dishes.

The extractions were filtered both before and after reductions. After the second filtering and just before basing, there was further reduction from ~9cups to ~6cups. Six gallons total were used for 160g ACRB powder. This produced a lot of fine particles and precipitates (?) that were always returned to the extraction pot after filtering until they were finally discarded. (At the sixth gallon, the extraction was nearly colorless.)

The entire extraction was done pretty hot - 175F to 200F - including the Naphtha washes before and after basing. I wonder if the high heat pulled an exceptional amount of everything out of the powder each time, resulting in a very clean, high yield. The quality is the best I've managed so far, going solely on the looks of the dish-without-the-strands. I haven't tried it yet - still drying.

The yield will be questionable. It always is for me. Lately, I've worked up to ~2% of what I'd formerly thought of as plenty fine. I re-crystallized a goodly portion of my previous efforts and noticed little enough change that it didn't seem worth the loss to the glassware and inevitable operator-error. I'll be as careful as I can, and post the yield. I'm new and not sure how to post pics, but if I can figure it out, I'll post the baking dishes before and after scraping, and the result after drying/hardening.

 

[23aka32]

Here's a couple of pics of the dish containing "a loogey in the solvent" before scraping. The "loogey-enhanced" dish is on the left. The one on the right contains the whitest result I've yet gotten. The second pic is of the bottom of the dishes with the "loogey-dish" on top. The bottom of this dish shows some yellow which seems odd considering both dishes were filled with the solution from the same extractions. The loogey only appeared in that one dish. It may be impossible to see but the "ribbon" of the loogey has fragmented into thousands of very tiny, oblong filaments. I think that if I had not moved the dishes, the ribbon would have remained intact as a discrete concentration much like the mounds of white in the other dish. Due to operator-error, there is a small bit of dark soup underlying one of the white mounds that can be seen in the pic of the bottom of the non-loogey dish. Otherwise, that dish is pure white. I'll scrape the dishes later today, post a pic of the result, and its weight. When time in nigh, I'll report on the effects of the loogey.

Have you tried smoking "loogeys," Metta-Morpheus?

 

[23aka32]

I'm new at this, and fumbling with uploading pics. It seems I can only "attach" the second, "upside-down," pic rather than include it in the body of the post.

 

[metta-morpheus]

Yes, I’ve smoked everything that has come outta my dishes

When it dried out, it turned into a fine powder. Actually cleaner looking than most of the dish, as that pull came with plenty of waxy goods as well. This actually just happened on my first pull on new batch a couple days ago, the loogey thing. I smoked it last night, using my gvg for the first time. Was A-OK!

 

[23aka32]

Here's a pic of the result. The top container (aluminum foil) contains a selection of the purest crystals (240g). I segregated them because I've never had a product like this, and want to see if I find any difference in the whitest crystals and those that aren't quite so bright. In the second "container" (the top of the jar just below it) is a splash of the accumulated, combined product from both dishes. The third container is the storage jar for this extraction.

The "loogey" dried to fragmented, pale yellow crystals. Everything in that dish had a tint. I may have left it too long to dry, and an oxide formed(?). In the other dish, I managed to get a bit of base in the final separation that discolored a portion of the white-on-white crystals as I scraped them out of the baking dish. Originally, I was going to segregate all the whitest crystals, but a bit of based soup was picked up on the razor blade that discolored some of those crystals. So I decided to grab a bit of the whitest crystals and mix everything else together for a later purification with heptane (which I should have in a couple of days - yea EBay!). The "loogey" on drying is so similar to other extractions I've done that I expect it to be roughly the same, and found no reason to keep it separate.

Using high heat with the Naphtha washes seems like a good idea considering what I got from this extraction. I just read, however, that DMT will vaporize ~140F, and my solvent, et al, was much higher than that (~175F to ~200F) and left at temp for extended periods. Oddly, the final weight was more than I've read reported as the total % of DMT in Acacia Confusa. At 2.2%, 160g should have produced a maximum of 3.52g. I got nearly 50% over that so logically the clean-up with Bestine will surely, dramatically reduce the yield. Still, this extraction is at worst on a par with my other recent extractions and, in the case of the white-on-white crystals, better than any I've managed before. At least tentatively, high heat looks to be a pretty good way to go, and the "loogey" appears to be a natural artifact of highly saturated Naphtha.

If you can add to, contradict, or elucidate what I've written Metta-Morpheus I'll be appreciative. Or anyone else who's seen this "loogey in the Naphtha."

 

[metta-morpheus]

So just a few things. I believe you mistyped your final yield, as there is certainly no way you got 240 grams of spice. What was the actual final weight of all collected goods? And I believe 2.2 % is a rather high expected yield for acacia. From what I’ve learned, you may actually get close to 1.5 %, broken down closer to 1% dmt, .5% nmt. The 2.2 sounds like a mimosa yield. And one final thing, I believe that 140 is Celsius, not Fahrenheit. Vapor genies get within the range of 275 and 350 I believe, which is an optimal range for spice. And water boils at 212, so just boiling water would theoretically eliminate the goods at 140 vaporization. But everything sounds like it was a success. It’s good you have your expectations on the conservative side for your re-x. You probably will loose a noticeable amount. But that’s ok. It will be cleaner. Congrats man!

 

[23aka32]

Absolutely I mis-typed 240g! Aieee...! I meant to type "240mg" for the portion of white-on-whitest that I segregated for a taste-test. 240g would do me for me this lifetime! And thank you for setting me straight on 140C. When I "read" it, I thought at the time it didn't sound right. Still, it was on the intertoobz so I figured it was right on some level beyond my ken. Turns out, I was right again -I was indeed dead wrong.

Your figures for Acacia sound reasonable to me. I may have read something similar or mis-added the %s. The 2.2% figure was, probably, a high estimate for the main psycho-actives for Acacia Confusa I came across. I might have remembered that one because it more closely approximated the yields I was getting. It may be that what I've been thinking of as plenty-good DMT is, in fact, loaded to the gills with impurities that are increasing the weight big-time. That could be. The pics are of this last extraction. As soon as possible, I'll wash 2g of it in hot Bestine and see what results.

The total weight I got was 240mg (milligrams) of the segregate white-on-whitest and 3.4g (grams) from the combined dishes. Adding them together (3.4g + 0.24g) gives 3.64g (grams) derived from 160g of powdered Acacia Confusa. I know that's too high, and I feel like an idiot stating it so. In the pics, the 240mg of the segregate white-on-whitest is on the aluminum foil and the 3.4g of combined dishes are in the bottle and splashed into the cap for display. The non-loogey dish contained all the white-on-whitest crystals and more weight (I estimate), but just a tad of based-soup on the razor blade discolored some of it. The result from the loogey-dish seems to have dried into a very pale yellow, even more pale than the slight tint it had in the dishes. It did dry to a hard powder, some had to be chipped off the dish using considerable force. It's not obviously crystalline, but it's not like a hardened resin which I expected, thinking that was a property of NMT.

That there was such a dramatic difference in the two dishes seems remarkable - no white-on-whitest crystals in the loogey-dish, no loogey in the all-white crystals dish. The only difference between the two dishes at that point in the extraction that I can think of is the temperature of the baking-dishes when the saturated Naphtha was poured into them. The all-white crystals dish was thoroughly heated to 150F just before the Naptha was decanted into it. The loogey-dish may not have had time to come up to that temperature. After that, both dishes were evaporated identically, though they did so at different rates. They may have contained slightly different volumes of saturated Naphtha which might account for that, though the consistency of the loogey-dish as it dried seemed more viscous while retaining shards of loogey if left undisturbed.

I really appreciate your response to my question about an odd white ribbon, Metta-Morpheus. I was debating with myself about tossing that entire dish. Obviously, I'm not good at chemistry and fumble-fingered so I tend to err on the side of caution when it comes to ingesting anything I manage to confabulate. That ribbon, floating thickly in the Naphtha, looked like nothing I'd seen before or read about. As usual, I was trying a thing or two differently than before in this extraction and that ribbon alternated between looking mystical and poisonous.

Into the mystic...

 

[23aka32]

An update:

The resulting weight from my recent extractions has been too high for the acknowledged %s of psycho-actives in Acacia Confusa and I’d recently gotten a strange, white mystery-ribbon floating in my saturated Naphtha. To my untrained eye, the result of my recent extractions looked plenty fine, and was a potent, immersive smoke. This last one was partially discolored, I thought, because I’d clumsily scraped up a tiny dot of based-soup along with the white-on-white DMT crystals in the baking-dish I was using for evaporation.

But considering the weight extracted and that odd white ribbon, having only consumed my own extracted DMT and therefore having nothing to compare with, I thought, as astonishing as I’d found my recent efforts, my latest extraction could, maybe, stand a good scrubbing. Hose it down with Bestine and see what the fairy brings. Couldn’t hurt. Beats TV.

So, very gently, I heated 2g from my last extraction (pic below 01) in a small jar in the oven at 150F until it melted into a viscous liquid (pic below 02) while carefully bringing ~1/2cup of Bestine to 160F in a heat-bath (crock-pot). After pouring ~1/4cup of heated-Bestine into the melted-DMT jar (pic below 03), I swirled the slurry vigorously, and then immediately poured the resulting, fairly clear liquid into a baking-dish that I’d heated to 150F. A glob of sludge remained politely in the bottom of the melted-DMT jar. I repeated this with the remaining heated-Bestine. The liquid decanted was still barely translucent.

For a final wash, I poured cold Bestine into the DMT jar and set it inside the heat-bath till it reached a temp of 140F so it would more readily absorb whatever DMT remained in the sludge or on the walls of the jar. As I started to pour the now heated-Bestine into the baking-dish, I noticed it was not clear; it was remarkably cloudy (pic below 04)

After pouring the cloudy, newly heated-Bestine into the baking dish, I repeated the cold wash and subsequent heating twice more with the same, cloudy results. Being whip-lash smart, I jumped to a conclusion and left another wash in the heat-bath for a hour on purpose. The Bestine still seemed a bit cloudy when I poured it off so I did it again for another hour with a bit more Bestine (pic below 05). At this point, my inventory of Bestine and patience ran thin, and I called it good after giving it one more, quick, cold wash that looked transparent (pic below 06).

The baking-dish is sitting on its seedling-mat, infusing the house with its radiant aroma as the Bestine evaporates. There are two pics below of the sludge remaining in the “exhausted” melted-DMT jar; one from the side in a window-sill (pic below 07) and one from above (last pic below).

I’ll update this on weight and sludge when the baking-dish dries. At the very least, in the near future I’ll need to look elsewhere than my psycho-actives for my RDA of dog-hair.

 

[23aka32]

Here's a pic of the baking-dish before it's scraped. The Bestine solution has been drying for two days on a seedling-mat. The part of the baking-dish that is obscured looks nearly identical to that which can be seen. What has remained is a glue-like yellow mass that shows no color unless it's sufficiently concentrated. What doesn't appear yellow is transparent. When I scrape it this afternoon, I expect a substantial loss. It doesn't seem like this gooey remainder will solidify in the near future. I'm sure enough that all the Bestine has evaporated by now, and the goo is the concentrated, clean result of the Bestine wash. How to get it out of the dish efficiently is a question, as is how to store it. Until now I've had crystalline substances to deal with. This yellow goo looks like nothing I've ever seen. The odd, white ribbon may be the cause. It definitely looks clean and killer. Update to come on weight. No impurities are apparant.

 

[23aka32]

Yea! Done! There's a pic attached below that shows the final result of a hot Bestine wash after a hot A/B with a Naphtha wash before basing. The aluminum foil the result sits on weighs 0.33g. The scale reads 2.21g. 2.21g-0.33g = 1.88g. Starting with 2g, my loss was 0.12g. Extrapolating this to include the rest of the 160g extraction that was not washed with Bestine (1.64g), this is still too high a yield, if the measured %s of psycho-actives in ACRB are correct. Yet surely, the only impurities left in the goo are several "dust" specks that must have floated into the baking-dish during drying on the seedling-mat.

A couple of nights ago. I tried some of the clumsily-discolored crystals in my gvp and was very pleased. Last night, I tried some of the white-on-white crystals I segregated from the last extraction, and noticed no difference. Tonight, I'll give the goo a try.

Special thanks to you, Metta-Morpheus, for chiming in. I learned quite a lot from this exercise, stumbled onto more questions, and ended up with some serious-looking goo. Without your input, I'd have very likely tossed the baking-dish in which the odd, white ribbon appeared. Any comments from anyone on this long, strange trip will be appreciated. Especially concerning the final weight of the Bestine wash.

 

[23aka32]

The pic didn't make it (operator-error). Here it is (I hope).

 

[metta-morpheus]

I feel I tend to get that same kinda goo sparkled with transparent crystals when I let the solvent fully evaporate, instead of freeze precipitating. But, if you are familiar with dabs, the little silicone dishes used for that works great for the goo. It even somehow helps it harden up. I’ll scoop my goo into one, and a few days later it will be more of a peanut butter consistency. And I find the best way to use the goo is with changa/enhanced herb. What has your method of smoalking been so far?

 

[23aka32]

In the beginning, I used The Machine. Gods bless Ace Hardware - glass diamond-drills are $7. I kept reading about the Glass Vapor Genie so I bought one and that's what I use now, although I'm not really sure I get a better smoke from it. But, I do like the idea of it being nearly impossible to set fire to the spice in a GVG. (I just ordered another for cannabis use.)

I don't know about dabs. I've been using cannabis for 55 yrs, and growing and concentrating The Devil's Weed whenever circumstances permitted. Any more, I just grow it and use it as whole-plant edibles (sun leaves, water leaves, sugar-leaves, flowers... everything). That seems to work best for me since I can use everything I grow, but dabs seem like they'd be fun. My primitive understanding is that dabs (a dab of concentrate?) are instantly vaporized in some sort of attachment to a bong. I about gave up on vaporizers altogether after buying several, but the GVG, except for its fragility, seems to be the best of the lot.

I don't see any crystals at all in the goo. It looks most like red-honey oil from some fine cannabis. Do you segregate the crystals from the goo somehow?

 

[23aka32]

I gave the goo a try, dropping a hefty glob of it in a GVP filled with copper Chore-Boy clippings. Two hits were sufficient to make me forget a third was even possible. I've dubbed it "Hella-Goo," and hope the Divine Management Team (DMT) on staff here will officially adopt that name for referral to any reasonably purified, unknown, mutant DMT-goo derived from ACRB. MHRB devotees, may Gods have mercy on their deluded souls, will just have to do the best they can to come up with their own name for whatever purulent excrescence they manage to milk from their wretched choice of starting material.

All Hail Hella-Goo!
(Lay Hands On Yourself and Be Healed)

:d

 

[metta-morpheus]

Dabs are indeed a cannabis concentrate, made either with a rosen press or a butane extraction. I actually lean away from them as they kick my ass up and down. Flower is my preference. And with the gvg, it works great for weed, and I even tried a dab in it once, which worked better than a rig(the bong with special attachment). But little silicone dishes that are commonly used for storing dabs, work great for the goo. And no, I don’t, nor do I think I could if I wanted, segregate the crystals from the goo. I just slop it all up and melt into herbs.

And mimosa does have its own “hella-goo”. It’s called jungle spice. It’s a reddish goo as well.

 

[Hyper Turtle]

This goo looks delicious :want:

I've never extracted from acacia, but ended up with goo a few times, with limonene extract from MHRB, when i still used vinegar for backsalting. Usually, i used it for changa as Metta-Morpheus suggested, but the last one i just let sit. it took more than a month to semi solidify in a glass dish. I'll give those silicone dab storage containers a shot next time.

 

[23aka32]

I was just kidding about MHRB. I've used it, too. I knew even less then, and that's saying something. I'll try it again after I finish with the ACRB I have now. It seems like either bark would produce the same result if both extractions were done well. The ease of extraction and yield might be different. But all of what I do with ACRB comes from MHRB extractions so the effort would be the same. And the yield would depend on the %s of psycho-actives in the bark. I'm starting to wonder if those %s are accurate.

For some reason I thought Jungle Spice, from either bark, resulted from extraction processes that included more of the close-to-DMT alkaloids than other processes. Is that so, or does it only refer to MHRB, or is it something else entirely? I confess that, on my roller-coaster learning curve, I often take comfort in the notion that including close-to-DMT alkaloids in an extraction often produces a pleasing, non-poisonous tint. I'm not even sure this is true. If it's not true, then god only knows what I've been smoaking.

But even after the Naphtha washes-before-basing during the extraction and the thorough Bestine washes afterwards, this psychedelic goo is as deeply colored as petrified amber. Is this then Jungle Spice?

How do you suppose this goo could be further purified? Activated charcoal seems like it'd suck up alkaloids like a Hoover. Recrystallizing with Naphtha seems redundant. Purifying a different 2g by other means might be useful. If you, Metta-Morpheus, or anyone else has any ideas, please pass them along. Purifying this further, seeing what's left - crystals or "resin"- might further the bounds of Human knowledge and, possibly, bring on the Revolution.

 

[23aka32]

Homo Trypens, what do you suppose produces it's color and consistency?

Before the Bestine washes, I could see large, distinct mounds of crystals in one of the evap dishes. They were slightly discolored by a dot of based-soup in that dish that I clumsily scraped into the crystals. Even then, even mixed with the paling goo from the other dish, the crystals were distinct well-formed, and seemed to be in the majority. The other dish - the odd, white ribbon dish - produced a pale goo that became paler on drying. But, after the Bestine washes, there are no crystals and a universal discoloration that I would have thought would be left in the jar. The spice is fine. Excellent. And I wonder how it might be purified further.

I never have gotten clear on what back-salting means. I think of saturating a reduced extraction with salt to force the alkaloids into a solvent. But I think it must be something different. Back-salting with vinegar. Is the DMT soluble in acid at that point in the extraction, or does the vinegar suck up garbage for disposal? Was the limonene to make the extraction acidic as in an Acid/Base extraction? It seems like MHRB allows for STB better than Acacia. I've read there's less unwanted components in MHRB.

If a person got crystals from either bark, though, and washed them with hot Bestine would the result lose all crystalline structure, take on color, and become viscous? Is that Jungle Spice?